Life from lifelessness?

thaumaturgy

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Well, it's a bit more involved than that, but if you can produce life from non-life and show it to be a thermodynamically possible process, then Creationism does indeed lose a big building block in its "evidentiary chain" (which right now relies mostly on maintaining doubt).

So if life can arise from purely inorganic processes at conditions that can be conceived to be active at a time in earth's history, then you simply can no longer rely on the "We need God to explain how life arose!"

It's all part of this misguided idea that life is somehow so beyond the natural realm that it simply must have as its origins some supernatural "divine spark" if you will.

Now, if life is found to be a natural process, that doesn't mean God couldn't have made it. It just means that there's one less requirement that "Only God" could have fulfilled.

The God of the Gaps gets squeezed into smaller and smaller gaps.

Which must be hard for such a gigantic concept.
 
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thaumaturgy

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God beat your "chemical means" to it; He did it without chemicals.

Uh, no he didn't. Even if he did make life, he used chemicals. I'm made of chemicals. What are you made of?

Now, I'll grant God doesn't have to be made of chemicals or use chemically-based test-tubes, but the end product contains almost exclusively chemicals, which means chemicals were involved.

Can you make a cake without cake ingredients? :)
 
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TheManeki

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Uh, no he didn't. Even if he did make life, he used chemicals. I'm made of chemicals. What are you made of?

Now, I'll grant God doesn't have to be made of chemicals or use chemically-based test-tubes, but the end product contains almost exclusively chemicals, which means chemicals were involved.

Can you make a cake without cake ingredients? :)
Ohh! Maybe the cake has ex nihilo embedded ingredients!
 
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AV1611VET

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The God of the Gaps gets squeezed into smaller and smaller gaps.

Maybe your god, Thaumaturgy, but not mine. I'll remain loyal to mine. I don't care if you can mix Pepsi* with Coke** and produce a walking, talking Homopepsicoke with an IQ of 250. When a Homopepsicoke dies on the cross for my sins, I'll think about it --- for about a yottasecond.


* The choice of a new generation.
** Coke adds life.
 
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NOTW

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And how does it make me look if I hold science up to a higher Standard, instead?
Well, God gave human-beings the special ability to think, create, observe, and analyze. He didn't give it to us to throw it in a trash-can.

So, use it!
 
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AV1611VET

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Uh, no he didn't. Even if he did make life, he used chemicals. I'm made of chemicals. What are you made of?

Now, I'll grant God doesn't have to be made of chemicals or use chemically-based test-tubes, but the end product contains almost exclusively chemicals, which means chemicals were involved.

Can you make a cake without cake ingredients? :)

After considering the Documentation, I'll concede that the ingredients were already there, since God made man from the dust of the earth, and not via ex nihilo means.

And yes, I could make [create] a cake without cake ingredients, if I had the power of ex nihilo. In fact, I could make it with heat embedded; that is, it would come into existence nice and warm.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, God gave human-beings the special ability to think, create, observe, and analyze. He didn't give it to us to throw it in a trash-can.

So, use it!

What's this supposed to mean, "brother"?
 
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thaumaturgy

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Maybe your god, Thaumaturgy, but not mine. I'll remain loyal to mine. I don't care if you can mix Pepsi* with Coke** and produce a walking, talking Homopepsicoke with an IQ of 250. When a Homopepsicoke dies on the cross for my sins, I'll think about it --- for about a yottasecond.


* The choice of a new generation.
** Coke adds life.

Clearly I wasn't talking about your god. I was merely responding to the claim that creationism, at large, may be affected if life is made from non-life.

Of course your god is superduperspecial. He won't be squeezed into any dictionary, logic textbook or crevice anywhere.

He is that he is. And he made a world that looks like it should follow various logic rules and be ammenable to scientific insight. But sometimes, as we know, things are not as they seem. Sometimes things just have an embedded illogic!
 
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thaumaturgy

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Then you'll go without dessert waiting for "science" to feed you.

Well, in point of fact, science feeds a lot of people. There have been no loaves and fishes miracles in quite some time.

But science has picked up the slack where God opted to stop playing.

I used to work for the USDA as a research scientist. They have 4 major research centers that help get more food out of an acre than just plain ol' hopin' and prayin' will get. (And they brought you concentrated orange juice...you're welcome).

So if Nitron wants some food, science is there making the loaves and improving the fishes!

Again, you're welcome!:)
 
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AV1611VET

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I was merely responding to the claim that creationism, at large, may be affected if life is made from non-life.

I somehow doubt that anything is going to put a dent in creationism.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, in point of fact, science feeds a lot of people. There have been no loaves and fishes miracles in quite some time.

But science has picked up the slack where God opted to stop playing.

I used to work for the USDA as a research scientist. They have 4 major research centers that help get more food out of an acre than just plain ol' hopin' and prayin' will get. (And they brought you concentrated orange juice...you're welcome).

So if Nitron wants some food, science is there making the loaves and improving the fishes!

Again, you're welcome!:)

Don't thank me --- thank God, Who gifted us those research scientists - including you.
 
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MoonLancer

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[god] if you read the bible and claim Jesus Christ as your savior while also rejecting science and reality itself.... we can both have cake together [god]

[mandatory]The Cake is a LIE![/mandatory]
 
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NOTW

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What's this supposed to mean, "brother"?
Well, God made us (verb: 'asah) and gave us the powerful brain to use it.

So, I believe He wants you to use SCIENCE and hold its standards next to the Bible, because the Bible's purpose is "how to be saved" and not "how did life begin", that's SCIENCE's job to explain.
 
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