Liberal Catholic

[Rhamiel]

I understand that many here disagree with opinions of our bishops and the pope that the government has a major role is providing for the poor, the weak, the sick, the alien, the prisoner and the discriminated against. However, that is only part of the issue. As Catholics, we have many options with regard to giving, both directly and through Church organizations.

well I do not know any Catholics who are for Lazzee fair Capitalism
I mean I am sure some exist, but it is not a huge contingency

and as for helping non-Christians
Catholic Charities help people of all faiths... or none at all
I help out at a food catholic run pantry
we help folks of all background

 

[RaylightI]

I find that personality trait not limited to conservatives. Pushy know it alls can be found in any group. Maybe you've just never run into someone who wants to shove women in the priesthood down your throat. I have.

I agree with you. From my experience which lead me to question my Liberalism, and now I'm Conservative.

 

[Open Heart]

I agree with you. From my experience which lead me to question my Liberalism, and now I'm Conservative.

Interesting. They say we grow more conservative as we grow older; I know I did. I was way liberal when I was a young adult. But I wouldn't classify myself as a conservative now, more of a moderate. I have some conservative views and some liberal views.

 

[Fantine]

I think that I became more liberal as I grew older (and I am in my 60's). Growing old makes you realize that you don't have all the answers, that you'll never have all the answers, and that you need to make friends with mystery.

 

[Martinius]

I think that I became more liberal as I grew older (and I am in my 60's). Growing old makes you realize that you don't have all the answers, that you'll never have all the answers, and that you need to make friends with mystery.

In my youth and young adulthood, I was very liberal, but in my middle years grew more conservative, which made me a moderate. Over the past ten years or so, I have swung back to a more liberal view. I agree that with age and hopefully some wisdom comes the realization that there is much mystery and very little that is certain. Yet some people, especially the more conservative (whether politically, morally, or theologically) are prone to seeing things as set in stone with no "wiggle" room. That just does not work for me.

 

[Open Heart]

Yet some people, especially the more conservative (whether politically, morally, or theologically) are prone to seeing things as set in stone with no "wiggle" room. That just does not work for me.

I don't see that as a conservative trait. I've seen it in liberals as well. Let's just say that some people are like that and let it go at that.

 

[mark46]

I think that I became more liberal as I grew older (and I am in my 60's). Growing old makes you realize that you don't have all the answers, that you'll never have all the answers, and that you need to make friends with mystery.

I certainly have become more conservative since my days marching in civil rights and peace demonstrations in the 60's. Even then, I worked within the system and for Democratic political candidates. My political hero was Humphrey. One can't be any more liberal than Humphrey.

I was and am a Humphrey and then a Clinton Democrat. That used to mean I was a moderate in American politics, certainly to the right within the Democratic Party. I do think that 1980-2000 were great years for America. Reagan worked with O'Neill. Clinton worked with Gingritch and Kasich. And the country was in very good shape. I am not a 21st Century liberal with their opposition to free trade and their wishes to increase corporate and capital gains tax rates. I support federal education standards (and idea of the Bush's) and strongly opposed by liberals. We should have higher taxes and we should be spending lots more on helping more folks move into the middle class. We should be increasing the social net, including Social Security. We should be spending lots more on infrastructure (always a blue dog priority). And yes, we should protect the rights of individuals. We should spend much more on supporting women, before, during and after pregnancy. Abortions after 20 weeks should be illegal. I favor amnesty and much more immigration from Mexico and South America. I strongly believe in the NFTA partnership that has greatly benefited all three countries.

So, many on CF would call me a socialist. Many Democrats think that I am a conservative. As I look back, I guess that being comfortable with Reagan and Clinton makes me a conservative in my own eyes. Of course, I don't think that the right wing nuts running the Republican Party are conservatives. The policies of Reagan would be most unwelcome.

 

[Open Heart]

I don't usually talk about Politics. I was very political as a young adult. Now I'm just jaded at age 54. But I've a mind to take a break from religion and say a few words.

On some issues I'm still quite liberal.

The environment for example. Let's face it, capitalism doesn't work when it comes to conserving the earth; companies make more profit by polluting, cutting down forests, and driving species to extinction. I love it that the Pope's new encyclical is about the environment.

Capitalism when left to itself is like a game of monopoly where you have one winner and everyone else loses: you have a huge disparity of wealth between a very few rich and a great many very poor. Is that the American dream? I believe in government interventions to curb capitalism, and I mean more than laws against trusts an monopolies. I mean things like a minimum wage tied to the inflation index.

I believe in a strong middle class and in opportunities to become middle class. This begins with free education all the way up through post graduate work. If a student has the intelligence and aptitude to become a doctor, their economic status shouldn't hold them back from medical school, nor should student debt saddle them to a life of working for HMOs that treat patients like parts on an assembly line. There should also be a government line of credit for new businesses and it should be very liberal. Every family should have the opportunity to start up a small mom and pop business. Small businesses and small farms should once again become the mainstay of the American economy.

I believe in treating the lower class and the very poor with dignity and respect. There is a minimum standard to which all human beings should be treated in any civilized country.

It includes things such as basic health care. Mental health care is a must, and is something sorely underfunded in our present society. Institutionalization should be brought back where needed, to get the seriously mentally ill off the streets. No one with mental illness should go without necessary medication and therapy or risk losing their job due to stigma. Clinics should have evening hours so that patients can work while receiving treatment.

We know from scientific studies that poverty in the first five years of life causes brain damage--lack of the growth of grey matter in the frontal and temporal lobes that is permanent in nature and which effects learning and intelligence. We don't quite know the cause of this, whether it is hunger, lack of nurture, or deprived environment, so a war must be waged on all fronts in order to give these children an equal opportunity. For example, affordable housing, clothing, and food are basic needs for those in poverty. The single greatest factor increasing the likelihood a child will be raised in poverty is the lack of a father in the home; therefore policies encouraging marriage should be put into place. There should be parenting classes especially geared toward expressing nurturance, creating an enriched environment, and having structure and appropriate discipline in the home.

I'm totally for civil rights; I don't even believe in race. I believe in wage equality for the sexes, and it is scandalous that we don't have it yet. We need to care more about misogyny worldwide. I think the LGBT community should be treated like human beings with basic rights -- where did we ever get off thinking they were subhuman?

I am also a conservative in many areas.

I am personally against abortion. Although I believe abortion is wrong from conception is wrong, I believe it should be legal up until viability. But after viability, it should be treated as a crime. Perhaps not murder at first, but first as a misdemeanor and then a felony. In the third trimester, it should be treated as murder.

I believe that people work harder and more efficiently when they reap the gains of their personal efforts. Therefore the best economies are run by capitalism, albeit with controls in place.

I am against affirmative action both for races and for the sexes. Education through High School should be for all so that all have an equal opportunity, but later decisions should be made on the basis of quality.

Although I am for civil rights for the LGBT community, I draw the line at gay marriage. In the history of mankind, marriage has always been between men and women. To change the definition of marriage to include same sex couples is an unwarranted and unnecessary experiment that could reap disastrous consequences. There is nothing to stop gays from having civil unions, which would give them inheritance rights, rights to see each other in hospitals, parental rights, etc.

I am for a strong military. Defense of this country and for democracy is a must.

I am for the support of the Bill of rights, including the ownership of guns. A citizen's right to a militia is necessary in case our own government ever needs to be overthrown.

It also includes the freedom of religion from government clause, which right now is being threatened.

I believe that inappropriate contentography should have tighter controls, especially child access to inappropriate contentography, and doubly especially child inappropriate content. While some sex offenders are treated too harshly, for example it is just wrong to have a man register as a sex offender for peeing in public, those who rape, molest kids, or who are involved with the distribution of kiddie inappropriate content are not treated harshly enough.

I am a firm believer in capital punishment by lethal injection. It should be as public as possible, perhaps televised. It is wrong to kill an offender in a sanitized private way so that sensibilities are protected. If we are going to endorse capital punishment, then we all need to take responsibility for it.

I have probably missed a lot of things, but the one thing I wanted to get across is that I am a mix of both liberal and conservative beliefs. I think I have succeeded in that!!!!

 

[gerbilwoman]

Interesting thread. I just discovered this area of the forum. I find Catholic and liberal them to be two very different things, it's an interesting combination. I'm surprised there's a whole forum for it but am happy to find it.

 

[Rhamiel]

Interesting thread. I just discovered this area of the forum. I find Catholic and liberal them to be two very different things, it's an interesting combination. I'm surprised there's a whole forum for it but am happy to find it.

well Catholics were traditionally Democrats
it is only recently that more Catholics are becoming Republican
I think the majority are still Democrats

 

[Open Heart]

well Catholics were traditionally Democrats
it is only recently that more Catholics are becoming Republican
I think the majority are still Democrats

If Democrats were Kennedy Democrats, I'd be a Democrat too. But today's Democratic party is nothing like what it was. I'm not really a republican either; I just registered as one so I could vote in a primary. I really don't fit in anywhere anymore.

 

[Rhamiel]

yes, with the Democratic Party becoming very very firm in the support of women being able to murder their unborn children, a lot of Catholics felt "called out of Babylon"

 

[gerbilwoman]

well Catholics were traditionally Democrats
it is only recently that more Catholics are becoming Republican
I think the majority are still Democrats

Interesting, I always thought of Catholics are Republicans.

 

[Martinius]

Interesting, I always thought of Catholics are Republicans.

Post WWII, most Catholics lived in cities, worked in union jobs, and voted Democrat. To the suburban, higher income Republicans, those people were liberals. We saw it as "normal". That has changed greatly over recent decades, and one can find Catholics today in every part of the economic and political spectrum.

Interesting thread. I just discovered this area of the forum. I find Catholic and liberal them to be two very different things, it's an interesting combination. I'm surprised there's a whole forum for it but am happy to find it.

In my experience as a mostly urban Catholic, most of the Catholics I have known would be considered liberal, including the priests. I grew up assuming that was what most Catholics were. I looked at it as connected to following Jesus and the Gospels. I saw it in the Civil Rights movement where priests, nuns and lay Catholics marched arm in arm with blacks (and were beaten and jailed, and a few killed, for seeking justice and fairness). I saw it in the rural areas outside my hometown where priests, nuns and lay Catholics aided migrant laborers so they would have the rudiments of a basic existence. I saw it in the Catholic hospital where I worked, where the sisters would provide food and clothing to transients and anyone else in need who showed up at the "back door". To me Catholics were the shining light in a selfish, individualistic world, and they still are to a great extent.

If that is being liberal according to some, to others it is "being Catholic".

 

[Rhamiel]

I saw it in the Civil Rights movement where priests, nuns and lay Catholics marched arm in arm with blacks

well that is an example of Catholics being more conservative

remember it was the Southern Democrats who set up Jim Crow laws
it was the Republicans who got rid of those laws

 

[LivingWordUnity]

yes, with the Democratic Party becoming very very firm in the support of women being able to murder their unborn children, a lot of Catholics felt "called out of Babylon"

That describes what I did. I used to be a registered Democrat and used to think a lot like a liberal until I began to learn what the Catholic Church teaches on things like abortion. When I saw that the DNC was calling abortion a right while the Catholic Church was calling it a wrong I knew that I could not serve two masters. So I stopped being a Democrat and started voting Republican, not because I think the Republican party is so great but because I think the alternative to it is so bad. However, there are some Republican politicians that I actually like such as Dr. Ben Carson.

 

[Martinius]

well that is an example of Catholics being more conservative.

remember it was the Southern Democrats who set up Jim Crow laws
it was the Republicans who got rid of those laws

What you describe has nothing to do with Catholicism. There were few Catholics in the old South, and they were put in the same class as Blacks, Jews and non-Anglo-Saxons. The Southern Dems of the early and mid-twentieth century were conservative and generally racist, and morphed into Republicans with the advance of Civil Rights. Republicans and their southern Dem twins tried to block any civil and voting rights legislation, and then tried to circumvent it wherever they could. You need to study up a little more on your American history.

I fail to understand how Catholics who worked for civil rights and equality could be labeled conservative. You have a very flawed view of history, politics and religion.

 

[Rhamiel]

I fail to understand how Catholics who worked for civil rights and equality could be labeled conservative.

well the wanted civil rights for all people regardless of race
that is a rather conservative view

I mean, just look at the Presidential nominees in both parties
in one we have a rather diverse group, Whites, Latinos, Blacks

and in the other we have a bunch of white people

we still have the Democrats wanting to focus on race, stirring up racial strife

as for my views on politics, history, and religion being flawed, how about we engage each other in conversation rather then just labeling and dismissing each other

as for the Southern racists becoming Republicans, Senator Byrd was a member of the KKK and stayed a respected member of the Democrat party until his death in 2010
so I guess atleast some racists stayed proud and influential members of the Democratic Party

 

[Martinius]

well the wanted civil rights for all people regardless of race
that is a rather conservative view

I mean, just look at the Presidential nominees in both parties
in one we have a rather diverse group, Whites, Latinos, Blacks

and in the other we have a bunch of white people

we still have the Democrats wanting to focus on race, stirring up racial strife

as for my views on politics, history, and religion being flawed, how about we engage each other in conversation rather then just labeling and dismissing each other

as for the Southern racists becoming Republicans, Senator Byrd was a member of the KKK and stayed a respected member of the Democrat party until his death in 2010
so I guess atleast some racists stayed proud and influential members of the Democratic Party

Wanting equal rights for all is conservative? I guess I stand by my recommendation that you study up on your American history.

Robert Byrd later repudiated his KKK membership and admitted his earlier racial views were wrong. He is also a perfect example of the southern Dem who was more like a conservative Republican. He filibustered against the 1964 Civil Rights act and voted against the Voting Rights Act. He didn't have to switch parties to act like a Republican. No doubt that if he was running for office today he would have been a Republican.

Extrapolating from a very small sample to a large group is just not valid. I shouldn't have to remind you that in the last two presidential elections the Democrat candidate was a guy named Obama. Also, you can easily verify that the makeup of Congressional Dems is much more diverse than that of the Republicans.

The idea that focusing on racial issues stirs up discord is an old conservstive claim that is worthy of the KKK and other racists of the 1950's and 1960's. The issue is brought up because it is still an issue. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. That statement is something that would have come from a Strom Thurmond, Barry Goldwater or Robert Byrd from 60 years ago. Today it is just pathetic.

 

[Rhamiel]

it is not like Byrd died in 1960 or something

he was a Democrat all his life

your speculations that Byrd would now be a Republican is just that, speculations

also it is not some claim that liberal views cause racial strife
look at the cities that had race riots recently
Baltimore, Ferguson (a suburb of St. Loius)
it is common sense that Liberalism seeks to cause strife
Republicans want all people to work together, to make a stronger America
while the Democrats keep people separated, with everything adversarial