Jesus says no one can pluck/snatch us out of His & The Father's hand. Does that include yourself?

[SeventyOne]

I said God created every man. You disagreed; you said man created man. Who can create life but God? Can man create life?

I never said man was born in a fallen state; that's not my belief. That a Reformed belief. The Reformed have God creating man in a fallen state. Again, nice try.

I'm going to need you to show me where I claimed man created man.

I say man is born in a fallen state due to passages like Romans 5:18-19, which says, "through one man's trespass, judgment came to all men, for by one man's disobedience all were made sinners", and again in Eph. 2:3 telling us we “were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind”.

If that's a Reformed belief, then the Reformed have it right.

 

[EmSw]

I'm going to need you to show me where I claimed man created man.

I say man is born in a fallen state due to passages like Romans 5:18-19, which says, "through one man's trespass, judgment came to all men, for by one man's disobedience all were made sinners", and again in Eph. 2:3 telling us we “were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind”.

If that's a Reformed belief, then the Reformed have it right.

You sure like sour grapes. You are using a proverb which God says is NOT to be used again.

James 1
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Sin is not born with Adam, in the womb, nor at birth. Sin is birthed when a man is tempted, drawn away by his own desires, and enticed. Why do so many miss this?

 

[SeventyOne]

You sure like sour grapes. You are using a proverb which God says is NOT to be used again.

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about. You said I claimed man created man, and I want you to show me where I said that. If you can't find it, then admit you quoted me incorrectly. No big deal.

James 1

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Sin is not born with Adam, in the womb, nor at birth. Sin is birthed when a man is tempted, drawn away by his own desires, and enticed. Why do so many miss this?

No one missed anything. James is talking about an act of sin, not the sin nature. Two different topics and origins.

 

[EmSw]

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about. You said I claimed man created man, and I want you to show me where I said that. If you can't find it, then admit you quoted me incorrectly. No big deal.

No one missed anything. James is talking about an act of sin, not the sin nature. Two different topics and origins.

Who creates man if God doesn't?

Where did Paul speak of the sin nature in Romans?

 

[SeventyOne]

Who creates man if God doesn't?

Where did Paul speak of the sin nature in Romans?

Ummm, ok. I no longer see the point in going any further with you. I'm done.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Ummm, ok. I no longer see the point in going any further with you. I'm done.

The typical calvinist response to anyone who challenges them to question their theology.

 

[SeventyOne]

The typical calvinist response to anyone who challenges them to question their theology.

Actually, you might want to read our exchange a bit. He keeps asking the same questions over and over, and ignoring the responses. I'm tired of going around in circles with him, but I do appreciate the unfounded and presumptive name calling.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Actually, you might want to read our exchange a bit. He keeps asking the same questions over and over, and ignoring the responses. I'm tired of going around in circles with him, but I do appreciate the unfounded and presumptive name calling.

Very well...carry on.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about. You said I claimed man created man, and I want you to show me where I said that. If you can't find it, then admit you quoted me incorrectly. No big deal.




No one missed anything. James is talking about an act of sin, not the sin nature. Two different topics and origins.

Some here reject Romans 5 brother.

Look up Pelagian...they have a different take on original sin and sin nature

 

[EmSw]

If this is your understanding, then how do you (or anyone for that matter) know if they are truly saved? Given your position, could it be that you or I will be another of these who eventually walk away? What if you are not one of the elect, but rather one chosen by God, from before the world began, to be nothing more than a temporary follower? I find no real comfort in your position. You seem to be saying that no one can really know if they are saved (of the elect) until they have proven faithful until the end. It seems the best your position can offer is a "maybe I am saved". Do you agree?

According to sdowney, a brother in the church does not mean he is saved.
Also, one who is dearly beloved does not mean they are saved.
Now, he says a disciple doesn't mean he is saved.
Judas was called an apostle, so I'm sure he thinks an apostle doesn't mean one is saved.

 

[DingDing]

It is not 'my position' this is Christ's words you have issue with.
...

Nope, it is your position I have issue with.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Seems like Jesus is telling us we are eternally secure.

Nothing and no one can snatch us from The Father or The Son.
Do some think their protected freewill gives them a right to leave?
What force, power, or situation could snatch us from Father & Son?


John 10:28-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

When Jesus says it is absolute it is so.
People backslide. They fall from the path. The story of the prodigal son tells us of that. A young man was hungry to live in the world, squandered his fathers blessings, and went to the lowest place he could go. Even eating with swine in order to survive on a meal. But then he came back to his fathers house and his father was overjoyed and welcomed him with open arms. And celebrated the return of his wandering boy.

A beautiful parable that tells us we may stray but we will always be welcomed home. Because that is what fathers do.
We can jump from Jesus' hand by our own choice. But when we look to come back he still has that place for us waiting.

Eternal. That's not conditional. That's not saying temporary. Jesus didn't die to give us momentary life. He died to assure our eternal salvation and eternal life. God sent his son to us to deliver the message that Gods grace would always welcome us home.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

When Jesus says it is absolute it is so.
People backslide. They fall from the path. The story of the prodigal son tells us of that. A young man was hungry to live in the world, squandered his fathers blessings, and went to the lowest place he could go. Even eating with swine in order to survive on a meal. But then he came back to his fathers house and his father was overjoyed and welcomed him with open arms. And celebrated the return of his wandering boy.

A beautiful parable that tells us we may stray but we will always be welcomed home. Because that is what fathers do.
We can jump from Jesus' hand by our own choice. But when we look to come back he still has that place for us waiting.

Eternal. That's not conditional. That's not saying temporary. Jesus didn't die to give us momentary life. He died to assure our eternal salvation and eternal life. God sent his son to us to deliver the message that Gods grace would always welcome us home.

That is true and I agree, however, how can the Father welcome His son with open arms if the son never chose to come back?

 

[SeventyOne]

That is true and I agree, however, how can the Father welcome His son with open arms if the son never chose to come back?

You're getting out of the biblical area and into the never ending sea of speculation. It would be just as productive to ask, "What if the son is on the way back, but he's abducted by Klingons and forced to labor in their penal colony of Rura Penthe for the rest of his life?"

The biblical model is the son returns to the father, and even if it wasn't, at no point does a son cease to be a son, no matter what the distance might be.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is true and I agree, however, how can the Father welcome His son with open arms if the son never chose to come back?

Seems you're making more of the parable than is warranted. Whether the son comes back or not, he's still the son. That relationship is permanent.

What isn't permanent is fellowship. Those who physically die out of fellowship will definitely lose out on eternal rewards. But not salvation.

 

[nobdysfool]

According to sdowney, a brother in the church does not mean he is saved.
Also, one who is dearly beloved does not mean they are saved.
Now, he says a disciple doesn't mean he is saved.
Judas was called an apostle, so I'm sure he thinks an apostle doesn't mean one is saved.

Presumption is a sin. There has been a deliberate ignoring of what others have said, all to drive an agenda. Hence all the circular questions, and repetition of questions that have been answered many times, although not to your liking. Admit it you don't like Calvinism.

 

[nobdysfool]

I said God created every man. You disagreed; you said man created man. Who can create life but God? Can man create life?

I never said man was born in a fallen state; that's not my belief. That a Reformed belief. The Reformed have God creating man in a fallen state. Again, nice try.

No the Reformed do NOT have God creating man in a fallen state. God did not directly create any man except for Adam. Men are created by procreation, a process which God instituted, but men reproduce after their own kind, i.e. fallen.

If God created you directly, show us the mud pit you came from.

 

[EmSw]

Presumption is a sin. There has been a deliberate ignoring of what others have said, all to drive an agenda. Hence all the circular questions, and repetition of questions that have been answered many times, although not to your liking. Admit it you don't like Calvinism.

Good to see you back NF. I'm not ignoring what sdowney said. I wish you would see for yourself before presuming my postition. Yes, I'll admit it, Calvinism is not to my liking, nor my choice of belief.

 

[EmSw]

No the Reformed do NOT have God creating man in a fallen state. God did not directly create any man except for Adam. Men are created by procreation, a process which God instituted, but men reproduce after their own kind, i.e. fallen.

If God created you directly, show us the mud pit you came from.

Whether directly or indirectly, God is the only CREATOR! Man can create nothing. Life is from God only. Reproducing is not creating. Creation indicate something new; creation has to do with birth. Look up the Hebrew word bara'; I'm not making this up. Thank you.