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Lucid Dreams and Astral Projection satanic?

Discussion in 'Children and Youth Ministry' started by r2d2651, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. r2d2651

    r2d2651 Newbie

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    PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE YOU REPLY THANK YOU!

    I'm really interested in lucid dreaming and I'm doing my best to achieve it the experience is like this:

    You are dreaming,

    You are fully aware you are dreaming,

    You can Fully control your actions in the dream (but they are not limited like the actions in the physical world are for example flying),

    Everything is amazingly realistic. example: Someone had a lucid dream and they picked up a handful of snow they could feel the cold on their hand and could see every single snowflakes detail and the glistening light because of the sun all in a dream the human mind,

    Astral Projection is something I REALLY DO NOT want any part of I've heard astral projection is something like an Out of Body Experience and spirit realm and astral planes and new age spirituality satanic lies and occultic stuff that I want no part of. But I HAVE heard that you can astral project while lucid dreaming and I'm afraid of that. Someone please guide me all help is much appreciated thanks in advance.
     
  2. PaulDavid

    PaulDavid NOOB

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    You are thinking too much.

    Lucid dreaming is simply being aware that you are asleep while you are asleep thus rendering you a sense of control or power. If you want to have a lucid dream you can induce one safely by going to a GNC store and buying a vitamin suppliment called ZMA. It is a vitamin suppliment whose purpose is to help your body stay in deeper stages of sleep longer thus aiding in the rebuilding process if you are a body builder. Unlabeled but well known side effect: Lucid Dreams.

    One word of caution. You may have a nightterror. If you can not handle the possibility of being scared out of your wits in a dream that you "seem" to have difficulty waking out of.. then this would be a pursuit best left alone. If you are an adrenaline junky you will love it.

    Lucid dreams occur naturally from time to time and you can train yourself to have them by modifying your waking thought processes. You have to become more aware of your concious self in order to become more aware of your unconcious self.

    When you wake up in the morning and head to the bathroom make the effort to say to your self "I am standing, I am walking down the hall, I am now picking up my toothbrush.. applying toothpaste." "I am awake" "I am walking to the fridge, I am awake" "I am hugging my grandma, she smells funny, I am awake"

    Make yourself overly aware of your conciousness and your actions and this will lead into habits that bleed over into your unconciousness after a week or so. Then when you dream you will find yourself being more "aware" of your surroundings thus rendering yourself into a lucid state.

    In terms of Astral projections. Just... stop reading about them and you won't do it. Its an occultic method and the more you study its forms the more likely you are to pursue them but its like skinning a deer.. if you don't learn how you can't accidentally do it. So anything you are reading whether out of curiosity or what have you just stop reading it. The Bible tells us to FLEE from sin, not explore it. You know its wrong so don't do it. Just walk away *Best mad max voice* Just.. walk away.

    Cheers,
    PD
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  3. Fishyygirl

    Fishyygirl Junior Member

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    Lucid dreaming is 100% natural. How could anyone think it's satanic?

    I'm not sure about ap though.
     
  4. Kyle Risk

    Kyle Risk Junior Member

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    I think lucid dreaming would only be a sin if you used it for sinful reasons, Such as knowingly murdering or practising adultery in these dreams.
    I lucid dream as a way of release, I find it really lets my creativity flow and I try to use that to glorify God.
    Nowhere in the bible does it say that lucid dreaming is wrong, but dreaming or not, if you knowingly sin you are in the wrong. So by all means try it I guess, get a few more opinions first.
    God bless!
     
  5. beforHim

    beforHim Apologetical

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    All the above people are correct, but I would definitely say be very cautious. I mean, why spend money on some vitamins, when you could be spedning the money on more important stuff? And why have lucid dreams if you think astral projection (which could be really bad) could occur? Why put yourself into such danger? We say "don't drink" not because it's sinful, but because it often leads to sinful and harmful things. IF you think lucid dreaming could lead to sinful and harmful things, THEN don't mess with it.

    I'm not trying to be a kill joy, but definitely don't go into these things with reckless abandon. Cool. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2010
  6. Gilligan7

    Gilligan7 Newbie

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    You should pray about it. If your spirit is troubled by the practice of lucid dreams and what they could possibly lead to, then don't do it. That troubled feeling in your spirit is the Holy Spirit warning you. Also, think about the fact that everything you do, whether it be something mundane like breathing or something more intricate like standing for a cause, is made to serve one of two masters. So ask yourself, "How does lucid dreaming serve the kingdom of God?" if you can't answer that, then don't do it. If you can answer that, just make sure your reasoning lines up with scripture. Just like the others said, the more you study something, the more you are likely to do it. So, I would suggest that you supplement your lucidity training with scripture to guard your heart against demonic influences that may come against you while you are dreaming. Don't become too obsessed with the world of the dream, as Satan could use that to distract you from the reality of God and His works on this earth. In other words, don't lose sight of what's real and the importance thereof. Satan would love to distract you from God any way he can, but remember that you have authority over the principalities and the forces of darkness in Jesus' name. Proverbs 19:23 NAS is a good verse to remember: "The fear of the Lord leads to life, so that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil." Also Philippians 4:8 and Ephesians 6:10-18 are extremely relevant to this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010
  7. Christos Anesti

    Christos Anesti Junior Member

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    I've never thought of there being a good or bad moral quality attached to lucid dreaming in and of itself. Its what you do in your dream that could color it in a negative or positive manner. Myself I used to tend to do a lot of bad stuff and I would often get stopped by what I would call "the dream police" . I used to blow them up with a dragon ball Z kamaya maya wave type thing but then I would wake up right after it happened so the dream police always got there way and kicked me out lol. I think I'm a little more mature now so I wouldn't be as evil in my lucid dreams but as I've gotten older I also have less and less lucid dreams. They are not a big deal really. Just a normal part of dream experience.

    Regarding "astral travel" I really get the impression that it's mostly bunk and self deception in most instance. It sounds to much like things I've experienced in lucid dreams or during sleep paralysis and I know there is no sort of magical spiritual travel involved. Nothing magical or "occult" about it.
     
  8. WandererOfTheWastes

    WandererOfTheWastes witty and/or profound title

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    astral projection is not really any different from lucid dreaming. They're one and the same, except that AP-ing is basically a more deliberate practise that can be done from meditation (and is real hard). Plus it has a cooler sounding name, I guess. Nothing inherently wrong with it. You'll find yourself having the occaisonal OOB experience if you become a regular lucid dreamer, too; just a strange subconscious quirk I guess we have; it's all part of the strangeness and fun that comes with screwing around with dreams. Enjoy it!
     
  9. jesus is love

    jesus is love New Member

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    god is love
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  10. homeofmew

    homeofmew Master Trainer Supporter

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    You really aren't responsible for anything in your dreams.
    Sometimes one knows they are dreaming and can control the outcome to a point.
    But this doesn't always happens anyway.
     
  11. razeontherock

    razeontherock New Member

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    I know people that have had definite and distinct AP. I think you're right for avoiding it. Especially as a believer, your body is the object of war. I have lucid dreams often, and ZMA never brought those on. I think G-d can both talk to us and test us in this medium.
     
  12. bsd31

    bsd31 Newbie

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    "Astral Projection" is often talked about in the Bible, particularly in regards to the prophets. But it is God who controls the separation of the body and the spirit of the people. Why? Because He is the one who is able to reunite them, flawlessly. When someone does it on their own, under their own power they are taking a great risk. But when God is the one leading the way there's nothing wrong with it.
     
  13. peacefulfire

    peacefulfire sparks all around me!

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    I've had lucid dreams before, and most of the time they are very fun. The last one I had however I freaked out that I would be stuck in my mind, and it was a bit nightmarish. But that was the first time that happened. I blame the movie inception :) For me what works is sleeping in. The longer you sleep, the longer your REM cycles will last. So for me, 90% of the time lucid dreams happen on the weekend when I get to sleep in.

    Also, if you find yourself starting to wake up within a dream...spin around! Or jump around! Keep your mind busy so it won't wake up right away. This has worked for me.

    Lastly, there is usually one thing that will wake me up within a dream. For me its looking in a mirror. When I see myself within a dream, I usually look different, and this clues me in and I become lucid within my dream. While awake, start training yourself to look at something specific (mirror, an object, ect...). Then when you dream, you may instinctualy (sp?) look at this same object, and most likely it won't "seem right", and this will clue you in that you're dreaming.

    Good Luck!!
     
  14. 1lobster

    1lobster Newbie

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    Lucid dreaming is very dangerous. I was obsessed with it for around 4 years until this year when I became saved. The very nature of it is sinful because you go into a world where you can be like God where you can manipulate the world around you and do whatever your heart desires. Genesis eve was tempted when satan said you can be like God if you eat from the tree knowing good and evil. It got to the point where I was becoming lucid every day.

    At first it was amazing and the funnest thing ever. After awhile my perception of reality was changing. I noticed that my desires in real life was slowly changing to wanting to be all powerful and hating people... I started hearing voices and thought it wasn't anything serious then strange figures started appearing in my dreams and I could sense somehow that they didn't belong there. They scared me because I had no power over them in my dreams and they told me things but i could never remember what they said when i woke up.

    One time a dream character told me they wanted to show me something and lead me into a barn where a hooded figure with a blank pure black face looked at me and all i could hear was screaming and feeling extreme fear and instantly woke up and almost as if i could sense a demonic presence in my room. These things slowly continued to get worse and i was getting sleep paralysis allot and i would be stuck in my bed and id see figures in my room staring at me and sometimes aproching me trying to scare me.

    The sleep paralysis experiences were getting worse and I was losing control over my dreams and i was fearing sleep and was having problems getting allot of sleep.
    When i was awake id hear my name being called and no one would be there and i had the sense that i was always being watched and followed everywhere i go.

    I went on a out of town job with my boss who is Christian and is an elder in the church my family goes to and through talking allot i decided to become a Christian again but still had no clue that i had demons following me around. I thought i was crazy and lucid dreaming had nothing to do with it. Well it turned out the demons i've acquired from my lucid dreaming obession weren't happy I became Christian and what they did was the biggest wakeup call of my life.

    I got home went into the basement where my room was and i lay down on my bed for litteraly 2 seconds and before i even close my eyes i feel something slam on me and i cant move and i hear screaming and laughing from every direction and everything felt like it was shaking i couldn't breath and i knew without a doubt that i was being attacked by something i couldn't see. I could feel the presents of something on me very powerful pushing me down. Then all i could think of was to call to Jesus and pray then a few seconds after it all stopped and was freaked out and talked to my pastor from the church and prayed and said i want nothing to do with these sins ever again and the voices and hallucinations went away and i felt like something inside of me was removed and a weight on my soul was removed.

    They pretend to be friendly when they first come into your life but they wait for you to reach a low point and start to tell you to kill yourself or do terrible things when your weak. Whenever i would get drunk or do drugs the voices i would hear would get very loud and to the point where i came close to suicide while i was foolish and intoxicated and stopped caring about life.

    I thank Jesus every day for getting my attention and saving me. Without the grace of God i was doomed for death and destruction and became freed from the enemys chains. They didn't just harrase me they controlled my desires leading me to do destructive things to myself and others.

    Please stay away from lucid dreaming. Its dangerous and opens the door to the enemy. The bible says that we first commit sin in our hearts and lucid dreams opens the door to pretty much massing any sin and when we sin we give permission to allow the enemy in.

    God bless you guys and please don't be deceived into demonic arts that can destroy and lead to death.
     
  15. 1lobster

    1lobster Newbie

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    I just want you guys to understand when you become saved the demons you once have never stay away forever. I've had them come back before but they are forced to leave when you don't submit to them. I've had things starting to talk to me again and tempt me and various things but i never let them in so they could never regain control over my life and desires. Its always good to pray and make sure to confess daily sins we have to God to make sure we are not holding onto something that can let them in.

    The enemy has authority over humans but God has authority over all so when we belong to Jesus we can have faith that we are save from being possessed and manipulated. They can approach us and tempt us with various things but cannot live in us unless we submit to sin. The bible says resist satan and he will flee.
     
  16. razeontherock

    razeontherock New Member

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    NO. There is a definite line that can be crossed between a mere lucid dream (all seem to argue this is ok) vs AP. Granted, most that dabble with AP get nowhere, but some DO. With very real consequences!

    The OP's concern with this line of distinction is warranted.

    And to 1Lobster: welcome and wow! What a testimony!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2011
  17. andreha

    andreha Senior Contributor

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    I prefer to keep it simple. Before going to bed, ask the Lord to keep you safe from all evil while you sleep - and you'll be just fine.
     
  18. Jonathan95

    Jonathan95 Veteran

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    Don't try to go into the Astral realm, that's where demons, evil forces are working and good angels.

    Here's a testimony about a guy that were once a Devil worshipper, but turned Christian, he tells how he would attack churches with Satanic forces and other Satanic people in the Astral world (astral travelling):

    Combat in the Heavenly Realm
     
  19. Garthman33

    Garthman33 Newbie

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    I have had VERY similar experiences to 1Lobster regarding lucid dreaming and stuff. I played with an ouija board when I was 14 (before I was saved) and invited spirits to communicate with me. Nothing happened right away but within a few months after doing that I started experiencing astral projections on a nightly basis, plus gaining lucidity in my dreams without trying. I honestly could not control it and sometimes still can't (24 years old now). When I first started to get pulled (influenced by demons) into lucid dreaming and astral projection it would usually start off with a lucid dream that would eventually lead me into an astral projection. Other times I would just come straight out of my body from the sleep paralysis stage. Like I said I did not control this and it scared me at first because my inner being would shake uncontrollably and occasionally I would hear screams and voices while the shaking would intensify. If I let this shaking continue to grow, eventually an aura that can only be described as eternal hopelessness/fear would fill my room. So obviously I would get scared and try and stop it myself from experiencing this. I eventually learned from this psychic woman to not let the noises and feelings scare me as they were "natural" and to just let the process happen. And so I followed her advice like an idiot. The following is what usually happened when I would experience astral projection: After about 5 minutes of laying in bed, my inner being would start shaking violentally and if I let the shaking and voices around me pass, usually I would be out of my body within 30 seconds at the most. When the scary stuff chilled out I would feel a calmness sweep over me and then I could see my surrounding room even though my eyes physical eyes were still closed. At that point I could just get up out of my body where I was then free to roam around and do whatever I wanted. This was a mindblowing and exciting thing so I became hooked with astral projection. It was a rush at first and I had a lot of fun doing it, but eventually things got reall strange. So strange that I began to question that astral projection may be demonic in nature, so I began thinking that if demons are real then Christianity could be real afterall. For example whenever a projection would begin there were entities or a spiritual presence around and they would just try let me have an enjoyable experience. But whenever I started contemplating the idea of Christianity being true the whole vibe started to change. When I would snap out of an astral projection I would open my eyes to see shadowy figures moving away from my bed and my dog would be barking at the wall. I would feel a fear so terrifying that it went beyond death. It was like spiritual fear, way more horrifying than anything that phsyical fear could produce. It was like my soul was vulnerable. Things started to get hostile so I stopped wanting to do astral projection and switched my focus on attaining dream lucidty instead and stayed away from the astral realm. According to what others had told me I thought lucid dreaming was safe as long as I stayed in control but that was wrong as well . Whenever I would become lucid I found that the dreams would become demonically hijacked and I would get tempted to do sexual things in them. Other times the dream would end with them pushing my head under water or in death or something like that. They also began trying to implant thoughts into my head that I should kill myself which almost worked (I was hooked on drugs and compltely depressed at that time in my life). Things even started happening in everyday life, outside of the astral and dream world. My roomates said they kept seeing ghostlike figures in our apartment, my radio player would turn on in the middle of the night playing demonic death metal, I would see figures and there would also be a lingering depressing presence around. My thoughts of suicide intensified as well and it got to the point where even other people saw a change in my attitude and thought I was being oppressed by demons. Instead of seeking Christ right away I just went and did more drugs, but ultimately this all led me to seek out Christ who began showing me signs of his existence throughout the years that all of this was going on. The night before I surrendered to Christ I was at my lowest point ready to give up. I had a lucid dream that night and a black shadow figure came over me and said something in a language I couldn't understand. I kind of went out of body within that dream and saw myself holding a gun to my head and killing myself. THe next day I was pretty much at the tipping point of ending it all and the Holy Spirit completely just took over and got me to surrender my life to Him and stop the drugs and occultic behavior. So to sum it up I would STAY AWAY from lucid dreaming and astral projection because even though they may seem okay and fun, it is nothing but DECEPTION. I regret it big time, because I have been saved for two years (baptized by the Holy Spirit as well) and I still have to fight against these supernatural forces on almost a nightly basis. Even last night I was being targeted like crazy to come out of my body but tHankfully now I can claim the blood of Jesus to stop it. But that doesn't mean they won't harrass and try to get me to fall back into my old habits of going astral or trying to lucid dream. One time they even imitated the Holy Spirit and convinved me to astrally project and eventually I realized it was a trap. I pray that ya'll will not fall for this stuff, I say this from nearly 10 years of experience. Don’t let something that sounds “fun and innocent” decieve you into a position that you will cause you to pray every single day to be delivered from.. IT’S NOT WORTH IT
     
  20. APmaster

    APmaster Newbie

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    It seems that there are many misconceptions about Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection floating around this thread.. For one, there is absolutely nothing wrong with LD because although you are aware that you are dreaming, your subconscious mind still throws things into your dreams to tell you about yourself and what may be bothering you, which is why God designed us to have dreams in the first place; to keep us sane. For some people, Including myself, it happens naturally, and is entirely dependent on your own mind. If you have fear of Lucid Dreaming while you are in one, then guess what; that dream is going to instill fear in your mind, and it's going to seem like a nightmare, which some would perceive to be 'demonic.' This isn't to say that possession can't occur during sleep, but it definitely can't happen if you are in touch with the lord and/or archangels.

    The same goes for Astral Projection. Although it is slightly more dangerous, you have nothing to fear so long as you take precaution. If you go with God for the sake of enlightenment, you have nothing to fear. Demonic beings really only linger in the planes of lower vibrations. This means that all you have to do is summon the feelings of love in order to bring yourself higher. Should you encounter evil beings (which can happen from time to time), if throwing spiritual attacks of love don't work, all you need to do is call on the Archangel Michael, or any other angels that may be around to bail you out. This is, after all, what they're there for; they're basically the Astral Police. People have been doing this for aeons, and not once has anybody been told by an angel to 'stay away'. Humans, by no means, have to Astral Project, and can lead perfectly normal lives without ever doing so, but this does not mean that it should be completely shunned and demonized for those who may have the gift to do so easily or are just plain curious, solely because some inexperienced people were careless. The only reason people have such negative experiences with this is because their energies are vibrating on a lower plain of existence, and they had not given their anxieties about it completely to God. This can be due to a number of reasons, including drug use, loss of will to live, accepting evil into your lifestyle,etc. Many things can help counteract this; prayer (most of all), singing, exercise, good nutrition, etc. Just overall wellbeing. Think of the pursuit of Astral Projection as a hunting experience. When you hunt, there is much to be attained if it is for a purpose. If you require the meat for food, the bones for tools, and the fur for warmth, then it is for a worthy cause. However, if you're just going in shooting animals blindly for the sake of fun with no prior experience, well then you're bound to get attacked and probably get your eye shot out. This same perspective applies to Astral Projection. There are many spiritual reasons why one would pursue Astral Projection (I'm not going to list them because we would be here a while), so saying that it is something to be feared is, in my opinion, a statement of pure ignorance. The saying is true; people fear what they do not understand.
    To all those who fear Astral Projection, it is obviously not for you by any means, as demonic spirits feed off of this sort of negative energy. However, those who are curious and want to pursue this sort of endeavor in the name of our Lord and Savior for the sake of attaining spiritual knowledge, there is nothing wrong with this, so long as you understand the risks and take necessary precautions. Do your research, pray on what you learn to affirm that what you are learning is Godly, and you will be just fine. Nothing is going to 'cut your spiritual tether' to your body, because we're simply not designed that way. After all, there is a reason we are able to do this in the first place. ;)
    Anyways, happy travels!
     
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