Let us talk masturbation.

[KitKatMatt]

What do you define as a sin?

Anything that hurts (physically or mentally) or endangers a nonconsenting person.

 

[TraciDee]

Anything that hurts (physically or mentally) or endangers a nonconsenting person.

That's why we don't agree on this issue. I believe sin is anything that goes against God's law or is not honoring to Him. In that light, lusting or giving in to lustful desires is sinful.

 

[KitKatMatt]

That's why we don't agree on this issue. I believe sin is anything that goes against God's law or is not honoring to Him. In that light, lusting or giving in to lustful desires is sinful.

That's cool too. I still am going to ask questions though, it's nice to see people really get down to articulating their reasons for believing things.

 

[OGM]

Sexual thoughts do not always accompany nocturnal emissions. When they do it is the lust that is the sin, not the wet dream itself.

You just said sexual thoughts during nocturnal emissions means lust and that is a sin...am I reading that right?

I'm in the camp that it's not a sin in itself but lust is, and so that will almost always make it sinful.

I've read this entire thread (pat on the back!) and can't be bothered quoting everyone but here are some more thoughts:

- Conviction is a big indicator. Do I feel guilty after doing it? (And I don't think that is conditioning for me anyway - I was taught at school it is normal and it wasn't mentioned at home or at church) Would I be ashamed if people found out? Do I push God out of my mind?

Perhaps much of these is cultural shame. People start at a young age.

- Nocturnal emissions: Of course we lose control when asleep but I believe our dreams and how we act in them reflect our daily worries/concerns/thoughts. If I have a sexual dream, perhaps I'm too preoccupied as such in normal thought. Not sure if we can sin when asleep. Ask a theologian!

It seems odd that no one in this thread mentioned the biochemical factors behind sexuality. Perhaps healthy people that have gone through puberty and have normal hormone levels are supposed to have sexual thoughts. It almost seems that some are considering sexual thoughts in a single person as lust and wrong. The above statement about sexual dreams perhaps being a preoccupation with such in normal thought seems odd, for a healthy person.

our sexuality is meant to be enjoyed with our spouse

Not everyone has spouses and not all people are able to physically have sex.

Also sexual thought does not necessarily equal lust. Must people that have been through puberty have sexual thoughts, that is they way people are designed. Much of this has to do with hormone levels.

 

[Rhamiel]

Anything that hurts (physically or mentally) or endangers a nonconsenting person.

that is a good definition of sin

I think a misuse of sexuality does harm the individual in emotional/spiritual ways

God is not an old man with a long white beard sitting up in the clouds going "No No No" to everything that is fun

God is showing us how to be more human, how to live fuller lives

 

[KitKatMatt]

When people get into "spiritually" harming someone, things get fuzzy to me.

I think there are emotional consequences to sex, definitely, but I think knowledge and clear communication between partners can help minimize or eliminate it.

I still don't see how masturbation could hurt a person, though. I know addiction exists, but I am not talking about addiction.

 

[AndrewZinc]

Perhaps much of these is cultural shame. People start at a young age.

Perhaps, but it depends on the culture. In my own (U.K. / Scotland) children are taught at school that it's normal. Everybody does it. It's good to experiment. (In non-denominational schools anyway, not sure how Roman Catholic ones handle it.) So I can't just write it off as cultural pressure.

It seems odd that no one in this thread mentioned the biochemical factors behind sexuality. Perhaps healthy people that have gone through puberty and have normal hormone levels are supposed to have sexual thoughts. It almost seems that some are considering sexual thoughts in a single person as lust and wrong. The above statement about sexual dreams perhaps being a preoocupation with such in normal thought seems odd, for a healthy person.

I can only speak for myself as I only know my own thoughts. I think sexual thoughts too much. Perhaps I'm not a healthy person. In fact in God's eyes I'm corrupted and in need of a Saviour.

What's the difference between 'sexual thoughts' and lust, as I'm not sure they're different?

That's why we don't agree on this issue. I believe sin is anything that goes against God's law or is not honoring to Him. In that light, lusting or giving in to lustful desires is sinful.

That's a good description of sin. We can and do hurt other people but the key question is, does it hurt God?

 

[OGM]

I can only speak for myself as I only know my own thoughts. I think sexual thoughts too much. Perhaps I'm not a healthy person.

It is normal and healthy for people to think sexual thoughts. That is the way humans are designed. Why would that make you an unhealthy person? You statement is very concerning.

What's the difference between 'sexual thoughts' and lust, as I'm not sure they're different?

Having sexual thoughts is not the same as lusting. One can have sexual thoughts while lusting. One can have sexual thoughts without lusting. One can lust without have any sexual thoughts at all. In other words, one does not always involve the other. People think about sex and dream about sex all of the time.

[FONT=&quot]The think one of the problems is that so many have been taught that sexuality is bad. Single people often try to literally suppress their sexuality and sexual thoughts. This can cause issues such as self-hatred. Much of sexuality begins at puberty. Yet in our society marriage is often a decade or further in the future from puberty.

[/FONT]

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

I'm struggling with this. I have had a lot of practically detrimental health problems for my entire 30 years of life here on Earth. I prayed many times since I came to Christ in 2008 and just this year have begun a huge transformation in my physical, emotional and spiritual health. I have lost over nearly 50 pounds just since February and my intestines (ok my whole body) is healing very fast now. My hormones are getting back to normal, and that in turn has caused me to go from practically no libido to one that seems to be nearly in overdrive.

I am not married, nor sexually active, and will only become sexually active in marriage though I am no longer a virgin, which I fully regret.

I don't feel I am addicted to masturbation because i can fully control when I choose to do it. Though it does tend to be a daily occurrence. I do not lust after anybody in real life, nor those from my past.

I do fantasize about a man whom I have never met, one I don't even think exists, and does not have a head (like it's blocked out, missing, like removed from a photograph via photoshop.) I know my fantasizing is all about my "carnal need" and none of it revolves around tender, chivalrous ideas.

But since there is nothing that talks about masturbation in the bible, and the lust aspects are directed at those whom you know are a real person, I am just trying to make sure God is OK with what I am doing, in my own time, in my own space, without harming myself or others.

Can someone help me by providing scripture that can validate or invalidate my line of thinking? I know praying to God is the best answer, but I am one of those people who need proof such as with the written Word.

 

[anewman1993]

I'm struggling with this. I have had a lot of practically detrimental health problems for my entire 30 years of life here on Earth. I prayed many times since I came to Christ in 2008 and just this year have begun a huge transformation in my physical, emotional and spiritual health. I have lost over nearly 50 pounds just since February and my intestines (ok my whole body) is healing very fast now. My hormones are getting back to normal, and that in turn has caused me to go from practically no libido to one that seems to be nearly in overdrive.

I am not married, nor sexually active, and will only become sexually active in marriage though I am no longer a virgin, which I fully regret.

I don't feel I am addicted to masturbation because i can fully control when I choose to do it. Though it does tend to be a daily occurrence. I do not lust after anybody in real life, nor those from my past.

I do fantasize about a man whom I have never met, one I don't even think exists, and does not have a head (like it's blocked out, missing, like removed from a photograph via photoshop.) I know my fantasizing is all about my "carnal need" and none of it revolves around tender, chivalrous ideas.

But since there is nothing that talks about masturbation in the bible, and the lust aspects are directed at those whom you know are a real person, I am just trying to make sure God is OK with what I am doing, in my own time, in my own space, without harming myself or others.

Can someone help me by providing scripture that can validate or invalidate my line of thinking? I know praying to God is the best answer, but I am one of those people who need proof such as with the written Word.

Even though I'm a guy I understand kinda what you say when you think about a "headless" guy (or in my case girl). However, I still think its lust, just because its imaginary does not mean we don't lust after it.

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Even though I'm a guy I understand kinda what you say when you think about a "headless" guy (or in my case girl). However, I still think its lust, just because its imaginary does not mean we don't lust after it.

True, though from what I've seen in scripture, lust revolves around a real person, and THAT is sinful.

When I was a teenager lust consumed me, my hormones were crazy as they are in most teens, and I always felt ashamed after my sessions of self-gratification, at that time I was not a Believer, though I still felt ashamed. Now that I am a believer and have my teenage libido back (which i wish would go away) I find that I am not ashamed, that because I am not thinking of other real people in the act I am not lusting after someone, and I think that is key.

Do I feel that masturbation is always OK? No, I don't. But if we go about it the right way I think it is acceptable and not sinful.

I do not know if it in any way can glorify God other than proving to yourself and Him that you are not acting out on your "need" with another person out of wedlock.

I know that today I have begun praying for Him to guide me to find the special person whom I am supposed to marry. I am going to a Christian music concert today which I am very happy about, so perhaps I will meet my future husband there.

 

[OGM]

Sexual Attraction/Sexual Desire are quite natural...especially in young adults. It is part of being human. To actually stop sexual thoughts while you are single, you would have to make biochemically changes to your body, this could cause other issues. To be single and asexual and then to turn on a switch and become a sexual being when married is not easily possible. I am not saying to have premarital sex. I am saying that it is unrealistic to try to turn off your sexuality just because you are single. If hormone levels are normal, sexual thoughts, dreams and desires will happen.

I think there is some confusion to what lust is. Some people feel that if they have a sexual thought or desire, they are lusting. That can be a dangerous way of thinking.

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Sexual Attraction/Sexual Desire are quite natural...especially in young adults. It is part of being human. To actually stop sexual thoughts while you are single, you would have to make biochemically changes to your body, this could cause other issues. To be single and asexual and then to turn on a switch and become a sexual being when married is not easily possible. I am not saying to have premarital sex. I am saying that it is unrealistic to try to turn off your sexuality just because you are single. If hormone levels are normal, sexual thoughts, dreams and desires will happen.

I think there is some confusion to what lust is. Some people feel that if they have a sexual thought or desire, they are lusting. That can be a dangerous way of thinking.

OGM, thank you for posting. I'm not sure of your age, if that would even matter, but I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the desire I have since I have no valid way to alleviate it other than self-gratification. I'd like to pick your brain. You made a very good point that I hadn't thought of. Having normal hormone levels at any age at puberty and beyond is likely to cause these sexual desires. I don't mind sexual attraction but it's the desires I want reduced so that I can at least concentrate on normal, healthy things other than those desires. Do you have any tips that work for you (I know you are male) that could possibly help me and others reduce the severity of the desires? I feel like I am 16 again and it's getting to the point that even when I see a picture of an attractive man on the internet (his face alone) I go crazy. I don't know if this is some kind of test or if it's not from God or it's simply one of those things that I have to learn to tame but I really have no idea how to tame this beast. I feel so controlled by it. The desires, not the self-gratification.

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Well I feel like an idiot. I just found this site: biblestudytools[dot]com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/lust[dot]html and If this doesn't explain it as plainly as possible then I don't know what will.

So now am I not only feeling like a total failure at trying to live up to God's standards, but I have no idea how in the heck I am going to push through the ridiculousness that are my desires.

Dear Lord,
Please help me. Please guide me and help me remove these lustful thoughts and feelings from my being. I want to live for You. Please help me direct them into something useful, transform me and guide me to do your will.
In Jesus' name, Amen.

 

[Kingsdotter]

Well I feel like an idiot. I just found this site: biblestudytools[dot]com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/lust[dot]html and If this doesn't explain it as plainly as possible then I don't know what will.

So now am I not only feeling like a total failure at trying to live up to God's standards, but I have no idea how in the heck I am going to push through the ridiculousness that are my desires.

Dear Lord,
Please help me. Please guide me and help me remove these lustful thoughts and feelings from my being. I want to live for You. Please help me direct them into something useful, transform me and guide me to do your will.
In Jesus' name, Amen.

Amen! God bless u.Please be patient with God, He has heard ur prayers

 

[MyLordMySavior]

uhm... yes. The way I view if something is a sin or not, is... would you be okay performing the act in front of Jesus? Like, Him standing right next to you lol? If your gut says absolutely not then it is probably a sin hah.

 

[Johnnz]

Sexual Attraction/Sexual Desire are quite natural...especially in young adults. It is part of being human. To actually stop sexual thoughts while you are single, you would have to make biochemically changes to your body, this could cause other issues. To be single and asexual and then to turn on a switch and become a sexual being when married is not easily possible. I am not saying to have premarital sex. I am saying that it is unrealistic to try to turn off your sexuality just because you are single. If hormone levels are normal, sexual thoughts, dreams and desires will happen.

I think there is some confusion to what lust is. Some people feel that if they have a sexual thought or desire, they are lusting. That can be a dangerous way of thinking.

This is a very healthy post. Too many fail to distinguish between our normal, God given, hormone derived sexuality and sexual immorality. The latter requires deliberate intent to do something wrong. Masturbation does not necessitate being 'sinful'.

John
NZ

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

uhm... yes. The way I view if something is a sin or not, is... would you be okay performing the act in front of Jesus? Like, Him standing right next to you lol? If your gut says absolutely not then it is probably a sin hah.

Story:
Samantha is married to Michael, Jesus pops down from heaven for a meal with them. Samantha and her husband go up to their bedroom and have relations, Jesus pops into their bedroom.

Should Samantha and Michael be ashamed for Jesus to watch?

Story 2:
Samantha is married to Michael, Jesus pops into their bedroom while Samantha is performing [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on her husband. Should Samantha or Michael be ashamed for Jesus to watch?

While I understand what you mean, MyLordMySavior, I don't quite see how it's practical to apply that to everything. What happens in the marriage bed, is sacred. Now, I can see how this might be relevant for singles in their own bedroom while self-gratifying themselves, I think it might be best to think of Jesus watching you as a reminder that we are never alone. We may feel alone, we may have lustful thoughts or feelings but to be scared out of your mind by the thought that Jesus is actually watching you perform those acts in your own bedroom, while alone, and He is always watching you, judging you, is not how I feel my Savior is.

I know He knows what lust feels like even if He didn't experience it first-hand. I am not aware if he did have lustful thoughts, but I am going by what I have read in the Bible and and am saying that He didn't. But since God created us, and feels everything we feel, I can know that He knows how it feels to have these thoughts and feelings running rampant. I'd like to believe that it is Satan who put these thoughts and feelings into me, but I know it isn't. And I am grateful to believe that because had I believed it was all Satan I would be spinning around in my chair blabbering nonsense and believing the sky was falling.

I don't allow myself to be guilt-tripped into believing something. Yes Jesus watches me, though it's not like He is singling me out. And honestly, even if He did single me out while I was in the act of gratifying myself I have enough peace within me to know that He watches everybody, all the time, and God created our sexual desires, and He knows we are not perfect. There is no perfect human. Only humans trying to be perfect.

I have decided to stop reading certain a certain genre of novel, stop entertaining those thoughts and feelings. I will see how I do and I will keep praying to my Lord for forgiveness, understanding and help to overcome the the lust and other issues that plague my life.

 

[KitKatMatt]

uhm... yes. The way I view if something is a sin or not, is... would you be okay performing the act in front of Jesus? Like, Him standing right next to you lol? If your gut says absolutely not then it is probably a sin hah.

I wouldn't want to poop in front of Jesus, but I'm pretty sure it's not a sin.

 

[Johnnz]

OGM, thank you for posting. I'm not sure of your age, if that would even matter, but I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the desire I have since I have no valid way to alleviate it other than self-gratification.

I'd like to pick your brain. You made a very good point that I hadn't thought of. Having normal hormone levels at any age at puberty and beyond is likely to cause these sexual desires. I don't mind sexual attraction but it's the desires I want reduced so that I can at least concentrate on normal, healthy things other than those desires. Do you have any tips that work for you (I know you are male) that could possibly help me and others reduce the severity of the desires? I feel like I am 16 again and it's getting to the point that even when I see a picture of an attractive man on the internet (his face alone) I go crazy. I don't know if this is some kind of test or if it's not from God or it's simply one of those things that I have to learn to tame but I really have no idea how to tame this beast. I feel so controlled by it. The desires, not the self-gratification.

Reduction is not the most realistic way to approach your sexuality. Our God designed hormonal sexuality is part of His designs to get us seeking a mate. For a sexually mature single that can be an uncomfortable reality, but there is nothing inherently sinful from mere sexual awareness, in spite of many who seem to believe that. For those who can touch sensibly that is one way to cope with growing sexual tension. Natural drive plus constant guilt will seldom lead to wholesome sexual concepts.

There will be a certain amount of sexual imaginings and attraction for anyone with a stronger sex drive. Having sensible concepts helps keep that in balance.

John
NZ