Legal Battle Erupts Between Surrogate Mom and Gay Dads

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/legal-battle-erupts-between-surrogate-mom-and-gay-125272034082.html

Bud Lake and Manuel Santos with baby Carmen, who is at the center of a surrogacy dispute in Thailand. (Photo: Facebook)

Two dads who had hoped to bring a baby daughter home to Spain from Thailand after she was born there via surrogate six months ago have instead been stranded in Bangkok with her ever since, as the birth mom has changed her mind. Now the fates of the American biological father, Gordon “Bud” Lake, his Spanish husband, Manuel Santos, the surrogate mom, Patidta Kusolsang, and baby Carmen are in the hands of a Thai court, which will hold a hearing on the custody matter on Thursday.

The dads, who live in Valencia, believe Kusolsang changed her mind because she found out that they are gay.

All this because our surrogate doesn’t want Carmen to be raised by gay parents, and the law that should give me full parental powers excludes me from obtaining them because I am gay.”

 

[rambot]

As much as I appreciate how awful this must feel, I can't help but think that information like that should be shared before hand. The only reason I think that is so that is to avoid this kind of situation.

 

[HannahT]

People change their minds all the time with adoptions.

 

[KitKatMatt]

I thought it was known that adoption via surrogacy was a bit of a messy thing? Being that the surrogate mothers sometimes change their minds and such.

I don't know the laws involving this sort of thing, but I've heard of cases where surrogate mothers decide to keep the child for whatever reason before, and honestly I have no idea which way is the right way to side.

The idea of adopting via surrogacy confuses me so much anyways. It's not like there aren't thousands of babies waiting to be adopted right now.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

This isn't an adoption. The lady that carried the baby has no biological connections. The baby belongs to one of the fathers and a bio mom, that donated her eggs and isn't in the picture. The only one that's trying to stop the bio father from taking his baby to the US, isn't even related to the baby.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

It's not like there aren't thousands of babies waiting to be adopted right now.

Try adopting them and see how easy that is.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Try adopting them and see how easy that is.

Never said that the adoption process (in the USA anyways, not sure about other countries) was a breeze. Just saying I don't understand it.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

I thought it was known that adoption via surrogacy was a bit of a messy thing? Being that the surrogate mothers sometimes change their minds and such.

I don't know the laws involving this sort of thing, but I've heard of cases where surrogate mothers decide to keep the child for whatever reason before, and honestly I have no idea which way is the right way to side.

The idea of adopting via surrogacy confuses me so much anyways. It's not like there aren't thousands of babies waiting to be adopted right now.

Adopting a baby can also be an incredibly complex and emotionally tumultuous process, too. Our former minister and his wife went through the anguish of two terminated adoptions in the United States because the mothers changed their minds after the babies were born (and in one case had been with them for months), and then invested their hearts and years worth of time into adopting from Russia only to have Putin cancel all adoptions to Americans. They'd already bonded with the children they were going to adopt and had everything but the final visit finalized when he just cruelly halted everything.

In LA surrogacy isn't that uncommon - for various reasons. Sperm and egg donations aren't unusual either, for hetero and homosexual couples, also for various reasons. I think this is far more complicated due to two nationalities and other circumstances.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

If the mom wants to keep them than she should be able to. I am not a woman, nor am I a woman who has had a child. perhaps a mom can enlighten me to whether I am wrong or not, but mothers tend to form deep emotional bonds to those they give birth to. It looks like on a genetic level the child isn't even hers, but I view this as a problem of rich foreigners trying to power play a poor thai woman. She loves the child as well. She suffered the birth, and she suffered the 9 months, and now she wants to keep it. Perhaps she should at last return the money to them that they paid her if she wants to keep it.

 

[SuperCloud]

This isn't an adoption. The lady that carried the baby has no biological connections. The baby belongs to one of the fathers and a bio mom, that donated her eggs and isn't in the picture. The only one that's trying to stop the bio father from taking his baby to the US, isn't even related to the baby.

And yet... we are led to believe women seeing a naked penis flashed, or more especially a penis placed in their vagina without their consent, is "traumatic." The penis has no biological connection to the women. Well.... unless it's incest.

But a woman carrying for and nurturing a growing baby inside her body is just.... "Meh... no big deal." A shrug of the shoulders. No emotional connection whatsoever.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

As much as I appreciate how awful this must feel, I can't help but think that information like that should be shared before hand. The only reason I think that is so that is to avoid this kind of situation.

These homosexual men shouldn't have hidden the fact they were homosexual. The biological sperm donor should not have hidden the fact that he was homosexual from the surrogate woman he'd enlisted to carry his sperm to term.

But first and foremost, these two men should have done the research and found out about Thai law.
They live in America but they went to Thailand to shop for a surrogate?
Unlikely they'll alter the laws or traditional culture there with this bleating. I pray the mother wins and for the sake of her baby girl.

 

[SuperCloud]

These homosexual men shouldn't have hidden the fact they were homosexual. The biological sperm donor should not have hidden the fact that he was homosexual from the surrogate woman he'd enlisted to carry his sperm to term.

But first and foremost, these two men should have done the research and found out about Thai law.
They live in America but they went to Thailand to shop for a surrogate?
Unlikely they'll alter the laws or traditional culture there with this bleating. I pray the mother wins and for the sake of her baby girl.

"Her body, her choice."

I guess not in this situation. If a heterosexual American man impregnates and American woman, the queen can do whatever she wants and the biological father has no say. But take homosexual American men and give them plane tickets to Thai Land, and the American feminists will flip flop in a heartbeat on their sacred choice. Not even their country. Maybe Obama and the American left--under Queen Hillary--might want to impose economic sanctions against Thailand.




(On an interesting note: "Thai" means "free person." and "Thailand" means "Land of the Free." The Thai called themselves this to distinguish themselves from their Khmer neighbors who had slavery. Thailand never had slavery. Unlike the USA. And Thailand was the "Land of the Free" long before people in the USA came up with that phrase.)

 

[HannahT]

Quite frankly - I don't trust the media. They may have told the woman they were gay, but want to use that for the media exposure. It's not like the media has NEVER done that before!

 

[Lavendar Frog]

"Her body, her choice."

I guess not in this situation. If a heterosexual American man impregnates and American woman, the queen can do whatever she wants and the biological father has no say. But take homosexual American men and give them plane tickets to Thai Land, and the American feminists will flip flop in a heartbeat on their sacred choice. Not even their country. Maybe Obama and the American left--under Queen Hillary--might want to impose economic sanctions against Thailand.

Firstly, slavery has no place in this thread. Nor do I know how on earth interjection of American Feminists entered into this discussion.
These are two male homosexuals and the mother of the little girl is a Thai citizen. Personal angst over women's equality in America isn't relevant here either.

Secondly, this woman is indeed arguing her body her choice. And prayerfully she'll win. As is the case in America where by and large the mother's rights are typically paramount in the case of children, custody and even surrogacy in most cases.
Homosexuals aren't able to bear children. They have to deal with the hurdles they'll encounter when they go against what nature and God ordained.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

Quite frankly - I don't trust the media. They may have told the woman they were gay, but want to use that for the media exposure. It's not like the media has NEVER done that before!

That's a distinct possibility. Especially if the reporter is homosexual. It could be a means of pursuing the homosexual agenda within and against Thailand.

It is a wait and see, at this point. Meanwhile, Christians may want to pray for mother an child. Because there's something very off about a homosexual male couple who travel all the way to Thailand to employ a surrogate.
Maybe because it's cheaper than in America? Fewer laws that surround the deal?
How much care could these men have invested in this pursuit if they didn't even do the research on Thai law as relates to surrogacy?

 

[SuperCloud]

Firstly, slavery has no place in this thread.

So says someone with a Confederate flag draped over a cross in her avatar. The subject matter entails the Thai. And I gave what "Thai" and "Thailand" means and why it meant what it means, its origins, distinguishing it from its Khmer neighbors who owned slaves And the Thai did not.

For the Thai that is as important to them as the US Constitution and the US Revolutionary War.

Just because you have a Confederate flag draped over a cross in your avatar does not mean you get to tell me how to think. I've read a book on Thailand in the past out of curiosity about Thailand. That's how I know that "Thai" means free person and "Thailand" means land of the free.

Nor do I know how on earth interjection of American Feminists entered into this discussion

I already pointed out how.

These are two male homosexuals...

Really?

...and the mother of the little girl is a Thai citizen.

No! She is?

You know what "Thai" means right? It translates as "One who is subject to American and Confederate opinions and demands." And being a "Thai citizen" essentially means that they're subjects of the Kings and aristocrats sitting in the big white palace in D.C.

Personal angst over women's equality in America isn't relevant here either.

I didn't say anything about women's equality. I said feminism. Do you regard the KKK as white peoples equality movement or something?

Secondly, this woman is indeed arguing her body her choice.

Yes, the Thai woman is. As I mentioned "Thai" means "free person." But ever 4 years Americans elect a King (maybe one day a Queen) to preside over their empire. So, maybe the American monarchy may want to retaliate against this "Thai" (free person) by imposing economic sanctions against "Thailand" (the Land of the Free).

And prayerfully she'll win.

The Thai and mainly Buddhist, just so you know, they're not predominately Nathan Bedford Forrest Christians.

Homosexuals aren't able to bear children. They have to deal with the hurdles they'll encounter when they go against what nature and God ordained.

Well... technically homosexuals are capable. And plenty of them have been married to people of the opposite sex and produced kids. What the "me, me, me..." American culture has trouble grasping is that making the choice if you're gay not to wed a person of the opposite sex, but to only have sex with persons of your same sex, is kind of like smoking crack cocaine, it comes with consequences.

Now, they could adopt kids. But why should that happen when we can mobilize society to bend over backwards to enable our lifestyle and our desires. Maybe we can even get the Kings in that palace called the White House to wage economic warfare against the Thai (free people)? Maybe.

But what would I know. I'm just a black guy that never read a book.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

So says someone with a Confederate flag draped over a cross in her avatar.

Yes, that's my avatar. And again, racism has no place in this thread.
If you'd like to learn about American history in the south and in the slave owning states of the north, and the Civil War, there are threads wherein you can avail yourself of that opportunity.

The subject matter entails the Thai. And I gave what "Thai" and "Thailand" means and why it meant what it means, its origins, distinguishing it from its Khmer neighbors who owned slaves And the Thai did not.

All of which is off topic here. Read the rules for posting.

For the Thai that is as important to them as the US Constitution and the US Revolutionary War.

Meaningless, irrelevant, in this thread. Off topic.

Just because you have a Confederate flag draped over a cross in your avatar does not mean you get to tell me how to think. I've read a book on Thailand in the past out of curiosity about Thailand. That's how I know that "Thai" means free person and "Thailand" means land of the free.

You exagerate.
I've not told you how to think. I've told you that you're off topic. The rules for posting in threads are very clear. Perhaps you should refresh your recollection and read them.

I already pointed out how.

No, you went on a short flare about Feminism as you escalated in your off topic remarks.

Really?

Yes. That's the topic here. Two homosexual males and the surrogate mother of a Thai baby girl.

No! She is?

YES!Isn't it grand when the topic is brought to your attention?

You know what "Thai" means right? It translates as "One who is subject to American and Confederate opinions and demands." And being a "Thai citizen" essentially means that they're subjects of the Kings and aristocrats sitting in the big white palace in D.C.

Ah, now you're sinking into Anti-American slurs.
I'll save myself from the rest.
God bring you peace.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

That's a distinct possibility. Especially if the reporter is homosexual. It could be a means of pursuing the homosexual agenda within and against Thailand.

It is a wait and see, at this point. Meanwhile, Christians may want to pray for mother an child. Because there's something very off about a homosexual male couple who travel all the way to Thailand to employ a surrogate.
Maybe because it's cheaper than in America? Fewer laws that surround the deal?
How much care could these men have invested in this pursuit if they didn't even do the research on Thai law as relates to surrogacy?

Exactly, I view this more of a "I am an American, and I want things my way. Their laws and customs be darned!" They should have read up more on this sort of thing before they even tried it. I hope the mother wins, in this case. I think the mother should also return their money to them, if they have already given her money for it. Being American doesn't give you the right to override foreign laws of foreign countries. I guess they think their emotional appeal is going to win the day? Well the mother has the same appeal, and I am pretty sure the government of Thailand will side with the Thai woman.

 

[rambot]

Well the baby has been born so this isn't a her body her choice situation.

 

[SuperCloud]

Yes, that's my avatar. And again, racism has no place in this thread.

Racism? Are you admitting to being racist or something?

Or do have trouble confusing Thailand with the US South given your asinine comment below. Thailand existed before the United States and they called themselves "Thai" (free person") before either the US or American feminism were created.

If you'd like to learn about American history in the south and in the slave owning states of the north, and the Civil War, there are threads wherein you can avail yourself of that opportunity.

You're off topic and goading. The history of the U.S. South and American slavery has nothing to do with this thread.

Thai (free people) derived their names to distinguish themselves from their Khmer neighbors (who owned slaves). That historical identity is as much attached to the Thai's as American feminists and their homosexual allies wrap the American flag and US Constitution around them.

I'm aware understanding other nationalities outside the USA is not a traditional strong point for someone of the American nationality.

All of which is off topic here. Read the rules for posting.

It's not off topic as the woman is Thai. And her "Thai" identity is as valid and relevant as the "US Constitution" and "being American" is to an American. Furthermore, the homosexual protagonists are attempting to appeal to the US empire to rouse support no less than that coalition of American homosexuals and feminist due over Russia.

Meaningless, irrelevant, in this thread. Off topic.

You exagerate.
I've not told you how to think. I've told you that you're off topic. The rules for posting in threads are very clear. Perhaps you should refresh your recollection and read them.

Just because you have a Confederate flag draped over a cross in your avatar does not mean you get to tell me how to think. I've read a book on Thailand in the past out of curiosity about Thailand. That's how I know that "Thai" means free person and "Thailand" means land of the free.

Reference to woman's "Thai-ness" is not so different than some American telling British people discussing some news about an American woman that had a gun and shot a British man in Atalanta that attacked her, that the woman is "American" and perceptions about "rights" and "freedoms" about that even if the British object.

But I'm kind of thinking the US wants to be a monarchy empire running around the world telling other nations they must think and do as the US say.

No, you went on a short flare about Feminism as you escalated in your off topic remarks.

War is in part about building alliances. The LGBTQ movement is allied with Black-Americans and feminists in the political sector. Period. Life on life terms.

So, feminist will be allied to the gay couple in this story. If for whatever reason the protagonist was a single heterosexual male then feminist would support the Thai woman.

Ah, now you're sinking into Anti-American slurs.
I'll save myself from the rest.
God bring you peace.

As in what way... through a lit, illuminate cross on my front lawn, by some die-hard unionist Democrats from Alabama?

God gives me enough peace. And it does not come through you. It would be a better character trait if you didn't mock God with your "God bring you peace," given it contradicts the tone and diction of your replies to me. If one is dishonest about small things (like $5, or "God bring you peace") then they will surely be dishonest about bigger things (like $20,000, or setting fire to a Black Church).

If you didn't agree with me about feminists being certain or likely to support the gay couple, and whereas they would not support a heterosexual man in same position, then all you really need to say was "I think you're totally off base with that" or "You're totally wrong about that."

You don't have to agree with me. But you're not going to tell me how to think. And how I think is that the feminist allies of homosexuals are going to be hypocrites. (by supporting a gay man or couple in this whereas they would not for a hetero dude.)