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Many Will Be Deceived

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by John S, May 12, 2011.

  1. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    The Bible says that "many will be deceived".
    Who will be deceived? The deception happens to those people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and NOT nonbelievers.
    Then the next question is - How can this happen? You would think that the people who believe in the word of Jesus Christ would be immune from Satanic deception. Sadly, that is not the case. I even see that deception on these forums.
    How would Satan get people to believe that he could get the antichrist past people who are constantly looking for him? By making them believe that they won't have to worry about him.
    How did Satan do this? He, somehow, got the followers of Jesus Christ, in the early 21st century, to believe that they will be whisked away. In this way they will be able to avoid the hardships to come. He had made them believe that they are "special". They will avoid the trials and tribulations that have befallen all of the other people who believed in Jesus Christ since the days of the Roman Empire.
    Sadly, far too many people believe Satan's deceptions. There WON'T be a Rapture. May 21st will come and go with NO special meaning to it. The next day, that these people choose, will come and go with no special meaning to it.
    The antichrist WILL come. He will do "good" things to make the world a better place. People will love him. They will greatly mourn his death. When he shows his evil face, then the people who expect to be whisked away, will suddenly cry - Oh No.
    Revelations states that, in the end times, the Church of Jesus Christ, will consist of 144,000 men, 12,000 from each of the Tribes of Israel, except for Dan. The reason that Dan is not included in that list, is because the antichrist will come from that Tribe.

    How many minds will be changed because of this thread - probably none.
     
  2. GrannieAnnie

    GrannieAnnie Senior Veteran

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    I think I can honestly say that there is no man or woman on this earth today that I will mourn if they die, except, members of my own family, and they are just ordinary people with no influence on world affairs. So if it is a case of the public being deceived by some person of public influence, then I will not be deceived. I am certainly aware that people talk about the anti Christ and this person will greatly influence the world, so I am especially careful when I look at world and religious leaders, because I do not want to look up to any human being who might seem to have mighty powers, because I do not....ever....want to fall under the influence of the anti Christ.
     
  3. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Ann(ie) - I'm sure that no one on this site wants to fall under the influence of the antichrist. Unfortunately, the Bible says that many will - and I'm NOT dismissing myself either.
    FAR too many people believe that just because they believe in Jesus Christ that they will be immune, or worse, will be Raptured away, from the misery.
    THIS is the purpose of this thread.

    I'm not looking for a world or a religious leader, per se. I'm looking for pretty much of a nobody who is able to accomplish things that no one else is able to accomplish - like a comprehensive Middle East peace treaty. He will then become a somebody.

    In MY opinion, I'm looking for a man from Italy - because that is where I BELIEVE that the Tribe of Dan is. (Genesis Chapter 49) We'll see if this is correct or not.

    BTW - I will turn 59 later this year, so our ages are similar.
     
  4. RobertZ

    RobertZ New Member

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    I grew up in a church that taught the rapture but recently I have come to believe that their is great Bible evidence to suggest that there will be no rapture. The Bible says that if it were possible that the very ELECT of God would be deceived by the antichrist so that makes me think that Gods elect will still be here on this earth during the reign of the antichrist. Also the Bible says that the antichrist was given power to make war with the saints!

    So either-

    A. There is a rapture but their will still be people who are saved after the rapture who are also Gods Elect or-
    B. There is no rapture and Gods present Elect will suffer through the tribulation.
     
  5. RINO 72

    RINO 72 Newbie

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    Somebody needs to tell Chuck Smith
     
  6. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Robert - Well put and nice child.

    RINO - Forgive my ignorance but who is Chuck Smith?
     
  7. Lobo de Rio

    Lobo de Rio Newbie

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  8. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi John,

    Yea, I'm in complete agreement regarding the deception upon the earth even among God's people. The passage that gives me the most assurance that this claim of deception is the truth, is Jesus' conversation with his disciples. In Matthew's gospel account we read:
    Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

    I think a prayerful and careful consideration of that one piece of Scripture reveals much about this subject. First, the subject of those crying out to the Lord are people who called themselves 'christians' while living in this realm. They claim that they drove out demons and performed miracles in his name! So, I know that Jesus wants us to clearly understand that this prophetic warning is to those who have lived or are living in this times of the Gentiles and consider of themselves to be 'christians'. He wants us to know that just hearing people declare the name of Jesus is not the yardstick by which God the Father will bestow upon His children the promised eternal life.

    Secondly, and this addresses a bit of what GrannieAnnie brought up. This is not just a prophetic warning to those living in the end times. There is no time frame, other than the end of the prophecy which will be that great and terrible day of judgment, covered in this warning. All 'christians' throughout the ages since the resurrection of our Lord and Savior and until the day that he appears again to us, are subject to this warning. Even Jesus spoke of those who were right there in front of him that would not taste of death until his return (Matthew 16:28). So, while GrannieAnnie is considering that she will not be decieved by the final Antichrist, I'm confident that it is not that deception that Jesus is warning his followers of in this piece of Scripture.

    Thirdly, and possibly the most important to consider is that Jesus did not preface this warning with, "A few..." or "Some small number of you...". No! Jesus opened this warning with a visual picture of many. Perhaps a rather long line of folks that goes beyond what the naked eye can see in the distance may be pictured here jumping up and shouting above the din of all the others crying out, "Lord, Lord, surely you remember me. My name must be written in your Book of Life. I spent much effort and time of my life driving out demons and prophecying in your name. Oh, please Lord, look again. Run your finger carefully down the pages my name must be there!"

    So many people these days make a great to-do about whether or not you are saved. Asking, "Are you saved? Do you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior?" I have been firmly convicted these last few years that while our assurance of knowing that we know is important, the truly more important question is this: "Has Jesus written your name in the Book of Life?" That my friend is the assurance that I seek.
    For ultimately it really isn't going to matter one whit what we think about ourselves and our condition. The decision of who will receive the promise of God's eternal life and peace is clearly left up to just one person. The Lord Jesus, the Christ. The annointed Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world will also be the one with the final say as to who is able to receive the benefit of his precious work. The prophecy of the Revelation is clear: Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    As I understand it, the day is coming when all men will stand before God in judgment. As each name is read our God and Creator will open the Lamb's Book of Life and run his finger through the pages to discover if that person's name is there. If it is, God is going to say to that man, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Enter into my eternal rest." If that man's name is not in the Book of Life, then God will open the other book, the one in which He has recorded all of our sin and that man will be judged most harshly because he has not believed in God's one and only Son.

    Yes, friend, I, like you, think that a lot of folks who swagger about confident that they 'know' Jesus will be in for a rude awakening and it is even something for those of us who believe we really have the relationship with the Lord that will cause him to write our names in his Book of Life to prayerfully and carefully consider. It is what Paul wrote to us about when he encourages us to not boast in our position before the Lord, but rather with great humility work out our salvation with great fear and trembling, lest we be found unworthy on that great and dreadful day of judgment (Phillipians 2:12).

    God bless,
    In Christ, Ted
     
  9. ashout

    ashout As Tall as Goliath and as fearsome too!

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    the antichrist can fool the elect, but he can't take away their election. they will live forever if its cool.
     
  10. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Sometome - Welcome, I think.
    Was that Muslim? Was that from the Koran?
    WOW - Good Luck with that.
     
  11. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Ted - Thanks.
    What is your position on the Rapture?
     
  12. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi John,

    My position regarding the rapture is just exactly as both Jesus and Paul explained it to us. When God tells the angels that it is time for the harvest Jesus will come first and two will be in the field, one will be taken and the other remain. On that day, just as lightening is seen from the east to the west, we shall all see him in his glorious appearing and the trump of the archangel will sound and with a shout the Lord, my Savior, will call all those who have believed in him and whose names are found in his Book of Life will rise, many from the grave and some living upon the earth at that time. We will rise as a cloud of joyous and grateful believers who have waited patiently and steadfast for that day. Remember that Jesus told us, when we see all these things happening that we were to look up for our salvation draws near. We will have been busy doing the work that God the Father of all those who love His Son has established for us to do since the beginning of the creation, but when we see the Lord and hear the trump we will rise to meet him in the air and be carried off to safety as the wrath of God begins to roll over all of the earth.

    That is what I believe about that day of which both my Lord and my brother Paul foretold to me. Oh, friend, there will be a rapture and it will be a day of great joy for those who are caught up in it and a day of great sorrow, fear and trembling for all those who remain upon he earth. Then, the angels will harvest all of the earth as it is told to us by both Jesus and John.

    In the writings of Matthew and what we account as chapter 13 Jesus tells a parable to the people now known as the parable of the weeds. After telling the people the parable without any explanation to them, Jesus is later in the quiet company of his disciples and he fully explains the true meaning of the parable.
    "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

    Then again John writes to us of the exact same event in the Revelation in what we now understand as chapter 14.
    I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

    Oh, my dear loved one, God's word is true and He has not left us without a testimony of all that is to come upon the earth. Notice in the explanation of John in the Revelation given to him by Jesus' angel what was made known to him by the Father.

    First one looking like the Son of Man comes with his sickle and harvests the righteous from the earth, then a second angel harvests all that remains and throws them into the winepress of the Father's wrath. Read very carefully. There are two who hold sickles. One the Son of Man and if we tie the two accounts together as explaining the same event we know then that those who are harvested by the Son of Man seated on he cloud will receive their reward of righteousness. The second harvest by the angel holding the sharper sickly, (could that be because it will be needed to cut down much much more material?), will be cast into the winepress of God's wrath. This will be after the days of the great tribulation of the Antichrist which will be visited upon both the righteous and the unrighteous. Exactly what Jesus told his disciples privately some 2000 years ago.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  13. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Ted - So you appear to believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture. I guess that I have no problem with that. Since this appears to be pretty far into the future, I won't worry about that, at this time. At present, I am still - possibly naively - on the lookout for the antichrist.
    I guess I probably need to correct my position on the subject. I DON'T believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture - like on the 21st, December of next year, or whenever.
     
  14. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi John,

    Well, I am confident that Jesus' words still stand as true today as they did then, that no man will know the hour or the day of his coming. Yes, I believe the gathering to the Lord will be after the final Antichrist rises up and brings severe persecution upon both the Jew and those who believed the testimony of Jesus. As I understand it, and just to give some sort of human understanding to the unfolding of those events. The final Antichrist is going to rise to power on the earth and seek to destroy all those who believe in God, however, I am not convinced that that destruction is necessarily of the body, although I'm confident that there will be much of that, but consider that we are destroyed, in God's sight, when our faith falters. So, let me digress for just a moment. Those who profess to know God can just as easily be destroyed by the final Antichrist, by accepting and believing that which is false about God, His Son, His Spirit and His word. In other words the 'war against those who have believed in the testimony of Jesus, may not necessarily be a war of guns and swords and bloodshed, but may well be a war for the mind and hearts of men. End of digressing.

    So, the final Antichrist rises to power and brings severe persecution upon the 'church'. At some point, and the Scriptures seem to indicate that this is a period of seven years from the time that the Antichrist comes to power and God rises from His throne in anger with much vengeance and wrath, God is going to proclaim, "Enough!!! The time of my mercy for all mankind has come to an end. Son, go get those whose names you have written in your Book of Life who are destined for the promise of my eternal life." Then we will see the fulfilling of the vision which John had of the harvest of the earth.

    As to the setting of dates and times for Jesus' return. I think those who make such claims have been deceived. Around here we have the billboards of proclaiming May 21, just eight days away, Jesus is coming back. I don't believe that all the prophecies have been fulfilled. Specifically the prophecy that Paul wrote to the early believers about this very thing. He clearly explains that this will not happen until the lawless one is revealed.

    Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

    I find that the CJB says it best:

    But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom. He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God. Don't you remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is restraining, so that he may be revealed in his own time. For already this separating from Torah is at work secretly, but it will be secretly only until he who is restraining is out of the way. Then the one who embodies separation from Torah will be revealed, the one whom the Lord Yeshua will slay with the breath of his mouthd and destroy by the glory of his coming. When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders. He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth that could have saved them. This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie.

    One of the reasons I prefer this particular translation of the text here is that the word 'Apostasy' replaces the word 'rebellion'. Rebellion gives a tone of fighting and violence whereas 'Apostasy' paints a picture of just a quiet hardly noticeable falling away from the truth. The 'world' probably won't even recognize the Apostasy because it doesn't understand or know the truth of God in the first place. Only the elect will likely recognize the Apostasy. I believe that part of Paul's warning to the 'church' is happening now. As we read all of the posts on sites such as these that claim to be about christians for christians, we find such a wide array of beliefs. Some teaching one thing and others teaching another. The days that Paul wrote of to Timothy of a time coming when we will not put up with sound doctrine are definately upon us. Men, women, so many thousands upon thousands of people who have attached themselves to the 'church' are refusing to believe sound doctrine. That being the doctrine of the Scriptures that the first followers of the Christ believed. Today we even have 'christians' proclaiming that Paul is some sort of antichrist. That the message he has written and preached to us is different than what God wants us to know.

    Again, I'm sure some will accuse me, and there are others that understand the Scriptures as I do they are just few and far between these days, that I am somehow arrogant and prideful in what I believe, and that is exactly what the Apostasy will look like. Those who have fallen away from the truth will accuse those who remain steadfast in the truth as believed by Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, Peter, John, et.al, of not 'knowing' the truth. That we haven't kept up with the new knowledge and the new times. That we are foolish to believe ignorant, uneducated long dead men and what they taught over and above the 'new' knowledge and the 'new' understanding of Scripture.

    Friend, I am absolutely confident that we have no better picture of what the child of God living since the day of his resurrection should believe than the man, Paul. Jesus has even commended him as the one who was to take the message of truth to the Gentiles. If there is anyone that a believer today should set as a human example of what we should believe and how we should live, Paul is that example. Even Paul encourages us to follow him as he follows Christ.

    God bless you, brother.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  15. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi Sometime,

    Friend, when you have proclaimed 'Jesus is Lord!' and believed in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will begin to follow the truth.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  16. Darth Bagel

    Darth Bagel Contrarian by nature

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    Indeed, there's no rapture. Paul was using symbolic language that would have been familiar to the recipients of his epistle, using such language he was able to paint an adequate picture of Christ's return.

    The symbolism reflected the ritual of a Roman dignitary arriving to a distant province of the Empire. Whichever town was adjacent to the port that the dignitary arrived in, the population would empty and congregate at the port at which point they would escort the dignitary back to the town. Therefore, Paul's description of events in Thessalonians is describing what will transpire at Christ's return—not a rapture like so many Americans have incorrectly assumed over the last 200 years.

    At Christ's return, indeed we'll greet him in the air and then escort him into his rightful Kingdom. No escapism here. :)
     
  17. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Ted - I believe that the antichrist will establish himself as a person who can get things done - like world peace - in the first 3 and a half years. Then he will be killed. After he rises from the dead, he will be evil personified for 2 and a half years. I'm looking for a man from Italy because I believe that the Tribe of Dan is presently the country of Italy - and NOT an Italian American.
    The 7th year is the Day of our Lord, in which HE will bring about war after war, which leads to the near extermination of mankind. The Russian? army will be miraculously destroyed before they destroy Israel. The Chinese or combined Eastern armies will conquer everything in their path until they reach Armageddon.

    Sometime - I had a problem with a person from this site, preaching to atheists on one of their sites. I have NO idea what you hope to accomplish with your "preaching" on this site. You are NOT going to convert anyone. You will be VERY lucky if people take the time to even respond to you.
    You said that Islam is being poorly portrayed in the media. I won't even deny that. However, what do you expect when far too many Muslims have resorted to terrorism? You are going to get this reaction.
     
  18. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    hi John,

    Yes, the Scriptures do not give us enough information to clearly delineate the events and actions of the final Antichrist. Many have undertaken to study the passage regarding the wound to his head. I remember when the WTC was attacked I entertained an idea that that attack on the 'head' of the financial markets of the world may be seen as fatal, but the markets have recovered and so people stand amazed at the one who was dead and now lives.

    One of the reasons I thought at the time that supported this idea was the very clear and real picture of the wall street markets as being represented as 'beasts'. The bull and the bear. When you stand at the head of wall street there is this rather large statue of a bull depicted as a beast. He seems to be snorting at the crowds that gather and stamping his hooves with his head raised in triumph. And all shall marvel at the beast and the beast shall give him his power. Man, I have to say that in metaphorical language I can find a real connection between the 'beast' that we have planted at the head of wall street to which everyone looks on with amazement at both the statue itself, but also the system which he represents. I can fairly easily envision somewhere down the road a man being called to be ruler over us because he seems to control the power of the 'beast' and the beast gives him his power. Then we read that he has the mark of 666 and the Scriptures explain that this is the mark of man. I ask you, and all those following along, what power on earth that is controlled by man is more powerful than the financial power of those who work and play on wall street. I'm not talking of the regular john does that work on the trading floors, but rather those few and elite men who have great power and authority over the markets.

    Right now today there are some working in the German markets to buy the NYSE. As these exchanges gather together as one over the coming years will there not be some man that is in charge of all the financial markets of the world. Would he not then bear the mark of the beast.

    Ah, just musings of a demented mind, but certainly things to seriously consider in light of world events today. So, all of that to say that while I don't think Christ's return will be in the next few days and probably not in the next year or two, things could quickly become realities that we will be able to begin to put the puzzle of God's prophecies together.

    You see, when God laid out all the prophecies of the coming Messiah to His people Israel, no one could take all the pieces and put them together to come up with the man Jesus. It was not until after he called his disciples and began to teach them all the things that were written about the Messiah that people really began to understand and believe how he had fulfilled the prophecies regarding him, although Phillip seems to have been the first to question, 'could this be the Messiah'? Of course, John the baptist knew who he was but that was through special revelation as he explained to those who would listen that he had been told to expect him. Similarly, we have all these loose puzzle pieces of prophecy that we will see begin to come together in a cohesive picture of one who stands over all the earth in rebellion to God and all that He stands for. I am merely pointing out possibilities that are here today that 'could' fulfill some of those first prophecies regarding the time of the beast and the Antichrist.

    I believe that our Father expects us to be faithful in the work that Jesus has given us to do, but always with an eye towards the fulfillment of these prophecies so that we are not caught unawares. Jesus warned Jerusalem of the coming slaughter at the hands of Rome and many failed to heed the warning signs and died in Jerusalem. I surely do not want to find myself like them. Sudden destruction coming upon the world and I stand unprepared because I have not been watchful.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  19. Sum1sGruj

    Sum1sGruj New Member

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    There's a lot of deception and irony with the whole ordeal in my opinion.

    If Jews end up thinking that a king has come, many Christians may see this as the Antichrist.
    Could this be how the gears start turning?

    And I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and so will others try to say the he was the Antichrist the entire time, and that we have been deceived?
     
  20. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi Maverick,

    You wrote:
    At Christ's return, indeed we'll greet him in the air and then escort him into his rightful Kingdom. No escapism here.

    Ok, let's go with that. What happens to the second angel with the second sharp sickle?

    Am I to understand that your take on this is that Christ will be in the air, but we will stand on the ground waving him down?

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
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