Jesus just a cultural product?

Wryetui

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I was talking with a friend the last night, and he told me that his vision of religion and specially our religion is that it was made only to "educate" society with a system of values and to keep them quiet in this world, to save us from the fear of death and from the fear of the day of tomorrow, knowing that God with help us like "Religion is the opium of the people". Is God just something invented long time ago, between all the religions, just to keep us quiet and educated so we know we have a reward on the life that will come? How can I contrarrest him? May the things he said be sadly true?
 

buzuxi02

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I was talking with a friend the last night, and he told me that his vision of religion and specially our religion is that it was made only to "educate" society with a system of values and to keep them quiet in this world, to save us from the fear of death and from the fear of the day of tomorrow, knowing that God with help us like "Religion is the opium of the people". Is God just something invented long time ago, between all the religions, just to keep us quiet and educated so we know we have a reward on the life that will come? How can I contrarrest him? May the things he said be sadly true?

Well atleast he is not parroting that other myth of religion creating all the wars. I suggest your friend read the history of the first 300 years of christianity. They hardly kept quiet thats why they were thrown to the lions. Ever hear of the persecution of Diocletian?

Invented between all the religions? LOLOL like in a secret roundtable discussion? Wow these ecumenists are everywhere.

The people making secret agreements between each other to control the masses is the G20, the media, freemasons, bilderberg group, UN, the trilateral commision. Whom am I missing? Should I throw in the banksters? By the way did you know the british literally used opium to control the masses in China? Medicating has made a comeback from what i hear, great way to control people and make them feel all fuzzy inside.
 
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Ignatius21

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He calls me pathethic for thinking that we may have something after death. He thinks his body will become food for the worms and there is nothing after death, exactly nothing. I'm sorry if I don't think i'm the pathethic here lol

Your friend's remark about "worm food" brings back memories for me. I had a good friend from college who used that very phrase. He had exactly the same line about the purpose of religion: a tool used to calm the masses and keep them obedient, by either scaring them with hell, or calming them with promises of heaven. And it's especially effective, according to him, at keeping poor people complacent by assuring them that treasure in the life to come, is better than treasure in the life they have now.

I had many discussions with him, and I certainly never "broke through" that I was aware of. I haven't talked to him in probably five years.

What I did notice, though--and I've noticed it with at least 3 other people I've known well--is that although they present these feelings with confidence and dressed in the language of reason and logic, beneath all their supposed logic usually lies a lot of pain. In at least two cases, each guy was raised in a home that experienced some great strain due to (or involving) religion, or religious hypocrisy. Every Sunday they heard sermons about loving each other, and the rest of the week, the family undermined each other in various ways. They grew up seeing that religion was used as a convenient way to cover up the real problems that people had, and when they were old enough to make their own decisions, they walked out.

Over time they came to embrace the whole "worm food" ideal (and in a bizarre way, it is an ideal for them) as almost a badge of honor: "I'm mature, smart, and realistic enough to embrace my own nothingness, my own meaninglessness, and my own mortality--unlike religious people who just aren't grown up enough to deal with things the way they are."

So I will guess that your friend probably has some bad experience with faith, somewhere in his past. People don't proudly talk about how meaningless they are, unless there's something more going on at the core.

How to reach him? I don't know, but the answer probably doesn't lie with persuading him to accept a different set of facts. His mind is closed. It will be like shooting pellets at an armored car. Rather, continue being his friend, show him Christian love and friendship of the kind he probably hasnt' seen before. See if you can get him away from his fortress of intellect, and get to the heart. I'll bet--if he lets his guard down--you'll learn that the real reasons for his belief are very personal, emotional, and existential. That he's built this armored shell to protect a wound that still hurts. And pray for him.

It's enough to know that the "pathetic" belief is the one that has no hope--his. If he insults you, bear it patiently. If nothing else, maybe one day he'll tell someone else, "All those religious people are pathetic hypocrites! Except this one guy Wryetui. He's still pathetic but at least he puts his money where his mouth is." :)
 
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jckstraw72

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it sounds like he denies God in order to comfort himself - now he can live as he pleases and not have to worry about Judgment! clearly he has taken the weak position - a Christian is ready to take responsibioity for his actions and be judged for them. an atheist seeks an eased conscience.
 
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gzt

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The only real power the government has over you is that it can kill you. That's the real question we ask when we ask about how best to govern: "Who should we kill to have the best society?" No, abdicating the question is not a solution, that kills a different set of people, and probably more of them. But the point here is this: Jesus has given us victory over death, He has destroyed death. It is true that the ruling classes want a submissive people and a compliant lower class that knows its place. But our place, according to Christianity, is that we are children of God who have victory over death: this is radical and dangerous to the state because this means it has no real power over us.

I mean, we have seen in the last century, especially from people who use lines like the above, a strong desire to suppress religion, even persecute of kill. If all religion does is keep people docile, why would the Communists in so many different nations have to fight so hard to suppress it? Why would the Nazis work so hard to subvert and suborn the various churches in their nation?
 
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SeventhValley

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I was talking with a friend the last night, and he told me that his vision of religion and specially our religion is that it was made only to "educate" society with a system of values and to keep them quiet in this world, to save us from the fear of death and from the fear of the day of tomorrow, knowing that God with help us like "Religion is the opium of the people". Is God just something invented long time ago, between all the religions, just to keep us quiet and educated so we know we have a reward on the life that will come? How can I contrarrest him? May the things he said be sadly true?


So he is a naturalist of sorts. Tell him that if religion evolved it is still around because it must benefits the human race. It creates community and community is the essence of the Trinity and being human.

Truth fosters good will,tolerance and peace. Falsehood fosters destruction,anger, and death.

War,murder,and genocide is the way of animals which is what atheistic communism devolves into.

Peace,love,tolerance is the way of the human which is what Christ,Christians and even virtuous pagans taught.

My thoughts anyways.
 
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ArmyMatt

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usually those folks only look at Christianity as a set of rules or some mystical philosophy. while it certainly has those aspects, Christianity is a relationship with a real Person. so they approach the faith as knowing about Christ, which is not the same as knowing Him.
 
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Wryetui

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The problem is that he cannot see our faith like it is. He sees it in a mathematic way, in a philosophic way, in a scientifical way, in all the ways but in a religious way. And wen I say things to him or another atheist, he comes with their supreme argument: "If God exists, show me! I cannot see Him!
 
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gzt

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Are you worried because his doubts are getting to you, or is it just that you are worried for him? I would just note that the way he is looking at things is not "scientific", since science says nothing about these propositions (by design). This kind of shallow positivism is impoverished even from an atheistic perspective. If it makes you feel better, his views are just a cultural product as well.
 
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Lukaris

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I think it just comes down to us realizing we have a conscience that guides us in doing what is right or wrong. Whatever value system we assign this to is our religion as long as our impulse is humane. Without a sense of accountability for our actions, I think we diminish, damage, or destroy the basis for mutual respect.

Personally I do not see how my conscience could function in living life without the Gospel of Jesus Christ (wretched as I am). I also believe, thanks be to God, that the Lord works in the conscience of many non Christians (whether they know it or not) to live as He intended us to. I also believe, I or anyone, Christian or non, can lapse into evil and face the judgment.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The problem is that he cannot see our faith like it is. He sees it in a mathematic way, in a philosophic way, in a scientifical way, in all the ways but in a religious way. And wen I say things to him or another atheist, he comes with their supreme argument: "If God exists, show me! I cannot see Him!

this is why we need not just eyes and ears, but eyes to see and ears to hear. if your friend is open to God, God will let him know in His time.
 
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