Looking For Evangelism Thoughts

jbearnolimits

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I am putting together a new section on my website all about evangelism. I want to train people how to win people to Christ. So I was wondering if you all could give me your thoughts on evangelism. What makes it hard to do? What could make it easier? How could your church provide ways to help you get involved in it? These are the type of things I wonder about.
 

BryanW92

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I am putting together a new section on my website all about evangelism. I want to train people how to win people to Christ. So I was wondering if you all could give me your thoughts on evangelism. What makes it hard to do? What could make it easier? How could your church provide ways to help you get involved in it? These are the type of things I wonder about.

The main rules are:

Evangelism is not a sales pitch.
You are not a salesman.
You don't have to "close the deal".

Just be friendly. Be kind. Be helpful. Be joyous. Tell people why.

Again...you don't have to "close the deal". Nothing kills the Spirit like someone who acts like a car salesman: "Soooo buddy. What's it gonna take to get you to accept Christ TODAY?"
 
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YeshuaIsLord

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Obviously at the heart of evangelism is the message of the gospel, which means good news, and that is what we bring to people, the good news of what Christ has done.

The kingdom of God is described like a seed, essentially an evangelist is the seed planter.

1cor 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1cor 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

A key point to remember is it's the Holy Spirit that convicts people of their sin.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.

It's important to remember, it's not about trying to convince people, it's about sewing that good seed, if they respond straight away then praise God, make sure they receive water, if not however worst thing is to be pushy, bless them and know when to stop, it is essential to be filled with the Spirit as he will guide you.

Even if they don't respond, it might take years and some other person might water that seed and they put their trust in Christ, so don't always expect instant conversions.

I personally had an experience where I was that excited about things of God, I had a friend who got himself into quite a mess, and started frequently coming to my house to talk, I just spoke about God and how good he is, gave him a bible one day, and roughly 3 months later he came and told me he has put his trust in Christ, I didn't even realise I evangelised, and my point is, it has to be natural and spirit led.

Be prepared for spiritual warfare, evangelists are essentially going into enemy territory, so understanding the armour of God and walking in Spirit is essential as this is the root of where resistance will come from.
 
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DerSchweik

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I am putting together a new section on my website all about evangelism. I want to train people how to win people to Christ. So I was wondering if you all could give me your thoughts on evangelism. What makes it hard to do? What could make it easier? How could your church provide ways to help you get involved in it? These are the type of things I wonder about.
Imho evangelism becomes difficult when we approach it with ulterior motives.

As a young man (before I became a Christian), I always struggled with girls; shy, embarrassed, awkward, clumsy... ineffective because I always approached them (consciously or not) with an ulterior motive (guys, be honest..). When I became a Christian and started dating sisters in Christ, all that changed. I did not have the ulterior motive I had in the past. Consequently, I dated a lot; I had a lot of fun and those whom I dated had fun as well. There was no clumsiness, no awkwardness, no embarrassment... no ulterior motive, save to have fun, encourage, to uplift the person I was dating.

Peter said it this way:
"...sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence" (I Pet 3:15)
One simply cannot evangelize others if Christ is not sanctified in their hearts - set apart - as Lord. There can be no ulterior motives in evangelism. We cannot do it to meet some quota set for us by others, or by ourselves for that matter.

I like how Bryan put it:
BryanW92 said:
Evangelism is not a sales pitch.
You are not a salesman.
You don't have to "close the deal".

Second, we need to be living the life; in the world but not of the world. The hope that is in us needs to be apparent, but it can only be apparent if Christ is indeed our Lord. He can't be our friend (though He is); He can't be our companion (though He is); He needs to be our LORD. Our hearts must not be divided between Him and something else.

If we are living the life, if we do indeed possess a hope in Him, we will naturally want to share the hope that is within us - and people will approach us, wanting to know what that hope is. They will see no ulterior motives, no inconsistencies with how we live our lives and who we claim to be.

Third, we need to be prepared. We need to ask ourselves,
"Why am I a Christian?"
"What - exactly - IS my testimony?"
"What - exactly - HAS Christ done for/to me?"
"Why did I respond to Him as I did?"
"Why do I live as I do?"
"Why do I talk and behave as I do?" And,
"Is all that any different from how others walk, talk, and behave around me?"

"Why is the gospel 'good news' to me?"

Write it down if you must. Repeat the answers until they are clear in your mind and roll off your tongue easily, naturally, and honestly. Because if you can't articulate it, you probably don't really know it.

It wouldn't hurt to know the old testament either, and what it says about Jesus. Jesus, when explaining Himself to His own disciples did so from the old testament. Stephen, when defending himself, did so with a recounting of Israel's history and how that culminated in Jesus. Paul defended himself with old testament prophesies and stories that explained Jesus.

We need to throw away our religiousity and smarmy piety and live honestly, like real people. We need to throw out all our "Christian-ese" and all the cliche'd, cutesy, pithy "John 3:16s" and "Jesus loves yous" one-liners (you know what I'm talking about) and remember what it took to persuade us to Christ.

Finally, we need to be in prayer constantly. We need to believe our own doctrines, that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves and realize that if that's true, then there's nothing we can do to save those around us either. We need His help, His Spirit, His power to be effective evangelists, as much as we needed it to be saved ourselves.
 
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alex2165

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Jbearnolimits, you received many good and practical advises and I do not know what else can be adding to everything that already has been said here.

But because you want to use your Web Site as a springboard to propagate Evangeline of Christ, I think it should be very practical and efficient site for the people to navigate and to learn from.

I actually have the same idea for a while to create a special Evangelical web site. I do not have my own website at the moment, but I had one before, and it was on MicroSoft server. Some time ago MS offered free and paying web spaces and I took the free option. But after a short time MS decided to close all of its options concerning its free and paying web sites, and I lost quite a large amount of good stuff, and of course a lot of work hours as spent to create it. But I always have my back ups.

So my idea of the good web site is to be simple, easy to use, easy to navigate, no any fancy unnecessary and pretty stuff or some special effect which requires a long script and will slow down the user’s computer and will make your web site slow to navigate.

Concerning the context, it all depends how you imagine it. Again, my idea is to make it very useful, very efficient, and practical as possible. And the best way to do it in my point of view is to divide it on certain section, and each section will cover a certain topic or theme.

For example, one section will be dedicated to the atheists, another section for the beginners in Christ, another section for advanced, and another section for the experts and scholars. This is actually how I image my future web site.

All these section will have one thing in common, they all will be contain most asking question, most debated subjects, and most hot topics of today’s discussions and arguments, and each of them will have the quotes from the Bible with short explanations as the answers to each particular subject, issue, or theme.

It has to be organized very well in order for the user to find very quickly a subject of interest and to receive immediate reply and answer on it without clicking the mouse or changing pages.

Everything has to be in its own designated place, the question or topic, the quotes from the Bible, and short comments and explanations, all in one place on each specified subject, so the user will see everything at once.

In the same way I actually working on mine Bible Study Program now, which then finished I will place it on my future web site.
 
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tremble

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I think it takes a genuine desire to want to spread the message of Jesus. When a person has that desire then they will find a way to do it. One of those ways is by distributing Christian literature on the streets.

Sometimes people feel inspired to do this but they feel self conscious or afraid. That's why it's good to find a partner to work with. Two people distributing Christian literature together on the street can support one another emotionally. Float the idea to your Christian circle of friends or try to organize something within your church congregation.

The benefits of written literature is that people can take these tracts with them and read it at their own pace. They can spend more time on one page than they do on another or they can re-read it if they want. They can pass the tract on to others and those others will get the exact same message with no alterations. This is not an option with vocal preaching.

Another obstacle to overcome with literature distribution is the fear of rejection. Approaching random strangers can be a daunting task, but it is part of evangelism. If you have a tract in your hand then it becomes a little bit easier because you have something to focus the person's attention on, rather than on yourself.

You could approach someone and say, "Hey, how are you? My name is George and I have a story here which I thought may bring a smile to you today. It's about (subject of tract)". There are thousands of ways to approach people and as you practice you will get better at it and become more confident.

There will always be a greater percentage of people who will not be interested. Some will simply say, "no thanks" while others may be more aggressive in their rejection. Don't take it personally. Maybe that person is having a bad day or maybe they are in a hurry or maybe they are upset with religion in general. There could be many reasons why they do not accept your tract at that time. Learn to accept rejection as a part of the job and move on to the next person. Don't take it personally. If you are nice about it, maybe the next time you see them they will express an interest.

Distributing tracts also presents two main options; quantity s quality. Some people feel the message in the tracts is meant to do the preaching for us so they quickly move from person to person trying to sow as many seeds as possible, while others feel that taking a bit of time to talk to people as well as give them the tract is a better approach. Sometimes it's possible to have some really good discussions with people by using the tract as an introduction to the topic. It's good to experiment with both options.

On the other hand, sometimes people may want to argue with you. Sometimes it is tempting to argue but try to avoid that by learning to quickly see when a person is not really interested in what you have to offer and move on to the next person. Otherwise, you could find that an hour has passed and all you've succeeded in doing is making yourself frustrated!

Selecting a topic is also important. Find a topic which inspires you so that when rejection comes you have a reason to continue. Remind yourself that you are promoting a message which you believe in deeply and you will find the strength to carry on.

You can create your own tract or find something ready-made online. Try to make the message clear and "to the point". There are lots of Christian comics you can find online and print onto folded A4 paper or other various sizes. Comics are good because they communicate a message quickly with not so much reading time.

Set yourself some goals before you head out so you have something to aim for. Make the goals realistic and achievable. For example you could set a time limit for the distributing or a fixed number of tracts. This way, you will not have a feeling of aimlessness while you are out and you will be inspired to push just a bit more if you are close to your goal but feel like quitting early.

Set rewards for yourself if you achieve your goal. The rewards can be anything like special food treats or entertainment or whatever you think will motivate you.

Choose a good location. A busy place provides the most opportunity for reaching many people but it really depends on what you want to achieve. Some people may prefer a more relaxed pace at a park enjoying the atmosphere while they work. Others may prefer a busy street with many people walking back and forth. Other options include shopping centre parking lots, fast food restaurants or public events like concerts, protests, parades, or any other situation where people gather together.

If you feel self conscious about people you know seeing you distributing in an area close to where you live, go further afield to where you are less likely to be recognized, at least until you gain a bit more confidence.

And finally, before going out, pray. Pray for patience and protection. Pray to find labourers as Jesus said. Pray for perseverance and pray for whatever else you feel it will take to get the job done. Pray before going out and continue praying throughout the day as you work.
 
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Bramwell

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Lots of good advice being shared here. I agree that praying before we go out to witness is very important if we want to be effective. Before we seek to lead others into a deeper relationship with God, it's important to first make sure we are in tune with the Father ourselves!

I thought the advice about being friendly and cheerful were quite sound as well. Regardless of what theory we want to communicate, people usually judge our spirit more than our doctrines. In other words, we want to let the fruits of the spirit (peace, love, joy) shine when we go out to witness about Christ. In many ways our non-verbal communication is just as important as our words when trying to win souls for Christ.

Finally, I liked the point about keeping the message specific to the "good news". Sometimes asking a person about their day (or sharing about your own) can be a good opening to sharing about the fundamentals of the gospel. This can be done verbally, or as Tremble has suggested, through mediums like books and DVDs. (I often find that a meaningful chat can be a good starting point; if you have a book or DVD to leave with the person after you go, it gives them an opportunity to further explore what you shared with them on their own time.)

Best of luck with your evangelism!
 
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thesunisout

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I am putting together a new section on my website all about evangelism. I want to train people how to win people to Christ. So I was wondering if you all could give me your thoughts on evangelism. What makes it hard to do? What could make it easier? How could your church provide ways to help you get involved in it? These are the type of things I wonder about.

One thing that helps is to know that the results are up to God. The scripture tells us that it is God that gives the increase so we should never take on the burden of trying to change someones heart. We don't know the hearts of men, and even if we did, we couldn't do anything about it. The Father has to draw the person to His Son (John 6:44)

Pray for boldness and pray for divine opportunities to witness the gospel. God will eagerly answer yes to those prayers, I believe. Pray that God will give you wisdom about what to speak and give you His love for the person you are speaking to. Pray before, during and after witnessing.

God will engineer the whole thing and give us the ability to do what He asks if we are submitted to His will in humility. Our motive should only be one thing; His glory.
 
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NazerbruhILJC

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i have an idea guys, anyone who owns an xbox playstation or games on their pc we can reach so many people we would have a harder time reaching on the streets and theres millions of people on xbox and stuff all the time so its an easy way to talk to people about Jesus who might not have another oppurtunity. i wanna do this since i own xbox but i dont know what to say to people or what to say first
 
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hopeinGod

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First, do not think anyone within your church will go with you. I learned very early in my Christian walk that my specialty had little to do with the desires of the remaining members of the churches and groups with whom I shared Sunday and weekday services. In fact, none of them wanted anything to do with going out on the streets to speak to strangers.

Why? Because of the prevailing half truth that told them if they are living the Christian life, then their fruit will attract others to Christ, by them coming up to them and asking what it is that makes them who they are. Truth is, that scenario very, very seldom takes place. This is why God created the fivefold ministry offices, not occupations, which some folks continue to allow pastoring to be. Evangelism is not an occupation and neither is being a pastor. So don't think you're going to be paid for witnessing, because you're not, which should be the very same attitude that a pastor should have. But it isn't so today, sadly.

If you are to do as you write, then, as I say, realize you may be doing what you do alone most of the time. I did, and led many to Christ, and without support from any of those with whom I shared space in a room where we sat in folding chairs for hours listening to those one man shows. I guess they thought the evangelist should also be a one man show, and so it was just that way. The one man show rules today, so don't let it scare you away.
 
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jbearnolimits

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First, do not think anyone within your church will go with you. I learned very early in my Christian walk that my specialty had little to do with the desires of the remaining members of the churches and groups with whom I shared Sunday and weekday services. In fact, none of them wanted anything to do with going out on the streets to speak to strangers.

Why? Because of the prevailing half truth that told them if they are living the Christian life, then their fruit will attract others to Christ, by them coming up to them and asking what it is that makes them who they are. Truth is, that scenario very, very seldom takes place. This is why God created the fivefold ministry offices, not occupations, which some folks continue to allow pastoring to be. Evangelism is not an occupation and neither is being a pastor. So don't think you're going to be paid for witnessing, because you're not, which should be the very same attitude that a pastor should have. But it isn't so today, sadly.

If you are to do as you write, then, as I say, realize you may be doing what you do alone most of the time. I did, and led many to Christ, and without support from any of those with whom I shared space in a room where we sat in folding chairs for hours listening to those one man shows. I guess they thought the evangelist should also be a one man show, and so it was just that way. The one man show rules today, so don't let it scare you away.

Sounds like you have spent a lot of time seeing how paralyzed the church really is. I agree with you that the half truth of "Just live your life" has hurt the church. In fact I relate it to a poison that has infected the body causing it to be so sick it can not move.

As far as people not being paid for it...I have to disagree, but I won't get into the reasons or the scriptures now. The main point is that even though I believe people should have their physical needs cared for by those who are being taken care of spiritually, it doesn't mean it is done for money.

But lets get off of that subject for a moment. You mention that this lie has stopped people from reaching out. People believe lies often because it makes sense to them or because they are getting some kind of benefit from it.

What benefit would you say they are getting? And how would you suggest they be helped to become an evangelist?
 
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hopeinGod

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Sounds like you have spent a lot of time seeing how paralyzed the church really is. I agree with you that the half truth of "Just live your life" has hurt the church. In fact I relate it to a poison that has infected the body causing it to be so sick it can not move.

As far as people not being paid for it...I have to disagree, but I won't get into the reasons or the scriptures now. The main point is that even though I believe people should have their physical needs cared for by those who are being taken care of spiritually, it doesn't mean it is done for money.

But lets get off of that subject for a moment. You mention that this lie has stopped people from reaching out. People believe lies often because it makes sense to them or because they are getting some kind of benefit from it.

What benefit would you say they are getting? And how would you suggest they be helped to become an evangelist?

You're probably thinking of "a workman is worthy of his hire." Daniel wrote, "And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." It's more on a basis of reward in heaven as well as position awaiting us that I view the payment.....anyway, to answer you question.

The person who sees the need to witness (or even preach as I did, eventually, after acquiring a city permit) and responds to it, whether someone goes out with him or not, provides for himself an opportunity to hear from God and for the Lord to pull from his studied resources -- not tracts -- verses that apply to his statements.

Not a whole lot of them did I use in a way that might tempt a person to think I was a walking encyclopedia of Bible verses; or, in other words, that my intent was to impress, but to place into the conversation a fitting verse, and sometimes it had little to do with the salvation message. It was just one that the Lord brought to mind after listening to the person's burden. For instance, if a guy was talking about how hard life was living in a home that was so chaotic, I might say, "I love how Solomon put it: It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house."

"You got that right, buddy," he might say, and we'd laugh a bit at all those hassles that weighed on him. What I intended was friendliness, not Bible thumping.

Most of all, getting out on the street (I didn't do much door-to-door presentation of the gospel) I learned to walk up to just about anyone, and to this day I'm still like that. It helped me in my work later in life as I majored in journalism, wrote for five newspapers, and had to be able to approach people with varied personalities to get interviews.

I came up with all sorts of approaches to reach individuals. A good example were the rock concerts I'd attend in large auditoriums in the city, carrying with me my Bible and a small flashlight that gave a readable glow. As I strolled through the standing audience, I'd tap different ones on the shoulder and ask them to please read a verse I had highlighted in my Bible. God would give me some very appropriate verses, such as delighting ourselves in the Lord and He would give us the desires of our hearts, and I'd ask them, "Did you know that? God loves you enough to meet your needs, your real needs," I'd say. If a conversation ensued, I'd go with it, then on to the next person. And this I did all alone, with not one Christian with me.

It is my belief that arguments pursue when we don't have answers, especially to the most common naysaying. I find apologetics to be full of useful information made to be used in discussions with unbelievers. For we have more than just the Scriptures to speak to the unknowing and unlearned. Metaphors, analogies, parables and the like are what Jesus used, and we can too, only if we are willing to study and apply them to those who question us. Oftentimes, when Jesus was bombarded with questions, He answered with a question, which can also be very appropriate at times.

I wonder, had I given up, just where would my friend George be today. For two years, I walked into his head shop located on the beach where I developed a friendship with him, a hippie who liked his dope and lived a laid back life.

His was one of the most exciting conversions of my Christian life.

Located near the boardwalk was his shop where tokers could purchase bongs, rolling papers, etc. On my frequent walks, I routinely dropped by the store to talk. In time, we became good friends. He always had a bar stool sitting near his checkout counter, where I would sit, and we'd talk about lots of things.

On some occasions, we strongly disagreed on various topics. Had I taken those incidences as a reason to quit sharing the Lord, who knows where George might be today?

One day out of the blue, he asked, "You know the stuff you've been sharing with me over the years?"

I replied, "No George, what are you talking about?"

"You know, about Jesus."

"Yea, what about it?"

"I wanna do it."

"You mean you want to repent and give your life to the Lord, George?" I asked.

"Yea."

"When?"

"Right now...." And so we got down on our knees while I led George in the sinner's prayer.

Within a couple of months, George sold his business, applied for entrance into a California seminary and was accepted. He later graduated and became a missionary in South America.

George's conversion took at least two years, but in that time we'd become close friends. I wasn't put off by any of his business dealings, and, in fact, I was a toker in my past life so I knew all about the paraphenalia he sold. There was no need to be put off by it.

Getting members out into the world and off the pews is something I wrestled with for at least eight years, when I chose to leave that area and move back north. In all that I did, even when I set my VW Bug up as a speaking system by installing an old police CB/PA given to me by a pastor who was about to throw it away, onto which I taped a very long cord so I could pace the sidewalk as I talked, it was by my own design. Whatever I found at hand to make things work better for me or help draw more folks, I didn't give it a second thought, but threw myself into the work.

In talking to strangers, I learned to listen to them, to get to their feelings, and to ask what they were doing to deal with those feelings. How I wish I'd kept up with those that God used me to win. They're living whatever lives they chose for themselves, and maybe still walking with the Lord.

Also, I learned to trust God to bring out from me His presence in my words, whether they were scriptures or just caring responses. It was a wonderful time. Sometimes, as I've written, I felt pretty alone and felt I was the sole believer with the vision that kept me. Those who thought their lives were enough witness to draw to the Lord the entire world, well, I had few words to say to them, but instead did as I felt led and kept at it for several years. Even when I hitchhiked to class at college, I'd try to find an opportunity to share the truth. It didn't have to be the salvation message if it was the truth because the Lord could breath on any of it.
David
 
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jbearnolimits

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First, actually I was thinking of a number of other verses including that one (which Paul went on to speak of it being physical pay here and now directly after). But again that is beside the point.

I enjoyed reading your testimony. It sounds very much like you have a zeal for sharing whatever you can with whoever you can. I am glad to hear of it. I do think it is sad in a way too though.

You sound as though you have felt the load was totally on your shoulders. Was there anyone you went to and asked help from? Maybe a fellow church member? Or did you have anyone you felt you could ask advice from on how to be more effective?
 
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hopeinGod

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Where I was attending at that time was at a nondenom that had a strong belief that someday the "gifts" would emerge from among us like some kind of an overnight miracle, but it never manifested, especially in regard to a balanced mixture of the fivefold ministries. Most anyone with any ambition at all wanted to be known for being a pastor, although there were a few self-proclaimed "prophets" in our midst from time to time who always petered out.

Pretty much, the only gifts in operation were long-winded message givers brought forth by those, as I've written, who owned the largest cassette libraries and could take from them something that they sufficiently convinced others were personal revelations. It was truly a place where there was ambition, but not in any way directed toward going into the field to reach others. The heathen, instead, had to come to them by invitation, such as a chic tract that was found in a bathroom or on a telephone that contained the church's address.

Repeatedly, I tried to get others to come out with me from those with whom I met on a regular basis, about a 300 or so member group that met in a school auditorium, but to no avail. Not being content to wait around for anyone else, I took to the streets alone. Sometimes, I visited another group in Jacksonville, about an hour's drive from my apartment, a grassroots evangelistic gathering of young people who actually felt it more important to get folks saved as opposed to making them members who can contribute toward the paying of utilities and the pastor's salary.

Where I was attending, all, and I mean ALL, of the messages in regard to street witnessing were made powerless just as soon as that old lie came out to justify the members' laziness, inability, fear and loathing.

These days, I am not at all a part of the traditional one man show form of meetings, and I never intend to return. It strangles the individual work God would like to perform that is special in every believer, and cancels out any desire for bringing in those off the streets for fear they will catch something, or something will be stolen, or they will have to give a few bucks to help someone get on their feet. At least that is the way things were when I was with them in the 70s. Today, I understand they've grown some, have turned their Christian school's auditorium into a beautiful chapel, and have created all sorts of ministries that reach out to those in prison. I doubt they have yet to raise up street ministers.

It is so sad to see how many pew warmers want to do nothing but that. But that is the way of the one man show, and I doubt, in our lifetimes, we will see a change.
 
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jbearnolimits

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It is so sad to see how many pew warmers want to do nothing but that. But that is the way of the one man show, and I doubt, in our lifetimes, we will see a change.

I know your frustration. I have had to deal with an unresponsive church a few times myself. My question for you now is what do you think makes these "pew warmers" want to believe it is ok? I know the saying "Just live your life." I just want to know why you think people cling to that so much?
 
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hopeinGod

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There is no real hands-on preparation for speaking to strangers being taught at churches. There are only salary earners. I learned it myself, on-the-job, without a hint of another's leading.

My message and approach was the same for the longest time and still I got hearers. Then, things started changing in regard to the content of my conversation. How? I lost the standout trait of having an agenda. And that's where you'll find 99% of those who initially start out, with an agenda in their face, their hands, their approach.

If you're just out there to talk to folks, realizing it may take several times before the right moment comes around to ask them, "What do you know about Jesus? Have you ever heard of Him?" or whatever God leads, you'll get better results.

That's when dozens of different replies come, the most prominent one is "I used to go to church, but...." Then, there's the "I don't believe in God" types, and the "Let's get out of here, Edith" types, and so on. Knowing what to respond or not to respond comes in time, as does the content of one's conversation.

Also, keep in mind, if a person is willing to witness full-on, if he puts his heart into it and begins to see fruit, that fruit can very likely lead to the formation of one's own home group, and that home group could build to become competition for the big boys who want all those tithe dollars rolling in.

That's why leadership doesn't want to teach the 5 fold ministries as they are presented in Ephesians, that each of us is supposed to be preparing, through those ministries, for the work of the ministry. Once that vision comes alive, there is less chance of keeping the corralled sheep in their pens, giving those dollars. They don't want to work themselves out of a job like they should be willing to, because they don't want to lose the income.
 
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BryanW92

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People are comfortable with having that "paid prayer" at the front of the congregation. They know they can count on him for a sermon every week and, if necessary, can threaten him if he starts preaching on uncomfortable topics.

We are the priesthood of all believers, but most Christians don't want the responsibility that comes with that.
 
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jbearnolimits

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So let me get this straight. What you two (Bryan and Hope) have said is that the reason people don't want to get out there and win people to Christ is because they are uneducated in the gospel and because they are ok with that?

Because when the pastor teaches on subjects they don't like they shut their ears?

It sounds like you are saying they believe they have no part in the work. Is that what you think?
 
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BryanW92

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So let me get this straight. What you two (Bryan and Hope) have said is that the reason people don't want to get out there and win people to Christ is because they are uneducated in the gospel and because they are ok with that?

Because when the pastor teaches on subjects they don't like they shut their ears?

It sounds like you are saying they believe they have no part in the work. Is that what you think?

I'm not saying that they are uneducated. I'm saying that they feel that they pay a lot of money for a pastor and that it's his job. That is the problem with the western church in general. They are people who wouldn't clean a table at a restaurant before they sit at it because it's someone's job. They take that into church as well.

That's why they hire nursery workers, musicians, worship leaders, pastors, secretaries, etc. They insulate themselves from the day to day operation of their own church, so naturally they aren't going to go out and evangelize in public.

We have the desperate sounding "bring a friend to church" Sundays and maybe 1 in 10 actually does even that!

I'm not justifying what they do and think, but I am explaining it. It isn't that they don't know or that they don't understand the gospel. They just choose to disconnect their duties from those of the apostles and early disciples.
 
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hopeinGod

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So let me get this straight. What you two (Bryan and Hope) have said is that the reason people don't want to get out there and win people to Christ is because they are uneducated in the gospel and because they are ok with that?

Because when the pastor teaches on subjects they don't like they shut their ears?

It sounds like you are saying they believe they have no part in the work. Is that what you think?

You have entirely misinterpreted what I wrote. Please go back and see just what it contains. The people are how they are because they either don't know any better or because they love to have it so. There's nothing stopping anyone from taking the initiative on their own. One doesn't have to be told what to do through only that one voice at the head of every meeting.

I didn't say anything about a pastor teaching anything that they don't want to hear. But I did write about those who prefer not to take literally the instruction in Eph. 4 to allow the 5 fold ministries build in them ( which we really don't have at work if we are honest; for most prophets and such are amateurs and speculators) what they need to go on to their own ministries. It is what training is all about; not about sitting in the same seats week after week, paying dues or for whatever reasons believers attend. It's about coming to a place where they too are able to minister.

But, as you can see, most folks really don't want that, and besides, what we have today in the majority of these one man shows are one sided sermons with emphasis on a few pet doctrines that keep the assembly lopsided, unbalanced and therefore poorly educated. Poor preparation, yes, is a big part of why believers aren't reaching the unsaved through ministries that go where the sinner is rather than adopting a hundred different secularized means to draw the unsaved into the chapel. Mosh pit worship services are just one of the draws today.

It's not that members have no part in the work; of course they do, they pay the bills, sometimes get together to help in various places in the community; although, not in numbers one would think should be willing to restock the shelves of missions, scrub the kitchens from top to bottom, and help fix the meals. At least, that's not been my experience to see this take place. City metropolitan ministries, where the homeless are sheltered usually have the same few who work hard to keep it going.

How many truly religious do we have who visit the fatherless and widows in their afflictions? How many go out of their way to become helpers to the helpless?

Churches today are social gatherings that end with those in attendance meeting at the nearest restaurant, gab about the gossip in the church, and pretty much know only as much Bible as their particular slant provides them. The reason for this is because study habits aren't well understood. When at home, if they do pick up their Bibles, most close their eyes, hold onto their Bibles to a part that flops open, and read from there.

Studies in first principles are very seldom taught in any assembly; instead, the approach is book by book, not principles, which is what real study is all about, the first PRINCIPLES OF THE ORACLES OF GOD as stated in Heb. 6. And what are these principles? They are listed there, and are not learned in a weekend retreat. It takes at least two solid committed years of study to know them as they open up line upon line, here a little there a little throughout Scripture.

Going back to getting on the street, you can't be a messenger unless you have a message, and it is best to understand a bit of the progression of philosophical and psychological thought that has brought us where we are today, in a post modern society. The isms that contributed to getting us here are absent in most training,. When known, they can open up a whole lot of understanding in the mind of the true apologist/evangelist. Instead, for sermons, they get nice feel good messages that provide a temporary lift that is forgotten the minute they walk out the doors as they head off to the nearest IHOP.

Dave
 
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