Loss of Salvation Question

FreeGrace2

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The verse is quite clear, unless you don't believe what it says, then it is quite confusing.
Sure, it's clear to me. But it seems you ignored what I posted:
"It seems folks around here think they can sin or do evil and be rewarded with entering God's Kingdom."

We will judged for our actions on earth. Those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life.
Well, thanks for your view. Which directly contradicts everything else in Scripture about how to have eternal life. But thanks anyway.
 
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FreeGrace2

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We can't please God without the free gift of his grace.
First, Heb 11:6 says this about pleasing God:
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Second, God's grace is NEVER described as a gift. The Bible does, however, describe a "free gift":
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

So your statement contains a lot of error.
 
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Thursday

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First, Heb 11:6 says this about pleasing God:
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Second, God's grace is NEVER described as a gift. The Bible does, however, describe a "free gift":
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

So your statement contains a lot of error.


Eph 2:8
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
 
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bcbsr

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We can't please God without the free gift of his grace. We are powerless without him. However, with him we can do anything. We must strive for holiness, and when we fall, we must confess our sins.

I take it what you mean is "We must strive for holiness in order to be saved". This as opposed to the gospel Paul preached whereby one is saved APART FROM WORKS, and strives for holiness as one who is eternally secure in his salvation. A salvation attained by faith alone apart from works.

Seems what you're saying is that God enables us to be justified by law, contrary to the gospel.
 
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Thursday

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Well, thanks for your view. Which directly contradicts everything else in Scripture about how to have eternal life. But thanks anyway.

My view:
We will judged for our actions on earth. Those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life.

Scriptural view:
Romans 2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life
 
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Thursday

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I take it what you mean is "We must strive for holiness in order to be saved". This as opposed to the gospel Paul preached whereby one is saved APART FROM WORKS, and strives for holiness as one who is eternally secure in his salvation. A salvation attained by faith alone apart from works.

Seems what you're saying is that God enables us to be justified by law, contrary to the gospel.


You are confusing obedience to Jesus with adherence to the Old Covenant.

1 Cor 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
 
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bcbsr

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Eph 2:8
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

Salvation from hell fire can only be spoken of in the past tense as in Eph 2:8 if it is guaranteed (That is, eternal security is in place). Otherwise the rhetoric would be more like - you have the possibility of being saved from hell fire if you end up being a good enough Christian - as is the rhetoric of the Neo-Circumcision.
 
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bcbsr

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You are confusing obedience to Jesus with adherence to the Old Covenant.

1 Cor 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

As I have said many times, those who have been born of God do keep his commands. They keep his commands not in order to be saved, as the Neo-Circumcision propose in their salvation by works gospel, but rather they do so because of the nature of regeneration. For "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

"And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:3,4

If you don't believe and consequently have not been born of God, this is not the case for you.
 
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Thursday

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Salvation from hell fire can only be spoken of in the past tense as in Eph 2:8 if it is guaranteed (That is, eternal security is in place). Otherwise the rhetoric would be more like - you have the possibility of being saved from hell fire if you end up being a good enough Christian - as is the rhetoric of the Neo-Circumcision.


Only those who endure will be saved.

Matt 24:13
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains.
 
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Thursday

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As I have said many times, those who have been born of God do keep his commands. They keep his commands not in order to be saved, as the Neo-Circumcision propose in their salvation by works gospel, but rather they do so because of the nature of regeneration. For "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

"And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:3,4

If you don't believe and consequently have not been born of God, this is not the case for you.

Are you saying that you never sin?
 
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bcbsr

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Only those who endure will be saved.

Matt 24:13
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains.

Those who have been born of God do persevere to the end. And as I noted according to 1John 3:9 they don't deliberately go on sinning. So you've added nothing to your argument against the gospel I preach.
 
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DingDing

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Those who have been born of God do persevere to the end. And as I noted according to 1John 3:9 they don't deliberately go on sinning. So you've added nothing to your argument against the gospel I preach.

What has been born can die.
 
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bcbsr

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What has been born can die.

If you want to play with analogies then try this out. Death occurs but once, as does birth. Physical birth is unrepeatable. It occurs once, so also with physical death. So also with the spirtual.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Those born of God have died to the law and live to Christ

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Rom 7:4-6

"we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus." Rom 6:11

Thus those born of God have died to sin and consequently can die no more, in the same way as Christ could die no more, I reckon.

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." Gal 2:20

Ro 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him

You want a trustworthy statement? "Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him" 2Ti 2:11

Do you agree, or not?
 
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Thursday

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Again, I am saying that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

You must not understand what John is saying.

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
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Thursday

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So what does this verse indicate to be the gift?


Grace is the gift.

God gives us the grace that enables us to believe and to follow his commandments.

However, scripture also tells us that sin can shipwreck our faith.
 
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bcbsr

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You must not understand what John is saying.

1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You must not understand what I am saying.
 
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bcbsr

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Grace is the gift.

God gives us the grace that enables us to believe and to follow his commandments.

However, scripture also tells us that sin can shipwreck our faith.

Grammatically incorrect.

Roberston notes, "And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pistiv (faith) (feminine) or to cariv (grace) (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (dwron) and not the result of our work."
 
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