Legal Restrictions on the Gospel

[GodsoldierClintus]

So I was at Congress this Sunday...that's a Salvation Army meeting in South QLD which we hadn't had for years apparently. There were at least 1000 Salvos in the city. We had four bands playing in Brisbane City. But we were not allowed to preach as such - the only way we were allowed to share Jesus was through the music, and if someone came up and asked us what we were doing. We were all in our uniforms and all...but because of legal restrictions we really couldn't evangelise. It sucked cause I would have gotten stuck into it, but was instead just forced to "enjoy" the day and look as open as possible to conversation with the public.


I know that we are called to follow the law of the land - but I dunno I was just very annoyed that we couldn't share the gospel directly...

Is this the cost of being registered as a non-profit organisation?

 

[ScMay]

Was it legal or Salvos policy? Even though they are explicitly Christian I could think of a reason they would want to limit it.

No idea what restrictions being non-profit does (though didn't think it would stop that... but I'm no lawyer)

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

It definitely wouldn't have been Salvo policy. if we could we'd be out there everyday.

 

[tgg]

It depends on what you wanted to say. If your gospel contains prejudice towards people of different races, gender inequality, and homophobia then I could understand the restrictions.

Other than that, I don't see a problem with you guys being allowed to preach.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

I think we'd just be preaching you know like the one about Jesus and salvation? I think it was because we were in the main part of the city, you're not allowed to hassle people as they walk through. And certainly because we were all in uniform we couldn't do it, it'd probably get us into trouble with the council. It's sad at an attempt to replicate something that use to work in the past, but can't because of change in times.

 

[ScMay]

I think we'd just be preaching you know like the one about Jesus and salvation? I think it was because we were in the main part of the city, you're not allowed to hassle people as they walk through. And certainly because we were all in uniform we couldn't do it, it'd probably get us into trouble with the council. It's sad at an attempt to replicate something that use to work in the past, but can't because of change in times.

Even if the council wouldn't chuck up a fuss it is a smart move by the Salvos to limit it. The Salvos as far as I am aware are an organisation centred around helping the needy in the community, at least thats the impression I think they have presented to the general public. To go around preaching would interfere with this since it can offend people and can absorb a lot of time. Too often people who preach get so caught in it they don't realise all they are doing is insulting/angering/etc. people and wasting time, thus to prevent this a blanket ban is put on all. Sucks for the ones who don't go overboard but is necessary for the reputation and works of the organisation. Thats my theory at least.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

The Salvation Army is a christian church, started specifically with aim to spread the Christian gospel to the poor - often mistaken as a charity. It is a misinterpretation that soldiers of my generation will get rid of. Because there's no point in having a Salvation Army if souls aren't saved. Who do you think Salvation Army officers are? They are all Christians who have given their lives to serve the poor. Although there are a lot of volunteers, and probably even a large number of them aren't Christians, the Army was about reaching those that society has left with the gospel. Right now the Army is going through a spiritual revival, but if society sees us as simply as a social organisation to help the poor then they've got another thing coming. If we continue to slide away from our origins well then...it'll be the death of the Salvation Army. We will either be restored to what we were before that is a Christian Mission, or we'll just cease to exist.

 

[ScMay]

The Salvation Army is a christian church, started specifically with aim to spread the Christian gospel to the poor - often mistaken as a charity. It is a misinterpretation that soldiers of my generation will get rid of. Because there's no point in having a Salvation Army if souls aren't saved. Who do you think Salvation Army officers are? They are all Christians who have given their lives to serve the poor. Although there are a lot of volunteers, and probably even a large number of them aren't Christians, the Army was about reaching those that society has left with the gospel. Right now the Army is going through a spiritual revival, but if society sees us as simply as a social organisation to help the poor then they've got another thing coming. If we continue to slide away from our origins well then...it'll be the death of the Salvation Army. We will either be restored to what we were before that is a Christian Mission, or we'll just cease to exist.

I hope you realise that this spiritual revival will likely hurt the Salvos rather than help it grow. Doing so will cause all non-christian volunteers to leave, most christian volunteers who joined to do charity only and cease the many donations (at least in Australia) since most public appeals for donations are at present done under the name of charity (not supporting preachers).

I know if you are right I will cease all donations to the Salvos (Red Shield appeal will get no gold coins from me!).

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

All the money from Red Shield goes towards our charity work alone and not ministerial work that is true. All our churches are basically self-funded. That's the problem being registered as a non-profit charity I guess. I guess a lot of people would disagree with our beliefs but are happy for us to continue our social work. What I'm saying is there's really no point in wasting out energies in doing the social work if we cannot communicate the gospel. We as an organisation of Christians believe that people will be condemned in hell if they do not find Christ Jesus. If our charitable efforts do not allow us to present the solution to the great threat then...well - we're not doing our job. Don't know when this will change - I guess Red shield will always be a part of pure social work because of the legal issues behind it - that is behind the "charity" arm of the Army.

Don't donate if you don't feel comfortable anyway...its the fact that we are Christians and we spend all our efforts as an organisation that makes us so efficient. There is no other aid organisation that runs on 85% efficiency.

 

[Monarchist]

I hope you realise that this spiritual revival will likely hurt the Salvos rather than help it grow. Doing so will cause all non-christian volunteers to leave, most christian volunteers who joined to do charity only and cease the many donations (at least in Australia) since most public appeals for donations are at present done under the name of charity (not supporting preachers).

I know if you are right I will cease all donations to the Salvos (Red Shield appeal will get no gold coins from me!).

The whole Idea of the Salvos is to save souls. You didnt know that?
Good idea Mr ScMay, you should give your money (Wow a Gold coin) to a good atheist charity organisation. Yeah Right. .
I am sure the Salvos will get on fine without your gold coin.
People wont stop giving to the Salvos because they are a Christian organisation, because the Salvos are trustworthy, and giving to less fortunate is human nature. They will also still volunteer for those same reasons. Selfishness is not totally part of this countries ethos
Rather than the atheistic charities that skim 30 to 90%.
You make me laugh.

 

[norbie]

I have been assosiated with the Salvos in Darwin/Nhulunbuy with the flying Caption Parker. (maybe Major now) from Darwin.
What I got out of it was that the "Creed" of the Salvos is 'Soup - Soap - Salvation' To preach there in public would not be right for the Salvos I think.
Salvos to help people first and then tell them: why?
There is no much point in telling people about our Lord if they are hungry, depressed, on alcohol or drugs and so on. If you can help people and then tell them you did it in the name of our Lord - you will make people think about Jesus.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Indeed that is the way of the entire army...but there are many also that do not need our "help" in an economic sense. Those people need to hear the gospel too!

 

[ScMay]

Indeed that is the way of the entire army...but there are many also that do not need our "help" in an economic sense. Those people need to hear the gospel too!

While you are well within your rights to tell people about the gospel I don't think it is a good idea to get the salvos to do that as it would be detrimental to the focus on good works. I think it would be better to have a seperate organisation for that as doing both world hurt your support base thus limiting the excellent charity done.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Well that's up to us to decide isn't it lol?

 

[ScMay]

Well that's up to us to decide isn't it lol?

Yeah, but it doesn't hurt to listen to someone elses opinion. If you disagree with the my predicted results or don't care that it may damage the charity side of the Salvos then go ahead, if you agree with my opinions stop. Its your organisation not mine so I'm not going to try and stop you, I'll just try and change your mind about it.

 

[Anduril]

I couldn't think of a better organisation to spread the gospel than the Salvos.

 

[Monarchist]

ScMay does it again. Here is a quick update for you SM. They are the SALVATION army. Do you get it yet? They are about saving souls. Understand? The charity is but one side of the work they do. Catching on yet? Is any of what is being said giving you a inkling of there stance? If you are missing out on the underlying message they have always held, read whats at the bottom of every one of GsC posts. Go start your own charity organisation if you dont agree with the way the Salvos do there work. You are so disrespectful of one of the greatest charity organisations ever, because your above Christianity. Its just so arrogant.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

It's alright Monarchist.Another Soldier sent me this just now.

It is a bad sign for the Christianity of this day that it provokes so little opposition. If there were no other evidence for its being wrong, I should know that when the church and the world can
jog along comfortably together you may be sure there is something wrong. The world has not altered. Its spirit is exactly the same as it ever was, and if Christians were equally faithful and devoted to the Lord and separated from the world, living so that their lives were a reproof to all ungodliness, the world would hate them as much as it ever did. It is the Church that has altered, not the world.

(Catherine Booth, Aggressive Christianity, 1888, p.17)

It is not surprising if any changes to the way Salvation Army will shock society. So it should. And not surprising if people have resistance to our message or our gospel. We should boast in the cross all the more if that comes.

Everyone loves the Salvation Army...unfortunately we're going to have to change that if we're going to maintain our true purpose. To demonstrate real love...will mean we will have to day the things they don't want to hear, and show them the things they don't want to see.

I was perhaps being a bit strong about removing our charity side of our Army...that will always remain...but on the Spiritual side - we've been deceived and we need to fight. If we don't do it, then God will choose someone else.

It's good that people don't like what we're doing. We are fools for Christ's sake. I don't think we should be angry at people for disagreeing with us...we should be concerned if they are agreeing with us and still don't believe. If the gospel made sense to people and they still don't believe then that is a tragedy, for they will never be saved. But the reason so many believe is because God has not allowed them to understand yet, we must keep praying and keep fighting. Opposition is a good thing - God says we will be persecuted.

Important thing is when there is persecution to act in love. Remember when Jesus speaks about loving thy enemy - man that's so hard...but we have to believe it because God loves his enemies too!

Salvos will have to remember they use to be called the Christian Mission. And the name changed when William Booth sent a transmission around to all the other territories and he decided to replace the words "we are a volunteer army" with "Salvation Army" because we aren't volunteers - We are Christians who will dedicate our lives to saving souls. That and the other time when he had to send one transmission to all the other territories and to save money so he sent only one word - others.

Which brings us back to moot point - love God, love others. And do it until it kills you. Amen.

 

[Tavita]

Wow!

Reading this thread has brought back memories..

When I first got saved twenty nine years ago I joined the Salvation Army as a soldier. Every Saturday morning the band and a few soldier volunteers would meet in the main street and we would sing and PREACH the good news about Jesus with a loud speaker. Preaching in the street was definitely not against the law back then. One year thousands of Sallies convened in another city and we went out into the streets singing and preaching and witnessing one on one with people.

The Salvation Army has always preached Christ in the streets. That's how William Booth started out. However, he discovered the biblical truth about feeding and clothing the poor while preaching. Of course, in those days, back in England, there was a lot more poverty than there is today. I mean REAL poverty.

The Salvation Army is known for it's work with the poor but people don't seem to realize it's a denomination of the Church first and foremost. And I think maybe the Salvation Army is seen as a charity organization in people's minds because she hasn't been seen preaching and singing in public like she use to do.

Some persecution against ALL the Church may wake her up a bit... says she, ducking for cover....

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

O that's awesome! Which corp was that? I love to hear stories about the army. (Since I'm only newly converted)

It's sad that we can't do it anymore, there may be ways around it - I'm hoping it was just Brisbane City Council not wanting us to preach in the main street of the city itself. But I am planning on taking a few soldiers and doing some things over the summer so it'll be interesting what the officers will say about that.