Many missionaries are phony and fake and very damaging

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Hi. I'm from Kazakhstan. Before 1991, almost no Christianity or other religion. Atheism, you know. After independance in 1991 and open borders, finally, a flood of all kinds of religions came in. Some people believed in Christianity, not many. Many-many people believed mostly with immigration purposes, because missionaries were from rich western countries or South Korea.

You know, this topic will be harsh. I want to discuss this. From my experience in Kazakhstan, also from neighboring countries like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and others. I see that. 90% maybe of missionaries, foreign pastors, teachers etc use their position to gain something personally. I only know all kinds of protestant missionaries - so I talk about them.

Money, self-pride, good living, manipulation, getting access to young ladies etc. etc. Very common scheme, they ask money to buy church building, for example, and buy property then resell with profit as our economy crazy booming. They make literally millions. Or they buy property when cheap, maybe wife of missionary, then rent out to International Christian school etc. Some are so obvious frauds, others very good at hiding or pretending, but after a little time you see, you know. Some are obvious work for some secret service like spies.

Proud, arrogant, really double-standard people... Awful!

They love to live separate and to live like king. They love to live in big cities, where it's free and no persecution. They love create a following of Westernophiles and send pictures home of their big "work". They despise local population. They love to live in expensive mansions like kings with servants, to shop in most expensive shops, and to import all household items from their motherlands.

Churches they create, are 1:1 Western model. Traditional people from my country, it's soooooo foreign to them. Soooo different, often offending, not for them. BUT to all those westernized americanized folks strongly leaning to immigration, it's like great introduction to beloved and so sought Western world. Alive foreigners. English language or Korean or whatever. Valentines Day, Haloween Ball, Christmas Party and all, you know. If you manage to get too close to foreigners, you may get "golden ticket" to visit West, or even go away to study, or send your kids to study, or move there to work, or immigrate...

Not all those who end bad, start bad. I've seen some who start very-very well. With full heart, wanting to convert all, doing so much, suffering, day and night. But then, as time goes on, big temptations mount, weak, they fall. Fall really bad. Really bad. And, maybe, environment and example in missionary community is very very corrupting. New ones see conditions of existing, and learn...

I think, all churches must fobid missionaries for good. They only make make local ministers, and quickly leave. No support not even one cent to missionaries - self-support only only, and no give money to local churches never!!! Where money, immediately corruption. I see with my eyes. Very very very ugly.

I think, 10% good not worth 90% bad. Because, ENORMOUS damage being done. People not foolish. All see . All see. Muslims always say, your foreign teachers hypocrites. And Muslims big big difference - you don't see such hypocrisy, happens, but usually very sincere and dedicated - walking the talk. And so almost all converted to Islam, but fey few Christian... Nowadays, mosques on every corner (before - none). Too bad!!! Very big damage to name of Christ. So sad.

P.S. I worked with missionaries and pastors as translater many-many years. So I know very well first-hand.

 

[Tree of Life]

Sad to hear. Have you encountered any genuinely good missionaries?

 

[Goatee]

Yes, every denomination has people in it for the wrong reasons. Greed. Self accomplishment. Human kind has always been the same my friend.

I love the CC but i see it here too.

One must look past the 'few' who make out that the 'whole' is corrupt.

Jesus is our life, our path.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Sad to hear. Have you encountered any genuinely good missionaries?

Yes, of course. Very few. Like I say, maybe 10%. And some you know keep very low profile, like not famous no big church. Maybe working on a job self-suporting. BUT. Has such huge heart, has such humble and sincere faith, than like strong magnet to those who seek God. And they go back to their country, and leave so many believers who are true, and who make new believers. It's like that...

 

[rockytopva]

I have put together a web site in which I hope will reach out as does the missionary.

https://www.youtube.com/rockytopva

For me my experience with Christ is a genuine one in which I like to share with others.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I have put together a web site in which I hope will reach out as does the missionary.

https://www.youtube.com/rockytopva

For me my experience with Christ is a genirune one in which I like to share with others.

Great!

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Yes, every denomination has people in it for the wrong reasons. Greed. Self accomplishment. Human kind has always been the same my friend.

I love the CC but i see it here too.

One must look past the 'few' who make out that the 'whole' is corrupt.

Jesus is our life, our path.

Thing is, not few corrupt. Like, most, what I see... Few few good...

I think, maybe, must be a system to avoid and prevent bad stuff, to make it difficult. Like, big big filter, who to send. And also, control during ministry, full control. Total lack of control opens wide doors to crazy corrupt and sin. No control and full faith that all they hear is truth. Abused, like con artists. They do little little or bad bad stuff, but send videos and photographs, they say lies or big exaggarate, and those sending churches they all believe. They paint very differnt picture from reality. No control, no checking, like do all you want... And get $$$ for that

Sometimes, people from sending churches visit the field, and then, those fakies put up a big show for that time of their visit. I've seen, such a comedy. Theatre. Pharse. Like, all is good, all is clean, and so much doing doing. But then, the guests leave, all go back to old ways. Sick!

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I never imagined such a thing would occur. What would be the impetus to commit to such a project?

Sad to hear you're experiences in this.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I never imagined such a thing would occur. What would be the impetus to commit to such a project?

Sad to hear you're experiences in this.

Thank you for your support. Yes, my heart is hurting. Hurting. I dont know why people are like that. Very hard hearts, like stone. One woman from USA in Kyrgyzstan was having Christian organization, ministry, who help with medicine to sick and disabled. She gave $30/month salary to all local workers for many years. Enough maybe to survive but with always hunger. Then, one time checking guy came from USA. He opened that she reported $300/month for each worker!!! She bought posh apartment, was living rich. Saved many money. She also stole money for medicine, reported she gave very much medicine, but only gave minimum. And coukd be acting harsh, like Nazi person to locals.

My best friend worked there several years. He said, that checking guy was so broken, he cried, a man. A grown up man sobbing like baby!!! He kneeled down to local workers, asking forgiveness. BUT damage was done. They closed office of that organization, no more help to local sick.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hi. I'm from Kazakhstan. Before 1991, almost no Christianity or other religion. Atheism, you know. After independance in 1991 and open borders, finally, a flood of all kinds of religions came in. Some people believed in Christianity, not many. Many-many people believed, mostly with immigration purposes, because missionaries were from rich western countries.

You know, this topic will be harsh. I want to discuss this. From my experience in Kazakhstan, also from neighboring countries like Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and others. I see that. 90% maybe of missionaries, foreign pastors, teachers etc use their position to gain something personally.

Money, self-pride, good living, manipulation, getting access to young ladies etc. etc. Very common scheme, they ask money to buy church building, for example, and buy property then resell as our economy crazy booming. They make literally millions. Or they buy property when cheap, maybe wife of missionary, then rent out to International Christian school etc. Some are so obvious frauds, others very good at hiding or pretending, but after a little time you see, you know. Some are obvious work for some secret service like spies.

They love to live separate and to live like king. They love to live in big cities, where it's free and no persecution. They love create a following of Westernophiles and send pictures home of their big "work". They despise local population. They love to live in expensive mansions like kings with servants, to shop in most expensive shops, and to import all household items from their motherlands.

Not all those who end bad, start bad. I've seen some who start very-very well. With full heart, wanting to convert all, doing so much, suffering, day and night. But then, as time goes on, big temptations mount, weak, they fall. Fall really bad. Really bad. And, maybe, environment and example in missionary community is very very corrupting. New ones see conditions of existing, and learn...

I think, all churches must fobid missionaries for good. They only make make local ministers, and quickly leave. No support not even one cent to missionaries - self-support only only, and no give money to local churches never!!! Where money, immediately corruption. I see with my eyes. Very very very ugly.

I think, 10% good not worth 90% bad. Because, ENORMOUS damage being done. People not foolish. All see . All see. Muslims always say, your foreign teachers hypocrites. And Muslims big big difference - you don't see such hypocrisy, happens, but usually very sincere and dedicated - walking the talk. And so almost all converted to Islam, but fey few Christian... Too bad!!! Very big damage to name of Christ. So sad.

I thank you for what you are saying here, and I think it's important to make people aware of it.

Knowledge is the first step. I honestly wish that your letter(s) could be sent to all the missions boards, supporters, and so on.

But I'd have some concerns. I only know a few priests who have moved to serve as missionaries or who visit missions that have been established, and I really believe they are sincere.

I think of one who describes his life. I think his home is similar to the others, but I know he has a computer, books, etc. to help him in preparing the Liturgy. And he is trying to adjust to the local foods, but it's difficult for him (we also have fairly strict fasting guidelines in our Church, so if he still follows those, he may have need of high-protein vegetable sources, for example). But because of these things, I know he travels to a city to buy some food provisions. It makes me wonder if those things would seem extravagant to those he ministers to? I'm NOT trying to make excuses for anyone doing wrong - I'm very grieved by your story! Such things should not be, and harm the Gospel, as you say. But I do worry if misunderstandings might happen sometimes. I just don't know enough details yet.

I also know of a series of schools/missions that a monk friend of mine went to raise money for and he visited and helped for a few weeks. He had stories, and pictures. But when I read about things changing for visitors, I wondered if that might shake confidence TOO much and make people unwilling to support at all.

You've proposed some good ideas too, I think.

But mostly I want to thank you. I think what you are saying is very important. If it could be used to prevent such problems from ever developing ...

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you for your support. Yes, my heart is hurting. Hurting. I dont know why people are like that. Very hard hearts, like stone. One woman from USA in Kyrgyzstan was having Christian organization, ministry, who help with medicine to sick and disabled. She gave $30/month salary to all local workers for many years. Enough maybe to survive but with always hunger. Then, one time checking guy came from USA. He opened that she reported $300/month for each worker!!! She bought posh apartment, was living rich. Saved many money. She also stole money for medicine, reported she gave very much medicine, but only gave minimum. And was acting often very very harsh, like Nazi person to locals.

My best friend worked there several years. He said, that checking guy was so broken, he cried many days, a man. A grown up man sobbing like baby!!! He kneeled down to local workers, asking forgiveness. BUT damage was done. They closed office of that organization, no more help to local sick.

Heartbreaking ...

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as congregations..

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

In reading at the church of Smyrna, in between persecutions the church would often drift in the wrong direction. I have read back in those times that many compared the church as Noah's Ark, taking in 'all kinds' both clean and unclean.

This is the way it is in all the church congregations, we all have 'all kinds' both clean and unclean. My advice here is to...

Those that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.-1 Timothy 5:20
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. - 2 Timothy 4:2

As you seem one established in a good way you have the authority to set those wrong in a correct way.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; - Philippians 2:15

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I thank you for what you are saying here, and I think it's important to make people aware of it.

Knowledge is the first step. I honestly wish that your letter(s) could be sent to all the missions boards, supporters, and so on.

But I'd have some concerns. I only know a few priests who have moved to serve as missionaries or who visit missions that have been established, and I really believe they are sincere.

I think of one who describes his life. I think his home is similar to the others, but I know he has a computer, books, etc. to help him in preparing the Liturgy. And he is trying to adjust to the local foods, but it's difficult for him (we also have fairly strict fasting guidelines in our Church, so if he still follows those, he may have need of high-protein vegetable sources, for example). But because of these things, I know he travels to a city to buy some food provisions. It makes me wonder if those things would seem extravagant to those he ministers to? I'm NOT trying to make excuses for anyone doing wrong - I'm very grieved by your story! Such things should not be, and harm the Gospel, as you say. But I do worry if misunderstandings might happen sometimes. I just don't know enough details yet.

I also know of a series of schools/missions that a monk friend of mine went to raise money for and he visited and helped for a few weeks. He had stories, and pictures. But when I read about things changing for visitors, I wondered if that might shake confidence TOO much and make people unwilling to support at all.

You've proposed some good ideas too, I think.

But mostly I want to thank you. I think what you are saying is very important. If it could be used to prevent such problems from ever developing ...

Sorry. I make my description very general. Christian. But I talk only about all kind of protestant missionary. I will change my post. I have no direct experience or observation from Orthodox missionary. Not many we have, very very few. We have Orthodox churches and Orthodox believers. I think this church not big on missionarism. It's like nationality, you believe. And so it's shrinking, because people run away to other denominations or to other religions or atheism or simply stop practicing externally, maybe just believe in heart that's it.

BUT historically, Orthodox missionarism in my part of world was exceptional. Very very good. Much faith. No bad story, really, but maybe somtime happened. Maybe because they have a different approach, I really dont know. I know little, but, I think, they are big not only to preach in word, but actually do somthing by yourself, real work with people who suffer, who need help. Like orphans, the hungry, the sick, etc etc

One Orthodox missionary from Russia in my home town from beginning of 20th century, still known and respected locally. He was man from God, no doubt for a second. He was so much praying always, he had books with lists of people he met his whole life, he just prayed-prayed-prayed. When he was executed by Bolsheviks, then they found prayer book in prison, names of all officers who tortured and killed him. Like Jesus on cross!!! Amazing. For his burial, even government said, we will kill you if you come, hole town came out, Christian, Muslim, atheist and walked behind his coffin. The government had to allow. Becuase so much was respect. He was full with love, and helping helpng people. I think, church made him saint recently as martyr.

I never met anyone in my environment like that. Pretty good people, yes, but never SUCH faith in God and complete dedication

 

[brinny]

i'm soooo sorry.

There's a prayer thread for Kazakhstan....continuing to pray for your precious country, and you too (((hug)))

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/pray-for-the-country-of-kazakhstan.7801794/

 

[JackRT]

Sixty years ago I was educated in a Jesuit school. At that time it took seven years to train a Jesuit missionary. They had to become fluent in not just the language but also the religion, the culture and the history of their mission field. They also usually had some other skills like medicine or agriculture that would be useful. I suspect that this sort of training is the exception rather than the rule in much of modern protestant missionizing.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I believe in the seven churches as congregations..

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

In reading at the church of Smyrna, in between persecutions the church would often drift in the wrong direction. I have read back in those times that many compared the church as Noah's Ark, taking in 'all kinds' both clean and unclean.

This is the way it is in all the church congregations, we all have 'all kinds' both clean and unclean. My advice here is to...

Those that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.-1 Timothy 5:20
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. - 2 Timothy 4:2

As you seem one established in a good way you have the authority to set those wrong in a correct way.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; - Philippians 2:15

You know, sometimes local people inform sendnig churches of whats going on. BUT often, or any time I know. Not reacting. Hush hush. Sweep sweep under carpet. Like Mafiosos. Much $$$ Not want risking profit. If they open up and declare, people will stop pouring $$$ Or, just, pretend they don't hear nothing.

One such corrupt fake foreign missionary (doing reaaaly bad stuff) was reported to his churches by a local guy, but they said, you from Satan and this local guy until now is like enemy, like bad guy in church sphere. Though, it's known what this fake does.

I read websites from missionaries or organization from Kazakhstan. Sometimes, I see exagaration or not truth there. I write, I challgenge them. No response, or they argue, saying, they're right. They tend to paint more dramatic picture than in reality. Why? Even as is, situation is dramatic enough. BUT they want to push supportnig people with emotions as much as they can, to milk more money from them.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

i'm soooo sorry.

There's a prayer thread for Kazakhstan....continuing to pray for your precious country, and you too (((hug)))

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/pray-for-the-country-of-kazakhstan.7801794/

Мын да бiр рет Рахмет сiзге = Thank you a thousand and one time to you!!!!!!!

 

[brinny]

Мын да бiр рет Рахмет сiзге = Thank you a thousand and one time to you!!!!!!!

Bless yer heart, and your precious country. Continuing to pray, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God. (((hug)))

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Sixty years ago I was educated in a Jesuit school. At that time it took seven years to train a Jesuit missionary. They had to become fluent in not just the language but also the religion, the culture and the history of their mission field. They also usually had some other skills like medicine or agriculture that would be useful. I suspect that this sort of training is the exception rather than the rule in much of modern protestant missionizing.

This is very wise. You know, I think, these people who come as missionaries. It's really, WHY did they want to come??? Because, you can see, you can see from being around them, they really don't want to do it. They don't care that much. Pretense. WHY they decided to do this to start with? WHY? What really pushed them??? They don't do it from heart. It's like profession, or maybe just happened accidently, or they went into it not really understanding whats in their heart, but then when realized it's not for them, but kind of got stuck in this occupation no proper way out for them without losing face. Or just got used to easy money, easy ways, always being worshiped like gods by locals. Pleasant.

It's like really sad. Dishonesty. If you don't have heart, don't do it. Don't do for wrong reasons, whatever they are. For glory of men, for self deception, or what???

People will suffer, if such half-cooked missionaries come. Souls of people are at stake. I don't know. I wish all were genuine and good, not so. Not so.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

One fact. Missionaries always get stuck in two largest and most Westernized cities with most money - Almaty and Astana. Very rarely in smaller cities. NEVER going to small towns or country side. Never. Why? Why? People everywhere. Why go where already working others and create "stampede" in one place??? Why not go where nobody ever been??????