LDS LDS Pentecostal overlooked text

[Daniel Marsh]

Hebrews 1:1, In many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created

 

[Ironhold]

And?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Hebrews 1:1, In many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created

and?

 

[Peter1000]

Hebrews 1:1, In many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created

And?

BTW this scripture proves that God the Father is a separate entity than His Son Jesus Christ.

1) God the Father would never be an heir of anything. He is the Father. Jesus, His Son is an heir of all things, as are we, being joint heirs with Christ in all that the Father has.

2) God the Father used His Son Jesus Christ to create the heavens and the earth.

3) God the Father is using His Son Jesus Christ to speak to us, not Him personally.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hebrews 1 clearly says that God using prophets to speak to his people is past, thus ruling out your so-called prophets because today, God is only speaking through Jesus alone.

"in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son"

Unless, your Prophet is Jesus himself, then He is not a prophet of God. Jesus is Prophet, King and Priest to the Church.

Colossians 1:18
He is the head of his body, the church; he is the source of the body's life. He is the first-born Son, who was raised from death, in order that he alone might have the first place in all things.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hebrews 1 clearly says that God using prophets to speak to his people is past, thus ruling out your so-called prophets because today, God is only speaking through Jesus alone.

"in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son"

Unless, your Prophet is Jesus himself, then He is not a prophet of God. Jesus is Prophet, King and Priest to the Church.

Colossians 1:18
He is the head of his body, the church; he is the source of the body's life. He is the first-born Son, who was raised from death, in order that he alone might have the first place in all things.

Jesus Christ IS the head the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yes, the same Jesus Christ who was the first-born Son, who died and rose again, and saved us all. We all communicate to God in His Name. He leads us all.

A prophet (Peter, Paul, Moses, etc) is an earthly servant of Christ (again, it's Christ at the head) to help us on our way and in communion with Christ. That is why Christ appoint Peter to serve of the earthly church in ancient days, and also called Paul up from the persecutors. God, being unchanging, likewise continues to call servants today.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Hebrews 1 clearly says that God using prophets to speak to his people is past, thus ruling out your so-called prophets because today, God is only speaking through Jesus alone.

"in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son"

Unless, your Prophet is Jesus himself, then He is not a prophet of God. Jesus is Prophet, King and Priest to the Church.

Colossians 1:18
He is the head of his body, the church; he is the source of the body's life. He is the first-born Son, who was raised from death, in order that he alone might have the first place in all things.

Eph 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of theknowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[NYCGuy]

Eph 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of theknowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Where is the office of pastor in the LDS church?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Where is the office of pastor in the LDS church?

It's the Bishop.

We don't claim that the positions they used then are exactly the same as we do now. We have Patriarchs which they called evangelist. We call the boys of 14 teachers and they go Home Teaching to different families with an Elder in the ward. I doubt they had a program called Home Teaching or that they let 14 year old boys teach.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There is no proof that Peter and Paul were prophets like Moses.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Your definition of Elder does not even meet secular ideas of the word.

eld·er1
ˈeldər/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of one or more out of a group of related or otherwise associated people) of a greater age.
   "my elder daughter"
   synonyms: older, senior, big
   "his elder brother"
   • 
     

noun

1. 1.
   a person of greater age than someone specified.
   "schoolchildren were no less fascinated than their elders"

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Acts 20:17-30 - Elders, Bishops and Pastors: One Office or Three?

The link above proves Biblically that Bishop and Pastor are not the same thing.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The office of Elders, pastors and bishops

more information at thejlink

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is no proof that Peter and Paul were prophets like Moses.

All of them are men of God, called lead the church, authorized to receive revelations from God. I believe an unchanging God continues this today.

Do you?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

All of them are men of God, called lead the church, authorized to receive revelations from God. I believe an unchanging God continues this today.

Do you?

God's Nature does not change, that is why He is Not a Man who was exulted into Godhood. However, how He works does change which is why We have New and Old Covenants. Read Hebrews chapters 7 thru 10

I think it is Hebrews 13:8 that says Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. That too is speaking of his divine nature, not about changes in dispensations.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hebrews 1:1-2 is about how God worked in times past vs today.

Today is through Jesus Alone, not prophets like Moses which is why the NT canon is closed. If there were prophets like Moses today, then the Cannon would be open and who will determine what books will be added to the Bible?

 

[Jane_Doe]

God's Nature does not change, that is why He is Not a Man who was exulted into Godhood. However, how He works does change which is why We have New and Old Covenants.

Hebrews 1:1-2 is about how God worked in times past vs today.

Except God continued to give us leaders after Christ's arrival (Peter, Paul, etc), and more revelations as a continuing part of the New Covenant. A Bible believing person simply cannot claim that "there are no leaders called of God in the New Covenant or any new revelations".

If there were prophets like Moses today, then the Cannon would be open

The cannon is still open-- God still speaks. The idea that an unchanging God shuts up is foreign to scripture.

who will determine what books will be added to the Bible?

Additional revelation are given to leaders called of God, as Paul and Peter were. It is God who decides who leads and what words are given.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

In Book of Rev in chapter 22:18... makes such claim.

As does, many Bible Believing Christians. It is called dispensationalism.

 

[Jane_Doe]

In Book of Rev in chapter 22:18... makes such claim.

Rev 22:18 refers to the Book of Revelation. Not the Bible-- the Bible hadn't even been assemble yet and won't for years. In fact, much of the Bible hadn't even been written yet, including the Gospel of John. Obviously the Rev verse is not be be interrupted to refer to a (nonexistent at the time) volume which was still being written, including new books by the same author who wrote the Rev verse..

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The fact is the books of the Bible were in fact assembled and disturbed to the churches. Whenever, someone traveled they would take a copy of the scrolls available to them to other churches. This is a well known part of the social or verbal traditions of the times. The only reason councils were necessary was to confirm what is believed in order to respond to cults or hearsay that popped up like Arianism. There are early lists which are recorded in a book by F.F. Bruce. Talk with any knowledgeable Catholic Priest about Oral Tradition.