Marriage and Nominal Christianity (article)

Dave-W

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So...I can pray and believe that God will give me a brand new GT350, a 4 car garage and an unlimited credit line to American Muscle...and God will give it to me? COOL! I'll get right on that!
I have known too many who believe that way. The best response to it came from a 6 year old kid, the son of a deacon at the congregation we were attending back in the 1980s.

The deacon and his wife had been talking about buying a new vehicle as both theirs were rather old. She and children were going to the store one day and a brand new van pulled up next to them. She got out and looked at it and commented she would like something like that van. The owner gets out and starts in "All you gotta do is believe and confess it; and God will give you a brand new van." So the boy pipes up: "Why don't you give us this one, and then you can confess and get another one for yourself?"
 
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Dave-W

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I don't believe it's ever His "will" that people die
Except in His word it is written:

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
 
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LinkH

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So...I can pray and believe that God will give me a brand new GT350, a 4 car garage and an unlimited credit line to American Muscle...and God will give it to me? COOL! I'll get right on that!

Jesus said those words to His disciples after He spent years teaching them. He taught quite a bit about material things, against the love of money, for example. Btw, I'm assuming American Muscle is some kind of hot rod thing, btw.

James says you ask and do not receive because you ask wrongly to fulfill your lusts.

God does answer prayers for our material needs. My wife is a prayer warrior. (To bad we don't have a term like prayer-er in English.) During our years of scraping by in grad school, she prayed for an I-Pad. We helped a Japanese man move when he went back to Japan and he gave me $500 at the airport and asked me to buy my wife an I-Pad so our wives could Facetime each other. On another occasion, my wife misplaced her phone and started praying to get an I-phone so she could use an app as a remote control for a camera she wanted to use for ministry. She thought she might have accidently thrown it away and asked me to help her look in the dumpster at our apartment. In the dumpster was an I-phone 5. It cranked right up. She found a picture on there from someone in the apartment and contacted her about it. The young woman said it had water damage and that my wife could have it.

Once, before moving to grad school in an expensive place where consumer goods are expensive, my shoes broke. The soul cracked in a weird way that would hurt my foot. We had to move everything on an airplane. I managed to find some old shoes to wear to move. But I told the Lord He knew how expensive things were where I was going and I'd be in grad school, and I didn't have a job. So I asked Him to provide me some brand new shoes at a thrift store that were really cheap. So we arrive there, staying in a temporary condo, and one day we were not going to go out apartment shopping. There was a thrift store open certain days next door. I didn't know it, but they weren't supposed to be open that day. I think told my wife I was going to go out and buy those new shoes I prayed for. That's what I was looking for.

I went next door and I saw a box outside of the thrift store with some nice white shoes on top from a distance. I thought to myself, "I think those are my new shoes." As I walked up and saw the brand new shoes, I thought, "I just need to make sure they are ten and a halfs". They were New Balance. Of course, they were. I went in the store and asked the woman behind the counter how much they cost. She said normally, they would be $14, But she was having a sale on shoes and they were $2. She said the man who brought them in said he tried them and didn't like them. He'd brought it another pair that had been sold that had an $80 price tag on them. It's a good thing they were sold because I was carting lots of boxes back and forth between temporary condos until we got a lease on an apartment, and I didn't need more stuff.

Over a months ago, before moving back here, with a PhD, but unemployed, I went to part of an all-night prayer meeting with my wife (a meeting that went on for days). She told me that sister so and so had just given her $400. I prayed in my heart, "Lord, I'd like someone to give me $400."

There was a woman at the meeting who didn't have a car who was there with her teenage son who didn't have school the next day. We went to church together (a different church.) She'd been helping clean our apartment, and I was actually thinking of blessing her with some money. I knew she and her husband didn't have lots of money. After I took her home, she said 'we'd' discussed it and she wanted to give me some money and put $400 into my hand. I thought about turning it down, but when I saw that it was $400, the amount I'd prayed for, I didn't want to reject the Lord's answer to my prayer, and I wanted her and her husband to have the blessing of giving. Of course, we could use the money, too.

I don't care for people asking for tens of millions of dollars to buy airplanes so they can fly around in style as 'King's Kids'. But asking for provision is something we are supposed to do.
 
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Armoured

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One of my friends posted this article on Facebook:
http://www.breakpoint.org/bpcommentaries/entry/13/29037
The premise (if you can't access the link / don't feel like reading it) is that according to the General Social Survey, "Adherence to conservative religious beliefs without attending church regularly is associated with worse family outcomes".
i.e. Christian couples who don't go to church are more likely to divorce than both Christian couples who do go to church and non-Christian couples who don't go to church. (I'm not sure where practitioners of other faiths fit into the picture as I couldn't find the original stats, only those quoted in the article.)
Anyone have any thoughts on why this might be? At the risk of sounding really obnoxious and offending any non-Christians on the board, I would have expected that they would have at least had better outcomes than people who don't have Christian beliefs at all.
Because hypocrisy is a turn off, is the short version, I suspect.
 
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LinkH

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Oh.....RPD....it needs to be a noble thing....you know, like peace within a denomination....or no divisions in churches (you know....the things that I'm certain have been fervently prayed for for millennium). What's the answer for that? Did all those people NOT have enough faith? Does God NOT want unity....even though it seems to be the common thread all throughout the Bible? What is the answer to that?

Some things we have to do ourselves. It does help to pray about them. But we have to put forth effort to obey God as well. I could just lay in bed and pray, "If you want me to get up and do something, cause my body to float of the bed, and cause my arms to work, while I just relax."But I wouldn't be doing my part.

The characters in the movie 'War Room' weren't praying for jets or muscle cars. The woman prayed for her husband. In the process, she was transformed. She became less argumentative. She began to trust God in different areas of her life. Her husband repented in the end. I know a young man whose been into drugs. He apparently gave up some hard stuff several months back, but always held out that weed was okay. He told someone a few days ago,"Your prayers are working." He decided he wants to give up weed and cigarettes as well. He wants to really serve God.

I just get the impression from your post that you might be a bit cynical on the topic of unanswered prayer. Is lack of faith the answer to 'why wasn't this prayer answered?' In a lot of cases, it is. I suspect you will find more testimonies of amazing answers to pray among those who pray diligently believing they will get what they ask for than among those who say, "I tried praying for world peace, but this stuff ever works." There are some mysteries that we don't understand about why certain prayers were answered. We also live in an evil age, and the Bible does teach us some things about the way things are. There is also the fact that 'it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment.' We can pray for healing for people. At some point, the time for that person's death comes. We can pray for everyone in the world to be nice and good, but the Bible also teaches us some things about human nature and how men love darkness rather than light. The Bible also teaches us that we can know that we will receive when we have prayed according to God's will.
 
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Hetta

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For instance.... the entire movie of God is Not Dead suggests that if the two main characters (it's been a long time since I've seen it---I just remember the basic premise) would just have faith, things they ask for (like their car starting) will be granted them (really?). It's like God is presented just like a Genie in a Bottle.
It's the prosperity bible, and therefore not biblical at all.
 
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Larniavc

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Fortunately, I was older and definitely not "pure" when I got married

Me too. I had several long term relationships and worked the kinks out pretty well so that when I met my partner, lived with her for a few years and then got married and had a child we were both as certain as is practicable that we were good together.

Eleven years and we're still very much in love.
 
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Dave-W

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That leads to another problem...the couple has kept themselves "pure" for all this time and then expected to get down and dirty a couple of hours after the wedding. They both have to overcome the thinking that they are defined by their "purity". It's a huge mind game that can send some young people into misery.
I have recently read several articles on the long term negative effects of the "purity" culture in many evangelical churches.

Here is one: Warning - this person ended up losing her faith and became an atheist due to the purity culture problems. So there is some very negative things about christianity here.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejo...ure-and-sexual-dysfunction.html#disqus_thread
 
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Dave-W

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mkgal1

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Except in His word it is written:

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

Btw, I've experienced a car starting after commanding it to start in the name of Jesus.


Great to hear you guys had a car start after you "commanded it to, in the name of Jesus".....but for the rest of us that have lost someone---quite unexpectedly before 'their time'---even after long days of praying and sobbing, that doesn't really ease the grief (or explain things very well).

The verses about death? I've not taken the time to look at the full context of them, but when I said earlier that I don't believe it's God's will that any one dies---I was speaking of physical death (and, obviously, He knew where things were headed even before humanity was created). We live with sin and disease and death, though (and, IMB, that's not God's desire).

We see things in Revelation returned back to where things were in the Garden--and it's my belief that's where His [true] desire is for His creation ("He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever."). In the meantime, and that's what I meant about seeing the good in the awful, there are no resurrections without death preceding them. Isn't that another reoccurring theme in the Bible (new life coming from death)?
 
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