Jesus Christ died for the elect

[RisingSpirit]

He died for everyone who choose to accept it for themselves.

He died for everyone who discovered the Gift of Faith, themselves.

When I was a baby. I discovered I had two arms while I didn't know where they came from at the time.

It's powerful assurance that God chooses us ...and we don't choose God.

When the proposition is us 'accepting Jesus' our redemption is on really shaky ground !

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:

No, He told us to preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE. That is far different that just to preach. And you have failed to explain why TO everyone if the gospel isn't FOR everyone.

What verse teaches that?

So, please explain WHY we are to preach TO every creature if the gospel isn't FOR every creature. You know, those so-called "non-elect" types.

And you said this:

Ephesians 3

No, Eph 3 isn't an answer to the question. You might as well as said "Genesis to Revelation" instead.

If you think Eph 3 contains the answer, please reference the specific verses.

God's wisdom made known by the church to the principalities and powers in heavenly places, that includes fallen angelic rulers and demons. Demons do possess and afflict, oppress people

Still not an answer to my question of WHY preach TO every creature if the gospel isn't FOR every creature.

I'm beginning to think you don't actually have an answer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The reformed do agree the Elects are effected by the Gospel preaching even though they were already saved.

I've heard on other forums from Calvinists who claim that the "elect" are already saved. What verse teaches that? I can show you a miriad of verses that teach that one is saved through faith. So, in fact, NO ONE is saved "already" before they hear and believe the gospel.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

There are many more, but these should give you pause.

Most people, here, don't know Traditional Calvinism and most know the other type of fringe Calvinism thats wrong in itself, that gets everyone in trouble here. I see a lot of blends in what you're saying.

Can you specify?

 

[FreeGrace2]

He died for everyone who discovered the Gift of Faith, themselves.

The Bible clearly states that Jesus tased death for all. Not "some", not the "elect", not "just believers". But all. And most of the 45 translations on BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. render "pas" this way:

EVERYONE - 25
Common English Bible
Contemporary English Version
Easy-To-Read Version
ESV
ESV Anglicized
Expanded Bible
God’s Word
Good News Translation
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Lexham English Bible
Mounce Reverse Interlinear NT
Names of God Bible
NASB
New Century Version
NET
NIRV
NIV
NKJV
NLT
NRSV
NRSV anglicized
NRSV anglicized Catholic
NRSV Catholic
The Voice
World English Bible

EVERY ONE - 3
RSV
RSV Catholic
Young’s Literal Translation

EVERY MAN - 6
21st Century KJV
ASV
JB Phillips NT
Jubilee Bible 2000
KJV
Authorized KJV

EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON - 1
Amplified Bible

ALL HUMANITY - 1
Complete Jewish Bible

EVERY THING - 2
Darby Translation
Douay-Rheims1899 American Ed

ALL MEN - 2
1599 Geneva
Wycliffe

ON BEHALF OF ALL - 2
Knox Bible
Orthodox Jewish Bible

EVERY PERSON’S PLACE - 1
The Message

ALL OF US - 1
New Life Version

EVERY PERSON - 1
Worldwide English NT

When I was a baby. I discovered I had two arms while I didn't know where they came from at the time.

Your early childhood is not related to the issue of when one is saved. Further, no one "discovers" that they are "saved already". There isn't any verse that teaches that.

It's powerful assurance that God chooses us ...and we don't choose God.

Do you know HOW He chooses to save?

2 Thess 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

I highlighted the pertinent portions.

Some misunderstand this verse to say that God chooses who will believe, which is foundational for the Calvinistic doctrine of election. But it doesn't say or mean that. It means that God chooses to save those who believe.

Here's another verse that basically says the same thing:
1 Cor 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

When the proposition is us 'accepting Jesus' our redemption is on really shaky ground !

When one understands the "proposition" of "accepting Jesus" means to accept His promise of eternal life through faith in Him, there is no shaky ground.

 

[sdowney717]

I said this:

And you said this:

No, Eph 3 isn't an answer to the question. You might as well as said "Genesis to Revelation" instead.

If you think Eph 3 contains the answer, please reference the specific verses.


Still not an answer to my question of WHY preach TO every creature if the gospel isn't FOR every creature.

I'm beginning to think you don't actually have an answer.

So I am curious what you think Romans 8 says here, Do you believe God has predestined some to be saved?

Romans 8

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

"that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

This is the same that Peter states and Heb 2 also in bringing many sons to glory in reference to creating the family of God.

1 Peter 2

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Chosen implies a choosing, your philosophy implies God has chosen us because we chose for God.
The word though says He predestined, and all of this in reference to individual calling as it says 'THOSE'.

 

[intojoy]

Eh? Too many movies? or this maybe
Although I understand what your saying, do you think these scriptures are using the wrong words?
KJ
Matthew 4:24

NKJV

NIV

Well, according to what I've heard, possession isn't the correct translation of the term. Why don't you look it up for me. Thx

 

[intojoy]

I said this:

And you said this:

No, Eph 3 isn't an answer to the question. You might as well as said "Genesis to Revelation" instead.

If you think Eph 3 contains the answer, please reference the specific verses.

Still not an answer to my question of WHY preach TO every creature if the gospel isn't FOR every creature.

I'm beginning to think you don't actually have an answer.

They can't answer that

 

[FreeGrace2]

So I am curious what you think Romans 8 says here, Do you believe God has predestined some to be saved?

No, of course not. Because it doesn't say that. Who are predestined, and what are they predestined TO? Paul was addressing believers, so it is believers who are predestined. But what are believers predestined TO? I'll let Paul explain:
Rom 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

The verse says that believers are predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son. In fact, in other verses, believers are commanded to conform.

This is the same that Peter states and Heb 2 also in bringing many sons to glory in reference to creating the family of God.

Of course He brings many believers to glory. What verse from Peter were you thinking of?

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, A royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light

Chosen implies a choosing, your philosophy implies God has chosen us because we chose for God.

No, "chosen" doesn't "imply" a choosing; it IS a choosing. The question should be; chosen for WHAT? Rom 9:11 speaks of the "purpose of election". iow, whatever God chooses, there is always a purpose in that choice.

Are you aware that the Bible indicates at least 6 different elections? Here's what I've found:
1. Christ was chosen
2. angels are chosen
3. nation of Israel was chosen
4. church age believers are called the elect
5. first 12 disciples were chosen, though Judas was a 'demon'.
6. Paul was chosen to minister to Gentiles

Not any of these categories indicates being chosen for salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

They can't answer that

My point exactly.

 

[RisingSpirit]

...The Bible clearly states that Jesus tased death for all. Not "some", not the "elect", not "just believers". But all. ...

​

[SIZE=+1]The semi-Pelagian take on this is Prescient Election.

The Most High looks into the future and sees all us
'good people' who will "come to God" and "accept Jesus"
...then chooses them to save !

This reducing the Supreme Being to a mere ticket-taker
at the gates of heaven.

A doctrine totally alien to the Scriptures !



God's Word (Bible), instead, has Saving Faith as a "gift"
("God has allotted to each a measure of faith" Romans 12:3
NASB).

If the Lord were to look into the future to see who -on their
own- will have faith, He would see ...NOBODY ![/SIZE]

 

[RisingSpirit]

Many are called but few chosen. So, we receive the Gospel Invitation yet are unable to comprehend it.

We want to think the Bible is plain, and God not arbitrary. Well, it ain't and He ain't !

The Gospel is for His Chosen Ones. Why would the Supreme Being write a gospel to those who are going to Hell anyway ?

Sure, we proclaim the Gospel of Grace to everybody willing to listen because we aren't the Lord and don't know who is Elect.

But, ~He~ knows and His Word does go out without effect (Isaiah 55:11).

The ramification being: Fallen Nature abhors a vacuum. The unregenerate -not comprehending the meaning of The Word- fills in the blanks.

We make salvation all about Me ! And God's sovereignty becomes heresy.

 

[nobdysfool]

They can't answer that

Oh, we CAN, but you refuse to receive it. At some point, you realize that the pain will stop if you stop smashing your head into the wall....

 

[intojoy]

Oh, we CAN, but you refuse to receive it. At some point, you realize that the pain will stop if you stop smashing your head into the wall....

Christ died for "all"
While we were his enemies

 

[nobdysfool]

Christ died for "all"
While we were his enemies

Did Christ die for those whom He knew would never be saved, and in reality never intended to save?

 

[RisingSpirit]

Oh, we CAN, but you refuse to receive it. At some point, you realize that the pain will stop if you stop smashing your head into the wall....

I see stains all over this area. Some has to say what they say cause their pastors and circles of church friends tell them what to say. Deep down they're really saying, "help me ! help me !" cause they can't stop banging their heads on their denominations walls.

​

 

[sdowney717]

No, of course not. Because it doesn't say that. Who are predestined, and what are they predestined TO? Paul was addressing believers, so it is believers who are predestined. But what are believers predestined TO? I'll let Paul explain:
Rom 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

The verse says that believers are predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son. In fact, in other verses, believers are commanded to conform.


Of course He brings many believers to glory. What verse from Peter were you thinking of?


No, "chosen" doesn't "imply" a choosing; it IS a choosing. The question should be; chosen for WHAT? Rom 9:11 speaks of the "purpose of election". iow, whatever God chooses, there is always a purpose in that choice.

Are you aware that the Bible indicates at least 6 different elections? Here's what I've found:
1. Christ was chosen
2. angels are chosen
3. nation of Israel was chosen
4. church age believers are called the elect
5. first 12 disciples were chosen, though Judas was a 'demon'.
6. Paul was chosen to minister to Gentiles

Not any of these categories indicates being chosen for salvation.

Ok, so then what do you think this means, what is Paul teaching believers here about being the phrase

just as HE chose US in HIM and also mentions

predestined US to adoption as sons?

And scripture says this choosing us in Him, predestining us to be sons is according to His will, meaning He chose us to be

"holy and without blame before Him" which means saved.
No one who abides in Him sins. 1 John 3:6

Whoever abides in Him does not sin

"He made us accepted in the Beloved."
Which also means saved.

Ephesians 1

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,

according to the good pleasure of His will,

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The semi-Pelagian take on this is Prescient Election.

The Most High looks into the future and sees all us
'good people' who will "come to God" and "accept Jesus"
...then chooses them to save !

This reducing the Supreme Being to a mere ticket-taker
at the gates of heaven.

A doctrine totally alien to the Scriptures !

Correct. What you present is totally alien to Scripture. And it is NOT my view. Not even close.

Here is what I posted, which resulted in the ridiculous rant above:

The Bible clearly states that Jesus tased death for all. Not "some", not the "elect", not "just believers". But all. ...

The view that says "the Most High looks into the future and chooses those who will believe", is a view that denies the omniscience of God. Because God doesn't have to "look into the future" to know who will believe. He has always known. By having to look into the future means that God learns by doing so.

But, because God is omniscient and knows everything, He cannot learn.

So what you claim is a "semi-pelagian" view is certainly in error, and is not my view.

But the real question here is why you went on your semi-pelagian rant when my quote had nothing to do with God looking into the future. What prompted that rant?

In fact we know from the Bible that God is pleased to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Do you really want to argue that being well pleased to save believers isn't a choice?

God's Word (Bible), instead, has Saving Faith as a "gift"
("God has allotted to each a measure of faith" Romans 12:3
NASB).

No, you are wrong. Eph 2:8 SAYS that salvation is a gift, which is affirmed in Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If the Lord were to look into the future to see who -on their
own- will have faith, He would see ...NOBODY !

Well, good news, RS. He doesn't "look into the future". He doesn't have a crystal ball because He doesn't need one. He is omniscient.

However, your conclusion is still in error because He is omniscient and has always known who will believe.

 

[RisingSpirit]

...But, because God is omniscient and knows everything, He cannot learn.

If we both agree on that then why are we disagreeing? We're not sure where you got your views. Is that a non denominational thing?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Many are called but few chosen.

How sad, but seems to be quite true among the Calvinists. Yet, none of them can satisfactorily explain Matt 22:14, which you quote here.

If God has already preselected all he will save, then WHY WHY are "many" called, meaning invited? Why would God invite any of the non-elect? Calvinism simply has no answer because their theology is in error.

So, we receive the Gospel Invitation yet are unable to comprehend it.

We want to think the Bible is plain, and God not arbitrary. Well, it ain't and He ain't !

Your opinion is hilarious!

The Gospel is for His Chosen Ones. Why would the Supreme Being write a gospel to those who are going to Hell anyway ?

That's it, RS. Just keep on digging your hole deeper and deeper.

Here is what the Bible SAYS, PLAIN and simple:
Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

You remind me of this verse:
Let God be true, and every man a liar.

Since the gospel is to be preached TO every creature, it is FOR every creature.

We make salvation all about Me !

Yes, I agree. Calvinists do that, sure enough.

And God's sovereignty becomes heresy.

And Calvinists do not understand God's sovereignty at all. To Calvinists, God is merely a puppeteer who pulls the strings, which is why events occur. LOL

 

[FreeGrace2]

Oh, we CAN, but you refuse to receive it. At some point, you realize that the pain will stop if you stop smashing your head into the wall....

Why don't you cut the cute and just give your answer, since you insinuate that you actually do have one. Fair enough?