Lazarus and the Rich Man

[Smoky]

I don't have any problems believing "Lazarus and the rich man" was a parable. I just have problems believing Jesus would base a parable on a myth derived from paganism instead of actual truth. I know in many instances the bible speaks figuratively, but would the Lord base a parable on a total untruth? Do you think He would try to make his point telling a parable about reincarnation, and suggest the rich man return as a frog or something?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Jesus taught the people where they were in their understanding... it was common belief among the Jews at that time, the Greek idea of 'hell'... a place of burning torment for the wicked.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Yes, I do believe that the Lord - Jesus - would use a mythical story to make a point. He did it all the time. Parables are not real happenings, they are by nature common stories used to make a point. The Greek view of hell and the afterlife was common in that part of the world at that time. It was commonly believed that you get what you deserve in both this life and the afterlife, and that the realms of physical and spiritual were overlapping and easily bridged. Jesus spoke to what His audience understood. He may have even spoke with the intent to surprise people. The audience would know the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus and they would automatically follow along and fill in the story that they had heard in the past, but when Jesus changed His version of the story they may have been caught off-guard and thus more open to hear the new telling of the tale. This method could've opened their minds to hear what He had to say that was different from what was common. The difference with Jesus' parables were the points made were not common or traditional. He turned these common stories on their head. They are full of "reversals" or complete turn around in the story's meaning.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

The thing is it wouldn't be that he was telling a lie or committing sin of deceit, because it was a common story - people would've easily known it wasn't true. It was meant to be a parable and the audience would've recognized it as a parable.

 

[CaptainToad]

Its difficult to tell what He meant - we werent there, otherwise we could have asked Him.
Personally I think this whole parable wasnt really about the rich man, nor was it about Lazarus. IMHO it was all about the unbelievers.

Well - let us think about that parable again - here we have a rich man - what was his name again? - yes, the rich man, doesnt have a name. AND we have a beggar or something, a poor man, his name is Lazarus - how many people actually had been given a name in those parables? - I cant think of any at the moment (just correct me if there is one more!). So we have Lazarus, not the poor beggar, or hobo, or duder, we have Lazarus and we know that he was poor, less fortunate and stuff.

The funny thing is that Lazarus became sort of rich in heaven, and the rich man sort of poor in hell... and the rich man wanted to have Lazarus sent to warn others
But Jesus said, they wouldnt believe, EVEN if somebody rose from the dead...

The important thing to me,here, is that Jesus CLAIMED, they wouldnt believe, even if somebody rose from the dead. Of course, Jesus knew that, but those people there might have thought, well, if somebody rose from the dead, everyone would believe.

One way or another, Jesus made true on His word! Lazarus finally rose from the dead, or from his sleep, which might be a symbol for the state of being dead, or maybe how God views the state of being dead.

So, IMHO this parable, primarily served as a warning, in general, to do good, to help those Lazarus people out, not to care too much about money as it wont do you any get, or can even get you in trouble some day. And Lazarus finally rising from the dead (I think the news of his comeback spread fast) was sort of the fulfillment of this parable. Heaven and hell? Who cares? - Its Lazarus finally rising from the dead IMHO

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

We area also told that the rich man represented the jewish nation and the beggar, the gentiles.

 

[CaptainToad]

We area also told that the rich man represented the jewish nation and the beggar, the gentiles.

it certainly fits the context

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Its difficult to tell what He meant - we werent there, otherwise we could have asked Him.
Personally I think this whole parable wasnt really about the rich man, nor was it about Lazarus. IMHO it was all about the unbelievers.

Well - let us think about that parable again - here we have a rich man - what was his name again? - yes, the rich man, doesnt have a name. AND we have a beggar or something, a poor man, his name is Lazarus - how many people actually had been given a name in those parables? - I cant think of any at the moment (just correct me if there is one more!). So we have Lazarus, not the poor beggar, or hobo, or duder, we have Lazarus and we know that he was poor, less fortunate and stuff.

The funny thing is that Lazarus became sort of rich in heaven, and the rich man sort of poor in hell... and the rich man wanted to have Lazarus sent to warn others
But Jesus said, they wouldnt believe, EVEN if somebody rose from the dead...

The important thing to me,here, is that Jesus CLAIMED, they wouldnt believe, even if somebody rose from the dead. Of course, Jesus knew that, but those people there might have thought, well, if somebody rose from the dead, everyone would believe.

One way or another, Jesus made true on His word! Lazarus finally rose from the dead, or from his sleep, which might be a symbol for the state of being dead, or maybe how God views the state of being dead.

So, IMHO this parable, primarily served as a warning, in general, to do good, to help those Lazarus people out, not to care too much about money as it wont do you any get, or can even get you in trouble some day. And Lazarus finally rising from the dead (I think the news of his comeback spread fast) was sort of the fulfillment of this parable. Heaven and hell? Who cares? - Its Lazarus finally rising from the dead IMHO

Agreed.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We area also told that the rich man represented the jewish nation and the beggar, the gentiles.

This one commentator came to the same conclusion.....

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading............

LUKE 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' " (NKJV)

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham.
He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28



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[EastCoastRemnant]

Never heard that perspective before LLOJ... thanx!!

It's amazing the layers and depths that the scriptures can be studied and understood.

 

[Svt4Him]

There is no indication it was a parable, and if it was, it would be the only one where it wasn't said so first.

 

[Grafted In]

I believe in my heart it was not a parable. I believe that among those that stood by when He told about the rich man and Lazarus were the brethren of the rich man. I believe they were familiar with Lazarus and were at the grave when Jesus called him forth. I gave my reason for believing in the past and it was not accepted. But I know.

 

[Svt4Him]

I don't think it was a parable either, but the SDA church has a story that it was a common parable at the time. I did some research and couldn't find anything to back up this claim.

Clear Scripture has to be understood without having to go to someone else to talk you into it or out of it. This is a verse that starts by saying there was a man. So there either was, or there wasn't, but if not, simply claiming it is a parable is a thin bush to hide behind.

 

[yesyoushould]

Saying that a parable is a lie is calling Jesus a liar.

That was easy. I hope your healed hearts can rejoice and move on to believing in God again.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by EastCoastRemnant

We area also told that the rich man represented the jewish nation and the beggar, the gentiles.
​

This one commentator came to the same conclusion.....

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell. Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading............

Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham.
He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-14/#post54510139
"for I am having 5 brothers...." Luke 16:28

Never heard that perspective before LLOJ... thanx!!

It's amazing the layers and depths that the scriptures can be studied and understood.

Thank you and your welcome.



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[Smoky]

The unrealistic depictions in the story give evidence that it was only a parable. Would Abraham be in charge of the afterlife, able to receive requests from people who have passed on? Would people in torment be able to communicate with people in Paradise? Would the rich man tormented in flames be requesting a drop of water on his tongue?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't think it was a parable either, but the SDA church has a story that it was a common parable at the time. I did some research and couldn't find anything to back up this claim.

Clear Scripture has to be understood without having to go to someone else to talk you into it or out of it. This is a verse that starts by saying there was a man. So there either was, or there wasn't, but if not, simply claiming it is a parable is a thin bush to hide behind.

Saying that a parable is a lie is calling Jesus a liar.

That was easy. I hope your healed hearts can rejoice and move on to believing in God again.

Who here has implied that this parable is a lie?



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[JojotheBeloved]

The unrealistic depictions in the story give evidence that it was only a parable. Would Abraham be in charge of the afterlife, able to receive requests from people who have passed on? Would people in torment be able to communicate with people in Paradise? Would the rich man tormented in flames be requesting a drop of water on his tongue?

Not only that, but also the format of the story lends to the assumption that it is a parable. Its beginning and its ongoing narrative seem to suggest fiction in a similar way that our "Once upon a time..." styled narratives do.