Justifying Abortion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,251
✟48,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
We just heard a good deal of interesting rhetoric in the third presidential debate last night. Clinton's main line of argument was that she did not believe that the government should make the difficult decision of terminating a pregnancy, but that this decision should be in the hands of women and their families.

Part of this line of argument is that there can be some pretty disturbing and perplexing medical cases that pregnant women face:

There are situations wherein the child/fetus has some disease that makes it so that the child will be born, suffer agony for a few hours or days, and then die. Perhaps women and families should have the option to terminate a pregnancy to spare the child and family from this pain.

Furthermore there are cases wherein the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother - sometimes to a certainty. If the mother carries the child to term she will likely die. Perhaps women and families should have the freedom to terminate such a pregnancy in order to save the life of the mother.

Admittedly, these situations are tragic and morally perplexing. But they are extreme and incredibly rare. They don't even represent 1% of abortions performed. Pro-Choice folks use these extreme situations in order to justify the vast majority of abortions which have nothing to do with saving the life of the mother or sparing a terminally ill fetus from agonizing pain.

For this reason I believe that these situations ought not be considered when debating the legality or moral permissibility of abortion. These cases are so extreme and so rare that they ought to be dealt with separately. Conclusions we make in these cases should have no bearing on conclusions made about the vast majority of abortions. And so these cases should not be used to defend abortion wholesale.
 

smithed64

To Die is gain, To Live is Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 2, 2013
808
279
Chattanooga, Tennessee
✟41,497.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
We just heard a good deal of interesting rhetoric in the third presidential debate last night. Clinton's main line of argument was that she did not believe that the government should make the difficult decision of terminating a pregnancy, but that this decision should be in the hands of women and their families.

Part of this line of argument is that there can be some pretty disturbing and perplexing medical cases that pregnant women face:

There are situations wherein the child/fetus has some disease that makes it so that the child will be born, suffer agony for a few hours or days, and then die. Perhaps women and families should have the option to terminate a pregnancy to spare the child and family from this pain.

Furthermore there are cases wherein the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother - sometimes to a certainty. If the mother carries the child to term she will likely die. Perhaps women and families should have the freedom to terminate such a pregnancy in order to save the life of the mother.

Admittedly, these situations are tragic and morally perplexing. But they are extreme and incredibly rare. They don't even represent 1% of abortions performed. Pro-Choice folks use these extreme situations in order to justify the vast majority of abortions which have nothing to do with saving the life of the mother or sparing a terminally ill fetus from agonizing pain.

For this reason I believe that these situations ought not be considered when debating the legality or moral permissibility of abortion. These cases are so extreme and so rare that they ought to be dealt with separately. Conclusions we make in these cases should have no bearing on conclusions made about the vast majority of abortions. And so these cases should not be used to defend abortion wholesale.

I'm totally pro-life. It's a child at conception type of dude. I do agree that there are that very small amount 1%, but as in a the case of the child (fetus is still a child, just not fully developed, it's human fetus), yes, there are those very rare instances where a child may be sick in the womb. Be born and then die in a few hours to a day away....it's been proven that having the child and letting the family be with that child, even holding that child using the Kangaroo method (where a sick infant is held to a mother or fathers chest, and the vitals of the child get better). That child may still live. That's up to God, not us. He's the bringer of life and the taker. In any case that child and the family will have the strength to make it through no matter the ending. Oh, yeah, it will be hard if the child dies...it's hard for any child to die. But letting it live from the womb, at least gives the child the chance to survive. There is no excuse for any type of abortion.
As far as I know, because I know, I don't know everything. There is only one extremely deathly instance where child will die and possibly could take the mother. Ectopic Pregnancy or (tubular pregnancy). The chances for an child to survive this is about 1%. And it can cause hemorrhaging with the mother and take her. Doctors will do everything in their power to save both the child and mother. Remember "Do no Harm". If the child dies, which is more than likely to happen, then they did their best and God took that child home. And if caught in time, the mother can get pregnant again and have a normal birthing.

There is a question I always ask, when it comes to this hot topic.

"What is it?"

I also ask people to finish this sentence.

"It's okay to kill a child when......."
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,238
36,554
Los Angeles Area
✟829,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
For this reason I believe that these situations ought not be considered when debating the legality or moral permissibility of abortion. These cases are so extreme and so rare that they ought to be dealt with separately. Conclusions we make in these cases should have no bearing on conclusions made about the vast majority of abortions. And so these cases should not be used to defend abortion wholesale.

For the most part, they are considered separately. This came up in the discussion of third trimester 'partial birth' abortions. They are rare, and pretty much only for these unusual circumstances. But that's what the question was about, and it was valid to bring up in that context.

The arguments in Roe v Wade and most of the pro-choice movement are separate, and generally relate to the first two trimesters.
 
Upvote 0

quatona

"God"? What do you mean??
May 15, 2005
37,512
4,301
✟175,292.00
Faith
Seeker
I'm totally pro-life. It's a child at conception type of dude. I do agree that there are that very small amount 1%, but as in a the case of the child (fetus is still a child, just not fully developed, it's human fetus), yes, there are those very rare instances where a child may be sick in the womb. Be born and then die in a few hours to a day away....it's been proven that having the child and letting the family be with that child, even holding that child using the Kangaroo method (where a sick infant is held to a mother or fathers chest, and the vitals of the child get better). That child may still live. That's up to God, not us. He's the bringer of life and the taker. In any case that child and the family will have the strength to make it through no matter the ending. Oh, yeah, it will be hard if the child dies...it's hard for any child to die. But letting it live from the womb, at least gives the child the chance to survive. There is no excuse for any type of abortion.
As far as I know, because I know, I don't know everything. There is only one extremely deathly instance where child will die and possibly could take the mother. Ectopic Pregnancy or (tubular pregnancy). The chances for an child to survive this is about 1%. And it can cause hemorrhaging with the mother and take her. Doctors will do everything in their power to save both the child and mother. Remember "Do no Harm". If the child dies, which is more than likely to happen, then they did their best and God took that child home. And if caught in time, the mother can get pregnant again and have a normal birthing.

There is a question I always ask, when it comes to this hot topic.

"What is it?"

I also ask people to finish this sentence.

"It's okay to kill a child when......."
"...God does it."?
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,238
36,554
Los Angeles Area
✟829,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
America will be destroyed with abortion firmly in place and will be but one of the reasons for our destruction among many others.

I rather doubt that. Abortion was perfectly legal at the time of the founders, and America survived just fine then.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

Tull

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2016
2,191
917
63
Virginia
✟29,416.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I rather doubt that. Abortion was perfectly legal at the time of the founders, and America survived just fine then.

The typical arrogant American response...it can't happen here,which makes it all the more likely,abortions in the 1700s....yeah I'm sure they all went well lol
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ajax 777
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,238
36,554
Los Angeles Area
✟829,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
It's not that it can't happen here, but that it didn't happen here.

You seem to be suggesting that legal abortion leads to destruction.
It hasn't historically.
And it hasn't in the past 40 years.
So your prediction seems pretty hollow.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tull

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2016
2,191
917
63
Virginia
✟29,416.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It's not that it can't happen here, but that it didn't happen here.

You seem to be suggesting that legal abortion leads to destruction.
It hasn't historically.
And it hasn't in the past 40 years.
So your prediction seems pretty hollow.

I said it was one of many reasons,America has been around for about 240 years the average for an empire is about 200 so we are over due,we have an entirely different frame of reference so me trying to explain to you why I think destruction is our lot would be as pointless as you trying to explain me why you think it isn't so lets wait and see.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,251
✟48,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
How would abortion cause the destruction of a society?

If a nation persists in rebellion against Yahweh and especially if a nation oppresses and kills the most vulnerable and innocent then Yahweh will destroy that nation.
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟41,497.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
If a nation persists in rebellion against Yahweh and especially if a nation oppresses and kills the most vulnerable and innocent then Yahweh will destroy that nation.
Lol

I'm pretty sure this threat is without precedent, so I can sleep at night.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,251
✟48,157.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Reminder for some of the pro-lifers in this thread: Many of us objecting to your claims are atheists, so any appeal to Yahweh smiting a nation is, surprisingly, irrelevant. Argue on common ground.

It's not an argument. It's a prophetic word and a warning.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.