Let us talk masturbation.

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Rhamiel

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The guilt is CAUSED by the way children are raised in religious circles. You are taught early to feel guilty about your body, and touching yourself. Guilt about masturbation is not a natural feeling.

Sex even between a married couple can increasingly get less satisfying with frequency, leading to the couple needing to "spice things up" in the bedroom. This does not mean that what they do are "distorted forms of sexual activities", it's just like when someone chooses a new and exotic meal after eating the same old one over and over and becoming tired of it. The same applies to masturbation.

what about murder?
is guilt from murder a "natural feeling"?

I am sure there are a lot of psychopaths who would say that it is not natural for them to feel that way, they were "born that way" after all

why would you assume that guilt from masturbation is not "natural"?
is this based on any cohesive and comprehensive philosophy or just based on the fact that you do not have a problem with the act?
 
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KitKatMatt

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what about murder?
is guilt from murder a "natural feeling"?

I am sure there are a lot of psychopaths who would say that it is not natural for them to feel that way, they were "born that way" after all

why would you assume that guilt from masturbation is not "natural"?
is this based on any cohesive and comprehensive philosophy or just based on the fact that you do not have a problem with the act?

Since masturbation has nothing to do with murder, I'm going to save my breath.
 
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Rhamiel

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I, uh, I really can't take this any further with you I suppose. We're clearly on vastly different levels, here.

I do not want to seem rude
you and me tend to get along and I think you have a good head on your shoulders :)

but if you expect other people to respect your beliefs you should be able to explain them
 
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KitKatMatt

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I do not want to seem rude
you and me tend to get along and I think you have a good head on your shoulders :)

but if you expect other people to respect your beliefs you should be able to explain them

I'm sorry, but it's kind of hard to explain "there is a difference between killing someone and giving yourself an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]".

We do tend to get along sometimes, but this is a passionate subject of mine. Considering the unnecessary sexual guilt caused by my church did not help my severe depression as I was growing up, and caused me to harm my body.
 
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KitKatMatt

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The Bible does not even mention masturbation being a sin.

Maybe you could count Leviticus 15:16 as even a mention?

"And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even." KJV

In which case, you take a bath and you're good. Doesn't say anything about a sin.
 
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Samuel_Rigby

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Maybe you could count Leviticus 15:16 as even a mention?

"And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even." KJV

In which case, you take a bath and you're good. Doesn't say anything about a sin.

This is referring to a nocturnal emission, not masturbation.

The Bible doesn't say anything about masturbation, that is true. But it does have a lot to say about lust. So what do you think about when you touch? (You don't have to answer. . .I really don't want to know) But if you claim to be among the infinitesimally-small number who are able to not think about anything when you touch, then you obviously have miraculous self-control. . .enough self-control to stop masturbating if you wanted.

Here is the biggest problem with masturbation IMO (besides lusting). . .you are falling short of God's best. You are choosing to miss out on something far better that God wants for you. . .i.e.--sharing those feelings and emotions with your spouse.

IMO, yes, masturbation is a sin. But it is no worse than any other sin. Certainly no worse than lying or swearing because God talks about those things explicitly while He doesn't say anything directly about masturbation. So again--IMO--if you touch, don't feel guilty. Ask God to help you do better next time. Ask Him to give you the strength and self-control to wait for His best.
 
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OGM

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This is referring to a nocturnal emission, not masturbation.

The Bible doesn't say anything about masturbation, that is true. But it does have a lot to say about lust. So what do you think about when you touch? (You don't have to answer. . .I really don't want to know) But if you claim to be among the infinitesimally-small number who are able to not think about anything when you touch, then you obviously have miraculous self-control. . .enough self-control to stop masturbating if you wanted.

Here is the biggest problem with masturbation IMO (besides lusting). . .you are falling short of God's best. You are choosing to miss out on something far better that God wants for you. . .i.e.--sharing those feelings and emotions with your spouse.

IMO, yes, masturbation is a sin. But it is no worse than any other sin. Certainly no worse than lying or swearing because God talks about those things explicitly while He doesn't say anything directly about masturbation. So again--IMO--if you touch, don't feel guilty. Ask God to help you do better next time. Ask Him to give you the strength and self-control to wait for His best.
Then based on what you are saying...nocturnal emissions should be sinful too. You have sexual tension build up with a release that often contains very sexual thoughts. Thoughts which because they happen during dream time, maybe actually go in more erotic directions than when awake.

Are you saying that because the thoughts are during sleep...they get a pass?!
 
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Samuel_Rigby

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I'm usually not one to quote scripture for arguments, but I must ask: how do you know that quote refers to nocturnal emission? It says nothing about that.

Actually it could refer to either nocturnal emissions or intercourse. Both rendered a man unclean until evening. There is no sin involved here. Uncleanness was not sinful. The atonement for sin was always a blood sacrifice, not taking a bath and being unclean for a period of time.
 
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Samuel_Rigby

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Then based on what you are saying...nocturnal emissions should be sinful too. You have sexual tension build up with a release that often contains very sexual thoughts. Thoughts which because they happen during dream time, maybe actually go in more erotic directions than when awake.

Are you saying that because the thoughts are during sleep...they get a pass?!

Sexual thoughts do not always accompany nocturnal emissions. When they do it is the lust that is the sin, not the wet dream itself.
 
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AndrewZinc

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I'm in the camp that it's not a sin in itself but lust is, and so that will almost always make it sinful.

I've read this entire thread (pat on the back!) and can't be bothered quoting everyone but here are some more thoughts:

- Conviction is a big indicator. Do I feel guilty after doing it? (And I don't think that is conditioning for me anyway - I was taught at school it is normal and it wasn't mentioned at home or at church) Would I be ashamed if people found out? Do I push God out of my mind?

- Nocturnal emissions: Of course we lose control when asleep but I believe our dreams and how we act in them reflect our daily worries/concerns/thoughts. If I have a sexual dream, perhaps I'm too preoccupied as such in normal thought. Not sure if we can sin when asleep. Ask a theologian!

Sin affects all areas of our lives, including our sexuality. It means we all have to work to become pure and spotless. Of course, we won't achieve that ultimate goal until heaven but we keep trying. The Holy Spirit takes us on a process of sanctification (making clean, i.e. we sin less) and God forgives us through Jesus' blood when we fall. I'm speaking as one who struggles. But God.
 
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TraciDee

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I personally do not feel it would be bringing glory to God. I don't have a great understanding of how masturbation works, but I'm under the impression you have to be mentally or visually stimulated to make the process happen. In accordance to God's will for me and out of respect for my future husband, I intentionally work not to have these lustful thoughts. Therefore, I will not perpetuate any fantasies through masturbation.
 
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TraciDee

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What if we are not meant to have a spouse?

To be honest, even if I do marry, I probably won't have sex with my spouse (never been sexually attracted to anyone and I don't desire that).

Serious question: if you don't feel sexual attraction or desires, do you still require or wish for sexual stimulation through masturbation? It seems like if you don't desire it, then does the morality of it even matter?
 
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KitKatMatt

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Serious question: if you don't feel sexual attraction or desires, do you still require or wish for sexual stimulation through masturbation? It seems like if you don't desire it, then does the morality of it even matter?

I'm not attracted to actual human beings. I still feel sexual desires and attraction (towards fictional things, though), and I do touch.

So yes, it matters. However, I don't think it's a sin, which is why I ask questions to those who think it is.
 
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