Jesus and young man

Status
Not open for further replies.

alex2165

Newbie
Jan 2, 2014
382
83
✟11,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Jesus, Young Man, and Perfection.


Last week one young lady preached in the church. She is not the preacher yet, but it looks like that she will become one, so she training herself in this field of preaching before becomes professional one. She conducted her sermon on the subject of eternal life and wealth, presenting passages from Matthew 19.16-23, there is written conversation between Jesus Christ and the young rich man.


She presented this story in the same way as I heard it many times before, and really she presented nothing new concerning this story. She said, like many others I heard before, that because young man was not willing to follow Jesus Christ, he could not enter the Kingdom of GOD and have Eternal Life. Same conclusion was made by many others I heard before.


Every time I hear this story in the churches or from people, I kind of feel sorry for the young man who always been condemned to Hell, because everybody said that he is not saved for the reason that he was not able to do what many of us also unwilling and incapable to do, means to drop everything we have and follow Jesus Christ. So I took another closer look at those passages and I found that for this general perception of this story, to it can be given another explanation.


The young rich man approached Christ and asked Him, “What good deed must I do to have inherit Eternal Life?” Jesus Christ answered him with FIVE Statutes from Ten Commandments and stop. So in this situation Jesus Christ decided that even FIVE Statutes from the Ten Commandments of Moses will be enough for this young to enter Kingdom of GOD and have Eternal Life (if of course he will keep them to the rest of his life).


Seeing that Jesus answered him only with FIVE Commandments from the Law and stop short to saying him the rest of the remaining FIVE, he asked Jesus another question, “I have kept all these; what do I still lack?” Thinking perhaps that Jesus will deliver him another FIVE Commandments, so he would answer Him that he also fulfills and those too, in order to make this issue and His answer to him complete. And Jesus did not argued with him about his answer to Him that he kept those Commandments, because He knew that the young man told Him the truth.


So, even from this short conversation it is obvious that by fulfilling the Law, or even a part of it, sometimes it is enough for a person to be saved and enter the Kingdom of GOD and have Eternal Life. All depends on the situation, certain conditions, and on the GOD Himself Who will, or will not approve entrance to His Kingdom and the Eternal Life, because each life of men differs from another life’s man.


While Old and New Testaments specified certain general conditions in order to inherit Kingdom of GOD and Eternal Life, but it varies from person to person because we have different lives, and we are coming to the Lord by many different ways. So in case with the young rich man, our Lord Jesus Christ decided that fulfilling only FIVE Commandments out of Ten, the young man deserves Eternal Life, and on this answer of Jesus the issue about Eternal Life ends.


But Jesus at this point changed the subject of conversation from Eternal Life to a subject of PERFECTION, and declared to young man, “IF YOU WISH TO BE PERFECT, go sell your possessions, and give money to the poor, and you will have TREASURE IN HEAVEN; then come follow Me.” Matthew 19.21.


By this Statement Jesus declared to the young rich man, that he could do better and go far above 10 Commandments, means to go extra mile in order to receive even more than Eternal Life, but certain TREASURE IN HEAVEN. So the question about his salvation and Eternal Life at this point has been solved, he is saved and would have Eternal Life, but he could have more if he make himself more willing and more PERFECT, by dropping everything he have and follow Christ.


TREASURE IN HEAVEN, certainly means no gold or silver or bags of money, but it means something spiritual and very important. Most likely it means high status, high position, high authority, high power and beauty in the hierarchy of Heaven among the servants, the angels of the Lord, and perhaps even much more we do not know about.

So this means that the Salvation and Eternal Life are not the ultimate goals for us to achieve, and not the end of the line, but beside these things there is much more to have and to achieve, and such work starts not in Heaven but here on Earth.


Word PERFECT, in this case between Jesus and young man, means to improve yourself, to achieve higher possible perfection of yourself, in order to have much more than just Eternal Life. It may also means to be as much as possible closer to GOD in the hierarchy of Heavenly Beings. We have many ambitions here on Erath, and many of us trying to achieve certain high goals, desires, and achievements in our Earthly environment. And in order to fulfill all our ambitions we have to educated ourselves, and made certain financial and material sacrifices.


And same things apply also and for Heaven. And in order to achieve greater goal in Heaven, we also must made certain sacrifices here on Earth, so we would have in Heaven “TREASURE.” And in this case with the young man, it required by Jesus to give up everything he own and follow Him in order to have that TREASURE.


But it is not the case with everyone, because to some Jesus told to follow Him, and to some He said not to follow Him, because He knew what kind of things requires for each and every man to be saved, or to be perfect and high in Heaven.


So, shall not the certain sacrifices have to be done here on Earth in order to achieve higher status and rank among Heavenly Beings in the Kingdom of GOD? And exactly about the same sacrifices of self-denial and self-sacrifice, giving up all possessions, Jesus Christ told the young rich man when He said to him, “IF YOU WISH TO BE PERFECT.”

Shall we not have the ambition to be greatest in the Kingdom of GOD instead of on Earth? Here on Earth everything is temporary, but in Heaven everything last forever.


Above all, we also must realized the difficulty of leaving everything behind and follow Christ. In the case with the young man, he must leave his family, his father and mother, brothers and sisters, and everything he own and posses, and his entire estate, and go with Christ to travel on dusty roads, have no place to sleep, to have occasional meals and be hungry and thirsty most of the time, be dirty and unwashed, suffer from heat by day and from cold by night, and be hated and persecuted by those who do not accepted teaching of Christ.


And here the question for all of us. If Jesus Christ comes to you right now and told you the same thing that He had told to the young rich man, would you drop everything and follow Him? And if you are honest and decent man or a woman, I believe that the answer will be ,”NO,” because it requires much more than we are capable of. And blaming the young man for not following Christ and saying that he is not saved because he does not follow Christ, is a plain hypocrisy and misunderstanding of the story.


And this is why disciples of Christ asked him, “Then who can be saved?” Because even for them, for those who have almost nothing, even for them it is very hard to give up everything they have and follow Someone Who has absolutely nothing Himself.


“But for GOD all things are possible.” That was the answer of Jesus Christ to their question. This means that GOD can make a human being literally give up everything and follow Him, and it was done with many, and even more was done by GOD than that, GOD make people to give up even their lives for His sake, which is will be impossible for human beings to do by themselves.


And there is no question in my mind that the young rich man was saved according to the Commandments of GOD and the answer of Jesus Christ to him. And we do not know what actually become of him later. Because by the power of GOD on him he may later did exactly as Jesus Christ asked of him to do, and may indeed become one among many greatest in the kingdom of GOD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AllanV

miamited

Ted
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi alex,

I think you may have misunderstood the message. The rich young man wasn't lost because he wouldn't give up his riches. He was lost because his riches meant more to him than the things of God.

God's word never tells us that we have to give up everything we have in this life to follow him. Many of the righteous men of the old covenant had fairly comfortable wealth. But we have to be very careful about our understanding of wealth. Do we see it as a blessing of God for the work of His purposes He has given it to us, or does our wealth keep us from God because it provides us a comfort that allows us to think that we don't need God.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
Upvote 0

tdidymas

Newbie
Aug 28, 2014
2,323
998
Houston, TX
✟163,485.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Jesus said "it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven..." meaning (by the context of the conversation) that the young fellow DID NOT enter (at least at that time). The young man was committing idolatry by holding his material wealth as a higher priority than his eternal welfare. Jesus said "you cannot serve God and mammon" meaning that this man was serving mammon (money).

Further, the evidence that you miss the gospel message is in your statement about people entering the kingdom through obedience to commandments. But the gospel clearly states that it is by trusting Christ alone. We are justified by God through our faith in Christ, and not through our faith in our ability to obey the laws (Rom. 3:28).

Finally, you used the right word for the passage of scripture - it was a conversation. This means that when Jesus listed out five of the commandments, he is simply giving a partial list. The rest of the commandments are implied by the context of the conversation. And the reason why Jesus was saying that he could have eternal life by obeying the commandments, is that the commandments are the measuring rod - they are to be used as a way to measure our love for God, Christ, and others, in order to lead us to Christ. The commandments are NOT a means to eternal life, because they cannot GIVE LIFE!! Only Christ can give life, so the commandments can only teach us our need for Him.

Hope this helps,
TD:)
 
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,475
45,435
67
✟2,929,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
...the commandments are the measuring rod - they are to be used as a way to measure our love for God, Christ, and others, in order to lead us to Christ. The commandments are NOT a means to eternal life, because they cannot GIVE LIFE!! Only Christ can give life, so the commandments can only teach us our need for Him.

Hi Tdidymas, very well put :) I agree, of course, and so does St. Paul who told us:

"The Law has become our 'paidagogos' [our harsh tutor] to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith." ~Gal 3:24

John MacArthur agrees as well:

...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
This, of course, is law, not gospel. Before showing him the way to life, Jesus wanted to impress on the young man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merit. This should have elicited a response about the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly (like the disciples’ response in v. 25), but instead the young man confidently declared that he qualified for heaven under those terms.
...I have kept. The self-righteous young man would not admit to his own sin.
So the Lord upped the ante, so to speak, and made it impossible for the young man to do otherwise (MacArthur continues):

...go, sell what you have and give to the poor.
Again, Jesus was not setting forth terms for salvation, but rather exposing the young man’s true heart. His refusal to obey here revealed two things: 1) he was not blameless as far as the law was concerned, because he was guilty of loving himself and his possessions more than his neighbors (cf. v. 19); and 2) he lacked true faith, which involves a willingness to surrender all at Christ’s bidding (16:24). Jesus was not teaching salvation by philanthropy; but He was demanding that this young man give Him first place. The young man failed the test (v. 22). come, follow Me. This was the answer to the young man’s question in v. 16. It was a call to faith. It is likely that the young man never even heard or contemplated it, though, because his own love of his possessions was such a stumbling block that he had already rejected Jesus’ claim to lordship over his life. Thus he walked away in unbelief.

Hi Alex, there's another, similar passage in Luke 10 that goes as follows:

"A lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” ~Lk 10:25-27
Jesus said to him,

“You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” ~Lk 10:28

These two commandments are the summation of the entire Law of God and all that is required to save yourself. No "biggie" right, just: "love the Lord with ALL your heart, your soul, your strength, and your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself".

Can you honestly say that you've been able to do either one in your life, even once :scratch: (no need to answer that ;)) In fact, the real question to answer is, have you failed to do either one .. even once? (i.e. Matthew 5:48; James 2:10)

Yours and His,
David


"By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of
works, so that no one may boast"

Ephesians 2:8-9

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PrettyboyAndy
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
47
Pa
✟6,506.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You completely missed the point.

The rich man did not keep 5 of the ten commandment God tells us no one obeys the law, not one of us. so no this man could not get to heaven by keeping the law, that was the old covenant and no one kept it has been proven. Jesus said sell everything you have then you will have treasure in Heaven, the man had no treasure in Heaven meaning He was not part of the kingdom of Heaven, everyone who is part of Heaven has treasure there. 2nd point Jesus said if you would be prefect, everyone in Heaven is perfect again this shows the man did not have a place in heaven yet. The last point is Jesus told him to follow him, the man was offered salvation, but turned it down because he was rich. The point being Jesus is the only one to salvation.

If Jesus came right now and told you to follow Him and you would not that means you are not saved, because Jesus will come and call us up to Heaven and if you are not ready you will be left behind. My bags are pack I am ready. Would I leave everything yes, and I have before. While it maybe hard for you to see past your self because you could not do this any of Jesus children would leave. Just like the disciples did when Jesus called. What you have shown is the different between those who follow Jesus and those who say they do. That is what the story Jesus told meant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

alex2165

Newbie
Jan 2, 2014
382
83
✟11,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think this is not only me who” missed the point,” all of us missed a point.

The rich young man does not attach himself to his riches, or he would not come to Christ to ask a question about eternal life. At that time many people considered Christ as a Prophet and this is why he called him Teacher. And young man came to Him because he saw in Him the true Prophet, in order to reassure himself that he is on the right track.

Concerning the rich, in general they divided on two categories, on those who rich and obeying the word of GOD and fear the Lord, just like the rich young man.

And on those who are rich, but do not care for the Lord or His Commandments, but only care to get rich and trust in their riches, as only thing that would give them all they need. Such rich people do not seek GOD or seek answers to their spiritual questions as the young man did.

So when Christ mentioned about rich and how hard for them to enter the Kingdom of GOD, Jesus exactly meant this particular group of rich men who do not care for GOD nor for their souls, but only for their riches.

And let now examine ourselves, some of us much more rich than others, and if asked to drop everything and with only your clothes on you to follow Christ on His mission to preach the Gospel, and suffer immensely as He did, I would say that many of us would hesitate as the young rich man did, because not everybody have strong will to do such thing, and the Lord GOD knows it.

But again, if we fail in this particular test, we may succeed in other things, and not lose our rewards and salvation, but be a lesser rank in the Kingdom of GOD. And again, if GOD will, He can change any of us, and we will do whatever is required from us, and it could happen to the young rich man.

So judging young man with one side of the issue and ignoring the other is not right and fair.

Because being rich but fail certain statutes of GOD or some of His Commandments does not mean losing salvation, because no one can be so perfect as to fulfill the whole Law without never sinned, but being rich and ignoring Him and His Commandments, surely such attitude will block the entrance into His Kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
47
Pa
✟6,506.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I think this is not only me who” missed the point,” all of us missed a point.

The rich young man does not attach himself to his riches, or he would not come to Christ to ask a question about eternal life. At that time many people considered Christ as a Prophet and this is why he called him Teacher. And young man came to Him because he saw in Him the true Prophet, in order to reassure himself that he is on the right track.

Concerning the rich, in general they divided on two categories, on those who rich and obeying the word of GOD and fear the Lord, just like the rich young man.

And on those who are rich, but do not care for the Lord or His Commandments, but only care to get rich and trust in their riches, as only thing that would give them all they need. Such rich people do not seek GOD or seek answers to their spiritual questions as the young man did.

So when Christ mentioned about rich and how hard for them to enter the Kingdom of GOD, Jesus exactly meant this particular group of rich men who do not care for GOD nor for their souls, but only for their riches.

And let now examine ourselves, some of us much more rich than others, and if asked to drop everything and with only your clothes on you to follow Christ on His mission to preach the Gospel, and suffer immensely as He did, I would say that many of us would hesitate as the young rich man did, because not everybody have strong will to do such thing, and the Lord GOD knows it.

But again, if we fail in this particular test, we may succeed in other things, and not lose our rewards and salvation, but be a lesser rank in the Kingdom of GOD. And again, if GOD will, He can change any of us, and we will do whatever is required from us, and it could happen to the young rich man.

So judging young man with one side of the issue and ignoring the other is not right and fair.

Because being rich but fail certain statutes of GOD or some of His Commandments does not mean losing salvation, because no one can be so perfect as to fulfill the whole Law without never sinned, but being rich and ignoring Him and His Commandments, surely such attitude will block the entrance into His Kingdom.

Look if you want to tell yourself lies to feel good fine but don't bring others in on it trying to pass it off as doctrine. You are trying to teach over Jesus. There is such a thing as context. Jesus did not say this rich group is ok but this is bad you added that to make your self feel good. what Jesus said was it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than a rich man to enter Heaven, but God said it is possible. It is so hard because they will not leave there stuff for God, they have everything they need already as they see it. Fact if Jesus calls and you do not follow Him you have no part in Heaven. Fact the man loved His riches more than Jesus because it said the man turned away for he was very rich. This shows he chose wealth over Jesus.

And I am not a young man, so you can take your belittling comment and walk away boy. Also we are all equal in Heaven there is no rank. Jesus said let no one call you rabbi for you are all equal under God.
 
Upvote 0

miamited

Ted
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2010
13,243
6,313
Seneca SC
✟705,807.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi alex,

re: post 6

The Scriptures say that after Jesus told him what he must do that he turned away 'for he had great wealth'. Now, you're free to understand that sentence any way you like, but for me, the Scriptures are making clear that it was his great wealth that kept him from embracing Jesus.

Yes, he had kept the law. After all, he was a Jew and one thing Jews generally pride themselves on is keeping the law. Even though the Scriptures clearly say, even under the old covenant, that keeping the law does not gain eternal life. If one carefully reads the law, we find that the promise God made to Israel for keeping the law and commandments was nothing more than peace in this life. Not that that's not a great thing, but it isn't eternal life.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
  • Like
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mikedsjr

Master Newbie
Aug 7, 2014
981
196
Fort Worth,Tx
✟17,192.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I would reject the notion it was great wealth or refusal to pass a test of giving up what he has. Like everyone on earth, we are born dead to Christ. Anyone who is of Christ is there due to God. We have nothing to tell us the man never came to know Christ. We don't know. What we have is a man who desired to earn his way to heaven and Jesus, who being fully God and fully man, knew the heart of the man and stated what he knew the man wasn't willing to do. Of course he wouldn't do it. He was still dead in sin.

My two cents for what it's worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
47
Pa
✟6,506.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I would reject the notion it was great wealth or refusal to pass a test of giving up what he has. Like everyone on earth, we are born dead to Christ. Anyone who is of Christ is there due to God. We have nothing to tell us the man never came to know Christ. We don't know. What we have is a man who desired to earn his way to heaven and Jesus, who being fully God and fully man, knew the heart of the man and stated what he knew the man wasn't willing to do. Of course he wouldn't do it. He was still dead in sin.

My two cents for what it's worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course you would reject Jesus's teaching on the matter you don't believe in free will or that we say yes to God you think God force those He choose to be saved. Thank God that doctrine did not last in the church.
 
Upvote 0

tdidymas

Newbie
Aug 28, 2014
2,323
998
Houston, TX
✟163,485.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The rich young man does not attach himself to his riches, or he would not come to Christ to ask a question about eternal life.

Alex, I get your point about we might be rich enough to hesitate as the young man did.

But you are not correctly interpreting the text with your statement above. It is true that the young man was seeking eternal life. But he definitely was attached to his riches, this is the nature of him going away sadly, and Jesus saying "it is hard for a rich man..."

Whenever you interpret scripture, you must take the whole context into account, not insert your own idea into the reading.
TD:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: St_Worm2
Upvote 0

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,424.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Oh a woman preaching? Who do you think you are to judge someone the Holy Spirit maybe using for His mouth peice? Can God not pick who He chooses to speak or use be it man or woman, or child?

God's word has already stated who can preach and we are judged according to God's holy word, "...he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

Those who claim to be "spiritual" must be spiritual according to scripture. The problem is...most people deny the plain teaching of scripture and therefore leave themselves open to judgement. If you deny the scriptural teaching on ministers of the Gospel you are open to judgement.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PrettyboyAndy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
47
Pa
✟6,506.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
God's word has already stated who can preach and we are judged according to God's holy word, "...he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

Those who claim to be "spiritual" must be spiritual according to scripture. The problem is...most people deny the plain teaching of scripture and therefore leave themselves open to judgement. If you deny the scriptural teaching on ministers of the Gospel you are open to judgement.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
Yeah it does not say that. It is why we have preachers to help understand say the writing of Paul. God made a woman a Judge that was over a nation and she certainly told men what to do. That is much higher than a preacher in a church. Don't past your lack of understand off as doctrine there is a reason so many leaders in the church say it is ok for women to preach. Jesus said let no one call you rabbi for you are all equal under God, not the men but all are equal.
 
Upvote 0

PrettyboyAndy

• Andy •
Site Supporter
Sep 14, 2009
1,080
353
Toronto/NY
✟93,218.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yeah it does not say that. It is why we have preachers to help understand say the writing of Paul. God made a woman a Judge that was over a nation and she certainly told men what to do. That is much higher than a preacher in a church. Don't past your lack of understand off as doctrine there is a reason so many leaders in the church say it is ok for women to preach. Jesus said let no one call you rabbi for you are all equal under God, not the men but all are equal.

1 Timothy 2
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Doesn't this mean women shouldn't teach?

I have no problem with women leading womens bible study, But I believe scripture tells us women aught not to preach/teach men or mixed group women/men
 
  • Like
Reactions: JM
Upvote 0

Bluelion

Peace and Love
Oct 6, 2013
4,341
313
47
Pa
✟6,506.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
1 Timothy 2
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Doesn't this mean women shouldn't teach?

I have no problem with women leading womens bible study, But I believe scripture tells us women aught not to preach/teach men or mixed group women/men

If you would like to start a thread I would be happy to discuss it but this threat is not about that, so I will say this and leave it at that.

Let's look at the KJV But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

See that word usurp that means to act on ones own behalf or in ones self interest. The woman can not take a teaching role simply because she wants to teach. A woman may however be called by God to do just that.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,424.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
If you would like to start a thread I would be happy to discuss it but this threat is not about that, so I will say this and leave it at that.

Let's look at the KJV But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

See that word usurp that means to act on ones own behalf or in ones self interest. The woman can not take a teaching role simply because she wants to teach. A woman may however be called by God to do just that.

Women are disqualified from preaching so her "preaching" should not be considered "Christian" preaching.

jm
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JM

Augsburg Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,361
3,628
Canada
✟747,424.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
1 Timothy 2
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Doesn't this mean women shouldn't teach?

I have no problem with women leading womens bible study, But I believe scripture tells us women aught not to preach/teach men or mixed group women/men

Exactly.

It's a cultural idea, not a biblical one, that allows for women to be "ministers."

Yours in the Lord.

jm
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.