1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

  2. Faith Options in Your User Profile
    Please click on the following regarding this important notice in Announcements:

    Faith Options in Your User Profile.

Keturah's Children

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Handmaid for Jesus, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    I have not done an indepth study but it occurred to me today that there is no mention (that I see) of what happens to Keturah's children by Abraham.I believe, Looking at the Middle Eastern involvement in the end time scenario, and knowing a little bit about who all is involved, this is slippery for me Anybody want to help me sort this through?

    Gen.25:1 Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. 3 Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Ashurites, the Letu[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es and the Leummites. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanok, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah.

    I know Medianis Arabia, but I don't know to much about the others. Where did they settle. I doubt that they don't exist today.
     
  2. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    The middle east is filled with them, and also India.
    Ishbak settled in what is named after him: Usbekistan

    Midianites intermarried with Ismael's line. Moses took a Midianite wife [second wife: first was an Ethiopian].

    Here is a link to a book page that will help.
    Cyclopaedia of Biblical, theological ... - Google Books
     
  3. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    Thanks for the link Yeshuasavedme, I will look it up tomorrow, I am ready for bed now. Thanks too for the information I asked for. I thought Moses first wife was Jethro's daughter. Was he married before he married her? Jethro was a Midianite.
     
  4. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Moses married an Ethiopian woman before He married Zipporah, who was descended from Midian [Abraham and Keturah].
    Reuel and Jethro are one and the same man, a Midianite.
    Cush and Ethiopia are one and the same nation, descendants of Cush.

    Num 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

    Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.
    Exd 2:18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How [is it that] ye are come so soon to day?
    Exd 2:21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.

    The Ethiopian woman was wife of the King of Cush, who had died. Moses was installed as king of Cush by the will of the people for his wisdom in delivering them in war, counseling the king how to win, and he got the late king's wife as a politically expedient thing to do.
    He ruled the nation of Cush for forty years, which rule began 9 years after fleeing Egypt. After that, the wife asked that the late king's son -who was quite grown up- be installed as king. The people agreed. Moses left the nation in peace and with many gifts -and lots of learning on how to be a king, and then went to Midian at age 67.
    He did not immediately get Zipporah for a wife, but was put in a dungeon by her father for 10 years, because Reuel had formerly been a counselor to Pharaoh in Egypt, and feared harboring Moses, the Egyptian prince, so he imprisoned him.

    No one came for Moses, and Zipporah fed him in secret all those ten years, and asked that he be released after that. Jethro ended up releasing him, and Moses performed a miracle [which was the basis of the King Arthur story, methinks], and got the daughter for a wife. Three years later, aged 80, with two young children under 3, he took off for Egypt with the wife, and children. Jethro had talked him out of circumcising the oldest, and he was met by the angel who would slay him for not having been obedient to YHWH. Zipporah circumcised the oldest [the youngest was circumcised], saving his life, and then Moses went on his way to meet Aaron.
    Aaron chewed him out for bringing the wife and children, so Moses sent them back to Jethro, who later brought them to Moses again after Israel was delivered from Egypt, two years later.

    The history of Moses correlates with his history in Genesis, which is redacted much, but the Ethiopian wife was left in Cush -he never went in to her, either:), considering the marriage only politically expedient, but Miriam and Aaron spoke against him for it, and got punished by God.
    Moses history is in the real book of Jasher.
    Jasher Chapter 72 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  5. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    Thanks again.I have read a little of Jasher. It seems to fill in the blanks of history as we know it from the Bible.
     
  6. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    Hey Yeshuasavedme, I have been reading the cyclopedia link you gave me. It gives a Sheba and Dedan who are the sons of Raamah son of Cush. These are not Keturah's children. Keturah did have sons named Sheba and Dedan though as posted in the scripture above. So these cannot be the same peoples as Cush is from the Hamite line and Abraham is a descendant from Shem.
     
  7. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    I know there are both, but follow more search links and see that Sheba and Dedan mentioned in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula are from Abraham and Keturah. We have the same names today for many cities in many places, too.
    Cush did not go to the Peninsula. No sons of Ham went there and built cities [at least that I am aware of]. Sheba is Yemen, and the Yemenites are from Abraham and Keturah. -http://www.yemenweb.com/Travel.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  8. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    OK I have been at this site
    Descendants of Abraham Part IV: Sons of Keturah (No. 212D)

    Now here they talk about Saudi Arabia being the home of Keturah's sons. I knew that Midian settled there but I was not so sure about the others.

    here is an excerp.

     
  9. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    No, they went and built Assyria (Nineveh, Babylon, etc)
    Genesis 10:8
    Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth.
    Micah 5:6
    who will rule the land of Assyria with the sword, the land of Nimrod with drawn sword. He will deliver us from the Assyrians when they invade our land and march across our borders.
     
  10. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Those aren't on the Saudi Peninsula, which is where Yemen/Sheba and Dedan are, which is what I said -see:
    Ninevah was built by Assur, Shem's descendant.
    Gen 10:11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,Gen 10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus I AM WHAT I AM

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    Gender:
    Male
    Faith:
    Christian-Seeker
    I have never read it myself. :blush: :sorry:

    I did use a concordance to find out more about it tho :wave:

    Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
    (jasher)
    occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the KJV
    Page 1 / 1 inexact matches (Jos 10:13 - 2Sa 1:18)

    KJV) Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher/03477 yashar?
    So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. {Jasher: or, the upright?}

    03477 yashar
    {yaw-shawr'} from 03474; TWOT - 930a; adj
    AV - right 53, upright 42, righteous 9, straight 3, convenient 2, Jasher 2, equity 1, just 1, meet 1, meetest 1, upright ones 1,
    uprightly 1, uprightness 1, well 1; 119 1) straight, upright, correct, right 1a) straight, level 1b) right, pleasing, correct 1c) straightforward, just, upright, fitting, proper 1d) uprightness, righteous, upright 1e) that which is upright (subst)

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

    Strong's Number H3474 matches the Hebrew יָשַׁר (yashar), which occurs 29 times in 26 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV

    3474
    yashar yaw-shar' a primitive root; to be straight or even; figuratively, to be (causatively, to make) right, pleasant, prosperous:--direct, fit, seem good (meet), + please (will), be (esteem, go) right (on), bring (look, make, take the) straight (way), be upright(-ly).

    Last time used in OT/OC:

    KJV) Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright/03474 yashar in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
     
  12. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    Hi LLOJ come join . I want to know more about the descendants of Keturah and piece together who they are in the end time. Yesuasavedme and I have so far discovered that some of Keturah's sons settled in what we call Saudi Arabia. We could use some extra eyes on the search. Glad to have you on board.
     
  13. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    And Isbek is Uzbekistan [with mixed invaders added in] -vowels don't matter in the spellings of the names, as they are not in the original spellings.
    Also, India has tribes descended from Abraham and Keturah, but strangely, they claim Sarah, not Keturah, in their mixed up theology on their origins.
    In the Book of Jubilees, which does not correlate with the Tenach, NT, the real Jasher, and Enoch, but which certainly was written to Judaize the world and whose author [s?] did have access to some written histories but not to all [certainly not to Jasher], there is the story of the dividing up of the earth by lot of the descendants of Noah, and Shem got the middle east all the way up to a river called "Tina" [I do not yet know that river by a modern name, but it is certainly above Uzbekistan:)], and all the way over east, through India, and the entire Peninsula of what is now Saudi Arabia, and to the river/Brook Sihor [the Nile] of Egypt.
    That later, Abraham and Keturah's offspring did end up in India, as some tribes there have long claimed, then that correlates those two bits of information.
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus I AM WHAT I AM

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    2,013
    Gender:
    Male
    Faith:
    Christian-Seeker
    Not sure I will be very helpful on that, as I believe Revelation is showing the destruction of OC Jerusalem as described in Daniel 12 and the Olivet Discourse.

    However, the word "arabia" does occur a few times in the Bible. Is that the same as the one mentioned by my bro Paul in Galatian 4:25 :confused:

    Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
    (arabia)
    occurs 8 times in 7 verses in the KJV
    Page 1 / 1 inexact matches (1Ki 10:15 - Gal 4:25)

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
    Strong's Number G688 matches the Greek Ἀραβία (Arabia), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

    Galatian 4:24 which things is an allegory.
    For these are the two Covenants, one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who-any is Hagar.
    25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving with the offpsrings of Her.
     
  15. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    I forgot a former study I did on the "gold of Ophir" and where Ophir was. Without doing it over again, it was/is in India, in or by [I gotta do that search again] the "land of Havilah", which was divided off and given to the Islamics as Pakistan, decades ago. I even found it on Google earth. Shem's descendants got that area by lot, in the ancient writing, and Abraham and Keturah had some sons who did end up in what is now India, also, with their cousins, as Shem's descendants through Abraham.

    Okay, I found it and it came from something Josephus wrote, which I did not go find again, but it is Havelian, Pakistan, on the upper Indus River, which was formerly India.
    This part is just showing the link to Shem's descendants habitations, and Abraham and Keturah's were in that line, also.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  16. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant

    Well, now I see how/why they may have claimed Sarah as an ancestor. Do you have a link to that Gold of Ophir study? I would like to tie it into this. I was looking at Ezekiel 38 and I did not see Keturah's children coming against Israel.

    Ezek. 38:1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
    3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
    4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
    5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
    6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.



    Me here, I may have to pick this apart. But Gog is a Spirit being I think.I have not found him among the nations listed. What say you all. I said that because it says he is the Chief Prince of Meshech and Tubal. These are Japheth's descendants. We have always thought that Magog and Meshech and Tubal were the peoples up around Russia.


    more later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  17. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    In the Dead Sea Scrolls, Gog is all the "Chittim", and yes, it does seem that Gog is the name of the prince over Magog and associates....but Gog is missing being explained totally, except in the Dead Sea Scrolls connecting it to the last great battle of the nations of the Chittim against Israel.
    Read the DSS War Scrolls for more info.
     
  18. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    I will read these war scrolls if I can find them on the internet.
     
  19. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    11,042
    Likes Received:
    27
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
  20. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy

    Messages:
    4,238
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Protestant
    I did find the war scrolls Yeshuasavedme, but I have just one question for you. You said Gog is all of the Chittim. Are they the same as the Kittim?
     
Loading...