Jesus As Lord

1watchman

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The Lord Jesus is presented to mankind as the "Son of God" and "Son of man", and as the Redeemer-Savior, and the Lord; and all "born again" saints are regarded as "brethren" -plural meaning "fellow members" (see Webster's Dictionary for brethren).

It is reducing the Lord to a common man to refer to Him as "my brother" and the Father as "my dad" as some careless remarks are made; it is disrespectful. He counts all true believers as "brethren" --fellow members of the spiritual family, not as kindred relations of men.

It is a mis-translation in some Bible versions to call the Lord as our brother --single reference, and ourselves as His "brothers and sisters" ( Romans 8:29). The proper ref. for Romans 8 is "...among many brethren" as shown in sound Bible versions.
 

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Boidae

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The Lord Jesus is presented to mankind as the "Son of God" and "Son of man", and as the Redeemer-Savior, and the Lord; and all "born again" saints are regarded as "brethren" -plural meaning "fellow members" (see Webster's Dictionary for brethren).

It is reducing the Lord to a common man to refer to Him as "my brother" and the Father as "my dad" as some careless remarks are made; it is disrespectful. He counts all true believers as "brethren" --fellow members of the spiritual family, not as kindred relations of men.

It is a mis-translation in some Bible versions to call the Lord as our brother --single reference, and ourselves as His "brothers and sisters" ( Romans 8:29). The proper ref. for Romans 8 is "...among many brethren" as shown in sound Bible versions.


Are you sure about the above?

From the KJV Matthew 12:46-50

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Verse 50 seems clear to me.
 
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tremble

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boidae, I suspect watchman will say that yes, we are spiritual brothers but that it is not okay to use the word brother in the place of a more holy word like lord or saviour etc. So we can say, "Jesus is my spiritual brother" but we cannot say, " brother help me to be patient today".

Is that what you mean, watchman? Personally I don't think Jesus would mind as long as we are humble and sincere about it.
 
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1watchman

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Generally good thoughts! What I said is what I believe is important. I surely agree we need to be humble and sincere about and to the Lord.

The verses shown by Boidae are to be understood as both His earthly family and all "brethren", I see. Jesus did regard all as an earthly family, as well as brethren in the spiritual reference; and we need to see Him as both "Son of God" as well as "Son of man".
 
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jbearnolimits

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Well, when you consider we become joint heirs with Christ and when you consider that God is called Father...and then when you consider Jesus Himself said we were His family then you may come to the conclusion that God is the Father of believers and if Jesus is His son then we are brothers and sisters with Him.

This in no way disrespects Him though. Remember the verse that said Jesus didn't think it robbery to be equal with God even though He was in the form of a man?
 
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1watchman

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Yes, Jesus did say that, but it IS robbery for US to think we are equal with the Lord Jesus or the Father. We need to be careful about coming to a "conclusion" of our reasoning. We note Jesus said: "I ascend to My Father and your father" --not our Father.

It is better to use the language of Scripture rather than the common worldly type references, heard by some souls who do not regard holiness and godliness.
 
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jbearnolimits

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Yes, Jesus did say that, but it IS robbery for US to think we are equal with the Lord Jesus or the Father. We need to be careful about coming to a "conclusion" of our reasoning. We note Jesus said: "I ascend to My Father and your father" --not our Father.

It is better to use the language of Scripture rather than the common worldly type references, heard by some souls who do not regard holiness and godliness.

Hmmm...doesn't it mean the same thing as our Father when He says that? Besides, I am not sure if you are trying to say this or not so please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying our father is not God?

This would be true for those who are not saved but so many passages in the Bible make it clear that we are the children of God once we are born again.

Jesus actually made reference to the subject of being equal with God though He was in the form of a man. Take note that the words are plural meaning many.

John 10:33-36
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus quoted from this passage:

Psalm 82:6-7
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

It seems very clear that if Jesus was 100% man and 100% God then the 100% man part would have been blaspheming to say He was equal with God if this was sin.

Thus we come to the reason I took note of this topic. If we do not understand that when Jesus spoke and when He did things as a man on earth He did it as though He was the same as us. He came in the flesh. All 100% of it.

So if He being a man filled with the Spirit of God could be equal then so could we.

Don't think I am trying to say we are holy or somehow all powerful in ourselves. We are not. But we who have been saved have a new holy spirit in us. The spirit of Christ. The spirit of God. Just as Jesus was 100% man He also had 100% of the spirit of God. That is us when we are born again.

With this comes a lot of details found through the Bible for how we should walk as Christ walked. It is true that we often do not follow as well.

But I had to say something. This doctrine of being equal is hard for many to understand and some would try to abuse it. But it is true. The only way to say otherwise would be to say that Jesus did not come in the flesh...which as the Bible says is the spirit of antichrist.

Just some food for thought. I know it may sound harsh, I don't mean to hurt anyone. I am actually trying to be helpful.
 
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1watchman

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It would be a bit better if I comment within your post, brother.

Hmmm...doesn't it mean the same thing as our Father when He says that? Besides, I am not sure if you are trying to say this or not so please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying our father is not God? [No, I do not deny our heavenly Father as God, but we need to understand the Father aspect of the Godhead --Jehovah-God, who is our spiritual Father, not like a father on earth, who fails to rise to the level of God; therefore we reverence Him, not speak of Him as "my dad" as I said some do.]

This would be true for those who are not saved but so many passages in the Bible make it clear that we are the children of God once we are born again. [That statement concerning "born again" believers is very true.]

Jesus actually made reference to the subject of being equal with God though He was in the form of a man. Take note that the words are plural meaning many.

John 10:33-36
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? [Jesus was and is God; but not man. What Jesus said to the Jews about Israelites is that they are as gods to the natural man who is yet in sin. Jesus had the right to say He is God (the "I Am" as the Word shows). We don't have that place.]

Jesus quoted from this passage:

Psalm 82:6-7
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. [The same thought here as I just said. In the Psalm the rebellious Israelites were not acting in a godly way and would "die like (natural) men"]

It seems very clear that if Jesus was 100% man and 100% God then the 100% man part would have been blaspheming to say He was equal with God if this was sin. [We should not dichotomize the Lord by our simple reasoning. We must never equate the Lord Jesus as man, even though He was born AS a man by mankind, and suffered as a man, but was at the same time the Son of God by His deity; and He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again as He said.]

Thus we come to the reason I took note of this topic. If we do not understand that when Jesus spoke and when He did things as a man on earth He did it as though He was the same as us. He came in the flesh. All 100% of it. So if He being a man filled with the Spirit of God could be equal then so could we. [I am sure we should not go there with that kind of natural man logic. It doesn't fit with the Holy Scripture.]

Don't think I am trying to say we are holy or somehow all powerful in ourselves. We are not. But we who have been saved have a new holy spirit in us. The spirit of Christ. The spirit of God. Just as Jesus was 100% man He also had 100% of the spirit of God. That is us when we are born again. [As a prince in a kingdom, that one cannot say he is equal with the king; and neither can we in God's Kingdom.]

With this comes a lot of details found through the Bible for how we should walk as Christ walked. It is true that we often do not follow as well.

But I had to say something. This doctrine of being equal is hard for many to understand and some would try to abuse it. But it is true. The only way to say otherwise would be to say that Jesus did not come in the flesh...which as the Bible says is the spirit of antichrist. [I cannot take further time to expand on this here, but it is true that the Holy God (Jesus-God) came into this world and could even walk through doors by being invisible, etc.; don't you try it or you will be hurt, friend]

Just some food for thought. I know it may sound harsh, I don't mean to hurt anyone. I am actually trying to be helpful.
[Thanks for sharing; and if you wish to pursue this you can PM me. Look up always!]
 
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jbearnolimits

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Jesus was and is God; but not man.
[Thanks for sharing; and if you wish to pursue this you can PM me. Look up always!]

I would rather not worry about sending a PM. There is no need since I will go no further than this post on the subject and let everyone see the scriptures in public so that they can make their own minds up.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;


What Jesus said to the Jews about Israelites is that they are as gods to the natural man who is yet in sin......

The same thought here as I just said. In the Psalm the rebellious Israelites were not acting in a godly way and would "die like (natural) men

Let me put that scripture here again:

John 10:33-36
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Note the plural use of the words here. Also note that Jesus said "unto whom the word of God came". Jesus is the word of God as the scripture has said already. Who did He come to? He came to us. The words show that He was not speaking of Himself alone but of those to whom He came. Also note the lack of any words that would show He may have been speaking metaphorically.

We must never equate the Lord Jesus as man, even though He was born AS a man by mankind, and suffered as a man, but was at the same time the Son of God by His deity; and He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again as He said

It is true that Jesus is God. It is also true He was man...born as a man, and suffered as a man. So your words here seem to suggest that you know He was both but you refuse to acknowledge Him as both.

As a prince in a kingdom, that one cannot say he is equal with the king; and neither can we in God's Kingdom

Indeed, we are not the King. We do however have the authority of the King through His name. As I said before, this is a hard thing for many to understand and many would try to abuse it.

This isn't about us trying to say we are God. This is about us being brothers and sisters of Christ and children of the Father. We give reverence to our Father. Even as the scriptures tell us to do so:

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

I cannot take further time to expand on this here, but it is true that the Holy God (Jesus-God) came into this world and could even walk through doors by being invisible, etc.; don't you try it or you will be hurt, friend

You said this in response to my last statement. I noticed you didn't address the issue of the spirit of antichrist.

Anyway, I feel I should remind you of others who did similar things and I doubt you would refuse that they were men.

Acts 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

There are many things men can do through the Spirit of God.

But lets deal with the big issue...

I said: "The only way to say otherwise would be to say that Jesus did not come in the flesh...which as the Bible says is the spirit of antichrist."

1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I have tested the spirit of the words you spoke. You have struggled to confess Jesus as being in the flesh. As I said above, your words here seem to suggest that you know He was both God and man but you refuse to acknowledge Him as both and hold to the thought that He was fully God and yet not fully man.

I know that sounded hard. Please don't take it personal because it is not you that I am coming against. Even Christians can say things through this spirit. Peter Himself had Jesus look at him and say "Get behind me Satan!"

It isn't you, it is the spirit behind the teaching. I urge you to test the spirit yourself and fight against it my brother.
 
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tremble

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Jesus actually made reference to the subject of being equal with God though He was in the form of a man. Take note that the words are plural meaning many.

It may be helpful if you comment a bit more specifically on what you mean by, "equal". Like, equal in knowledge, power, love or judgement? Could someone, after being saved, finding his place in Heaven and becoming equal to God then decide that he wants to offer salvation to a person God previously thought unworthy of salvation?

Will these people who become equal to God be able to make arbitrary decisions or will they still need to get approval from God as the boss?

Etc, etc...
 
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Neogaia777

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We need to take note that there are many sons (of God) who are also "Fathers'" spiritually, Abraham is called the "father" of faith, the Devil, the Father of the lie, Jesus and the Father, Love, and there are probably "fathers" for other terms (which are actually Sons) one of which being equal to and one with the Father (J.C.) anyways there are probably fathers for terms like peace, joy, faith, hope, trust, wisdom and things like these (probably)

Also, in Isaiah if you believe Imanuel was the name of the promised messiah king to be born to Israel, and you believe this is Jesus Christ, then it says that one of Imanuel's names is "Mighty God" and "The Everlasting Father" (Isiah 7:14)

What son was born to us, who's name would be "Everlasting Father", what man or boy qualifies...? I only know of one, Jesus Christ...

Isiah 9:6-7- "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7- "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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We need to take note that there are many sons (of God) who are also "Fathers'" spiritually, Abraham is called the "father" of faith, the Devil, the Father of the lie, Jesus and the Father, Love, and there are probably "fathers" for other terms (which are actually Sons) one of which being equal to and one with the Father (J.C.) anyways there are probably fathers for terms like peace, joy, faith, hope, trust, wisdom and things like these (probably)

Also, in Isaiah if you believe Imanuel was the name of the promised messiah king to be born to Israel, and you believe this is Jesus Christ, then it says that one of Imanuel's names is "Mighty God" and "The Everlasting Father" (Isiah 7:14)

What son was born to us, who's name would be "Everlasting Father", what man or boy qualifies...? I only know of one, Jesus Christ...

Isiah 9:6-7- "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7- "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

God Bless!

So, see even if you took Jesus out of the picture (just for arguments sake, just for the sake of those who might believe in the Hebrew Yahweh or Jehovah as the one and only father, and to them Christ is not it) Well, for those people for arguments sake, if you believe in the OT and the book of Isiah, then it essentially says that a human baby boy will be born to Israel, who would be called Imanuel, "God is with us", who would also grow up to attain the title, "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" and there was no human baby boy named Imanuel specifically born to Israel during the entire time of the OT... So, who is it?

God Bless!
 
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Bramwell

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Jesus is our Master, Teacher, and Lord - something more than a mere 'brother'. In fact this point is highlighted in the initial verses of Matthew 23.

That said, I also agree with something a poster said on the previous page, i.e. that what title we give Jesus is probably not that important to Him. Near the end of Matthew 7, Jesus says quite clearly that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" - His rightful title - will make it into heaven. He says that only those who obey His teachings are the ones with a solid spiritual foundation.

Similarly, Jesus gives a parable in Matthew 25 about the end times, and separating the sheep from the goats. It's noteworthy that how they viewed Jesus (e.g. as Lord or Master) does not get a mention as a determining factor for judgment. Rather, it is their actions (whether or not they show love for the poor, etc.) which are the determining factor. This fact lends support to the observation that it's not so much what we call Jesus that matters - it's whether or not we OBEY Him that shows where our heart's at.
 
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