Living Sinless

[Nani-Day]

Is it impossible to do? Can you go one day without sin? If so, then how about a week? A month? Years? If we're really following Christ to the best of our abilities shouldn't it be possible? Are we just making excuses to justify our unwillingness to live as rightous as possible?

What's the view on this?

 

[buzuxi02]

Well we definitely make excuses. Just look at Adam. He blamed both God and the woman for partaking of the forbidden fruit.

The thing is especially over a prolonged period of time Orthodoxy recognizes transgressions that are beyond or control. A prayer said before Communion asks God to foregive us from all sins both know and unknown, in word and in deed, voluntary and involuntary.

Theoretically its possible, but to give you an example of how hard is that many pious monks also view things they see in their dreams as sinful. They do believe that even immoral dreams can be controlled but its not easy.

 

[pyramid33]

I'm sinless. In God.

 

[inconsequential]

In the fight against that bully, some of us are Steven Seagal and some are Stephen Hawking, or somewhere in between. Thankfully, Daddy is there to heal and strengthen us and help with our slack.

My personal weakness and inability to live without sin continually drives home the point that I am powerless against it and utterly dependent upon Christ's mercy and grace if I am ever to overcome it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Is it impossible to do? Can you go one day without sin? If so, then how about a week? A month? Years? If we're really following Christ to the best of our abilities shouldn't it be possible? Are we just making excuses to justify our unwillingness to live as rightous as possible?

What's the view on this?

If I may say...

I'm reminded of 1 John 1:9...

And on what St. John said, it isn't that the apostle is speaking to believers or non-believers so much as 1 John 1 is a reminder of where we came from and that to the believer it is a reminder that we were sinners and are not to ever deny that (whereas to the unbeliever it is a proclamation that Jesus saves). ...for the Bible tells us that Jesus has already taken away our sins (1 John 3:5) and yet If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrightousness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)​

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)​

1 John 3:4-10
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor ishe who does not love his brother.
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With the Sin nature aspect...

In the New Covenant we have, we have been given NEW Natures and having the correct application of what having the New Self is about, the concept of the carnal man being available to walk in at any time just as it is with daily choosing to walk in the new nature via Christ/The Holy Spirit is more than consistent in Scripture---Romans 13:13-14 / Romans 13 being one of the best examples, as there'd never be a need/command from Paul stating to put on Christ--just as it is with putting on the new self as seen in Colossians or Ephesians--if there wasn't the capacity to do so.

Your new nature in Christ (empowered by the Holy Spirit) cannot sin...and when in it, one's on point. Yet, on the same token, your old nature's available to walk in as well (i.e. the flesh/sinful nature)..and Just like having two pairs of clothing---as the clothing did not decide to get up by itself and one has a choice whichever one to walk in--it's the same dynamic.

In the book of Colossians, Paul exposed the wrong reasons for self-denial since false teachers were promoting a heresy stressing self-made rules (legalism) and spiritual growth by discipline of the body (asceticism) and visions (mysticism)--which were all based in self-centered efforts and created pride (Colossians 2:11 ). In Colossians 3, he explains true Christian behavior--putting on the new self by accepting Christ and regarding the earthly nature as dead, as we change our moral/ethical behavior by letting Christ live within us so that He can shape us unto what we should be.

On Colossians 3, Paul begins by making clear that we have been raised with Christ and therefore should set our minds on things above---for as he states, "For you died"....which means that we should have little desire for the world as a dead man would have. The Christian's true home is where Christ lives...and this truth gives us a different perspective on our lives here on earth. Our lives have been "Hidden with Christ"--which means concealed/safe...and this is not only a future hope, but an accomplished one right now since our service and conduct do not earn our salvation...but they are results of our salvation. Without that understanding, one has little incentive to bear fruit for the Lord. Becaus our eternal destiny is sure, Heaven should fill our thoughts...


We should consider ourselves dead and unresponsive to sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed....and just like diseased limbs of a tree, these practices must be cut off before they destroy us. We must make a conscious, daily decision to remove anything that supports or feeds these desires and rely on the Holy Spirit's power. That's part of what it means to "put to death/put off the old man"------as the believers in Colosse had forgotten these things (alongside the wrath of God coming because of them)....and Paul was appealing to the commitment the believers had made and urging them to remain true to their confession of faith. They were to rid themselves of the old life and "put on" the new way of living given by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit. Their conduct should've matched their faith......


Hence, it's the reason Paul made clear that we're now to CLOTHE OURSELVES anew with the new GARMENTS OF CHARACTER CALLED OF US!!

Colossians 3
12Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
​

This does not mean we're perfect...for Every Christian is in a continuining education program. And the more we know of CHRIST and His Work, the more we are being changed to be like Him. Because this process is a lifelong journey, we must never stop learning and obeying. It goes hand in hand with the central teaching of Christ regarding taking up one's cross/daily denying themselves to follow Him Matthew 10:37-39/ /Matthew 16:23-25 / Matthew 16 /Mark 8:33-35 / /Luke 9:22-24 / Luke 9

The Word does make clear in I John 3 clearly that one in Christ does not sin----and in that sense, it is indeed logical to say that a Christian may not necessarily be a "Sinner" as much as allowing the "Sinner" of our old self to come back into place...giving our (new man) allowance to let the old man lead.

With Ephesians 4, when I read the whole of God's Word, I see clearly that there was no need to say "When you put on the old self" since the scriptures made clear the people Paul was speaking to were believers who had already done so---and hence, why he had to write to them to put the old self off/put it to death just as they were already taught by him when he worked with them previously---as the letter was sent with one of the workers he had with him named Tychicus ( Acts 20:3-5 / Acts 20 /Ephesians 6:20-22 / Ephesians 6 ) to strengthen the churches in the area since Paul had met with the Ephesian CHURCH at Miletus (Acts 20:28 ) --a meeting that was filled with great sadness snce he was leaving them for what he thought would be the last time. ( Ephesians 4:21-23 /Ephesians 4 ), just as in other passages where the mentality was repeated.

Ephesians 4:16-18 / Ephesians 4
Living as Children of Light
17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
​

Prior to Paul bringing up the terminology of "put on the new self", Paul made clear that people should be able to see a difference between Christians and Non-Christians because of the way Christians live. We are to live as Children of Light (Ephesians 5:7-9 Ephesians 5 )...and Paul told the Ephesians to leave behind the old life of sin, since they were followers of Christ. For living the Christian life is a process. Although we have new natures, we don't automatically think all good thoughts and express all right attitudes when we become new people in Christ. But if we keep listening to God, we will be changing all the time. And those changes are part of what constitutes the attitudes characteristic of the NEW MAN created to be like Christ---which Paul went into extensive detail immediately after reminding the believers to put on the new self as seen in all of the imperatives he gives to believers such as choosing to walk in compassion, not sinning in anger, and various other things (Ephesians 4:26). And for more info on our new nature in Christ, Romans 6:8 and Romans 8:9 alongside Galatians 5:16-15 are great places to go..

Our old way of life before we believed in Christ is completely in the past..and therefore, we should put it behind us like old clothes to be thrown away. This is both a once-and-for-all decision when we decide to accept Christ's gift of salvation ( Ephesians 2:4-6 Ephesians 2:7-9/ Ephesians 2/ )..and also a daily conscious commitment. For we are not driven by desire and impulse, but we must put on the new role, head in the right direction, and have the new way of thinking that the Holy Spirit gives. ( Galatians 5:15-17 / Galatians 5 /Romans 6:6 )

Both of these passages (Colossians and Ephesians) are ones in which Paul clearly made a distinction between two areas of life we have a choice in walking in-----and never did it become an issue of losing one's salvation and undoing the Work of Christ to believe that what Christ died for us to have is something we're given a choice in and that our old self can be operated in at anytime. The "Old Man" and the "New Man" contrasts the old lifestyle dominated the spirit of DISOBEDIANCE (Ephesians 2:1-3/ Ephesians 2 ) with the believers NEWLY CREATED CAPACITY for a life-style of obediance by the Holy Spirit's power (Ephesians 3:15-17/ Ephesians 3 )


Unless Paul did not mean that the OLD self was something one had to choose to put off alongside the NEW one, one would have to show in the text what the phrase "PUT ON THE NEW MAN" mean---and if it indeed meant something other than something that had to be taken up daily. This brings us to the last verse that needs to be dealt with):

Romans 13:13-14 / Romans 13
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Put on Christ 11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.

13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
​

The word "provision" is pronoia (pron-oy-ah). From Strong's #4307...andit means "FOREPLANNING, foresight, forethought, predmediated plan, making preparation for, providing for." Derived from words pro, "before," and noeo, "to think," "contemplate." Paul prohibited his readers from planning ahead and making any preparations for gratifying their carnal nature. Paul emphasizes a high standard of moral conduct, paticularly in view of the nearness of the Lord's return, when our salvation will be consummated. The way to moral excellence is twofold. Positively, we must PUT ON the Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to His Lordship, accepting His moral standards, living in constant fellowship with Him, and depending upon his strength. Negatively, we are to make no provision for the flesh, doing nothing to foster its sensual desires and appetities.

If it were not possible for Christians to make room for the sins of the flesh, there'd logically never have been warning against it to begin with---and all of this, to be clear, was DIRECTLY after Paul was speaking on the new nature that has been made available to us in Christ in Romans 5-8. Yet there was no contradiction seeing that the mindset of those who were listening is that the new work Christ made for us was that we'd be able to have a new nature via the opportunity to participate in His righteousness and no longer be forced to choose sin as our masters. We're free to do so---just like with putting on dirty clothes---but it's not something we're destined to do so anymore. Being a new creature DOES NOT mean that the old nature/flesh (clothing) is not available for us to walk in if we so choose to do so. Plenty of believers do so all the time. Annias and Saphria did so clearly- in Acts 5 when they lied to the church--alongside a couple of others who chose to do so.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

We are indeed called upon to be sinless as our Father in Heaven is sinless. The Lord tells us that in Scripture...HOWEVER, God also knows that we are fallen creatures of His whom He loves. We are called to do the best we can. God gives us much grace to aid in the war, but our past sins often keep us on our toes and in constant pain. Sometimes trauma, war, addiction, suffering, betrayal, and all sorts of bad things inform our current struggles. It's tough. God cares about our staying in the marathon.

I think if we look at what Socrates said about how one is truly "wise," we'd all be better off. Though Socrates was obviously not able to be an Orthodox Christian, he emphasized that one cannot be wise and know it! One must be humble to be wise. It's a bit of a paradox of sorts. But if we think we're wise and sinless, we delude ourselves.

So, considering ourselves the chief sinner and in the MOST dire need of God's grace from the whole group, we stand a better chance of attaining wisdom through God's mercies.

Don't just try to be a perfect man, just try to be a man. That's the best way to go imho.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Is it impossible to do? Can you go one day without sin? If so, then how about a week? A month? Years? If we're really following Christ to the best of our abilities shouldn't it be possible? Are we just making excuses to justify our unwillingness to live as rightous as possible?

What's the view on this?

If interested...

You'd probably enjoy the writings of the Desert Fathers and Mothers on the issue - as they often spoke on the ways we progress in our becoming like the Lord (Theosis) and how being sinless is both something Christ accomplishes in us AND something we participate in.

St. Macaruis of Egypt noted that "The true sign of a Christian is this: to feed the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to endure hunger and thirst, to be poor in spirit, to be humble and contemptible in one's own eyes."

And Abba Arsenius once prayed in these words, 'Lord, Lead me to the way of salvation'" - and after being guided to flee from the world to seek solitude, he heard a voice saying to him: ‘Arsenius, flee; be silent; pray always. These are the sources of sinlessness."

Additionally, as another noted best:

We can keep guard over the whole world by keeping guard over the atmosphere of heaven within us, for if we lose the Kingdom of Heaven, we will save neither ourselves nor others. He who has the Kingdom of God within himself will imperceptibly pass it on to others. People will be attracted by the peace and warmth in us; they will want to be near us, and the atmosphere of heaven will gradually pass on to them. It is not even necessary to speak to people about this. The atmosphere of Heaven will radiate from us even when we keep silence or talk about ordinary things.

~ Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica​

We have a daily choice whether we'll be athletes who train to keep ourselves in shape spiritually and at the PEAK of what we were made for - or instead be lazy and thus be bound to the same sins that we were not meant to have to live with if we chose to participate with the Lord.

Have you seen the movie "Spiderman 3"? Sorry I have to go to the T.V for my references....but I used to be a comic buff and I thought the Movie was excellent and probably one of the best examples illustrating the concept of the war between the OLD Man and the the NEW Man.[/COLOR]

​

For Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider---given a gift that literally made him into a new creature. Still human, of course, in many ways....but significantly enhanced/developing with abilities not found in mere men. But when the symbiote got attached to him, it brought out the worse of what he was. And it drove him. Parker had the ability to reign in the symbiote/Venom...but it was difficult and something he had to consciously choose to do.

1 Peter 2:11

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.


(1 Peter 2

1 Peter 4:1
[ Living for God ] Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 1 Peter 4:1-3 /1 Peter 4
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In his book The Friend of the Bridegroom: On the Orthodox Veneration of the Forerunner , Sergius Bulgakov explicitly asserts the personal sinlessness of John the Baptist and compares him to the Theotokos, "who is free of all personal sin and even of any sinful inclination. And in the view of the Church, which venerates his saintliness from the moment of his conception, the Forerunner too is free of personal sin. ... Because they participate in the human essence, the Mother of God and the Forerunner also possess in a fundamental property or state of this essence: they are subject to original sin and death. But this condition that is common to the whole human race, hamartema, is not actualized in them by particular, personal sins, parabaseis, paraptomata. It is suppressed and vanquished by their personal freedom" (p. 20).

For more discussion on the matter, one can go to The sinlessness of the Theotokos, John the Baptist, and the Old Testament Saints

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is it impossible to do?

no, we all have free will, and we chose whether to sin or not to sin. just because we are inclined to sin and fallen, does not mean we have to make the choice.

Are we just making excuses to justify our unwillingness to live as rightous as possible?

often time, yes, because it is easier. as someone earlier pointed out, Adam blamed Eve and God for his sin, Eve blamed the serpent and God for her sin.