James says faith without works is dead.

Sophrosyne

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I'd add an additional problem. No one knows how many good works are needed or which ones earn more merit than others. All that church members know, when you get right down to it, is..."do them."
And often these works based salvation groups profit off of their "version" of the Gospel by blackmailing them into thinking that if they don't shell out works or money they could lose their salvation.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Acts 16:29-31New American Standard Bible (NASB)
29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

The Jailer Converted
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Notice there is nothing about works here..... just believing.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Acts 15:8-12New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.

Now here the audience was Jews who were doing works vs Gentiles that were not. I've seen lame arguments that works of the Law don't count in salvation but alas the Law itself requires charity giving so if this is the case then works of charity are out for believers as "works".
 
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EmSw

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Acts 15:8-12New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.

Now here the audience was Jews who were doing works vs Gentiles that were not. I've seen lame arguments that works of the Law don't count in salvation but alas the Law itself requires charity giving so if this is the case then works of charity are out for believers as "works".

Are you a lawless person?
 
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Sophrosyne

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Luke 7:46-50New American Standard Bible (NASB)
46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. 47 For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48 Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” 49 Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say a]">[a]to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” 50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
 
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Sophrosyne

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Finally the scripture under my name is the one that truly describes the main reason for works, which has nothing to do with our salvation but of others who need to see God's goodness and hopefully desire also to be saved because of us.

Matthew 5:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
 
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Soyeong

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2 Timothy 1:8-9New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Why did you quote this verse? It is perfectly in line with the post you responded to.
 
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Soyeong

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The biggest problem I see with works based salvation is it will always be unfair to someone who is saved at 4 years old and lives to be 97 vs someone who is saved at 96 and lives to be 97. According to those who base works into salvation both are saved but one doesn't have to do over 90 years worth of works to get his salvation.

Again, we aren't to do good works in order to be saved, but because we have been saved by faith from sin/doing bad works. We are new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works (Ephesians 2:10).
 
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Harfelugan

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Then why did James warn us that faith without works is dead?

Clearly it is possible to have faith without works.

Note that in Matt 25 the difference between the sheep and the goats is their actions, not their beliefs.


Reply not to you in general as many here share your conception.

The comparison to dead works, is related to faith/belief, as in even the demons believe and tremble, knowing their fate.
Could the emphasis of the text be more related to mental assent being claimed as faith. Like the percentage of inmates in America claiming Christian affiliation used to always be over 90%.
To take the arguments that faith referenced as saving faith can have a modifier in works doesn't set well with me. To lean to far either way makes mockery of Christ atoning work in my opinion. One being a works based salvation, and the other leaving a believer possibly not sure in his salvation till he enters glory, or not.
After making the statement James is both warning the offenders and giving the Church means to identify those walking in a belief based on mental assent.
 
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Albion

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All those who believe works aren't necessary.
Well, that's not correct. The only people who believe a dead faith can save would be those who believe that works are not only necessary but that they're ALL that's necessary for salvation.

But since the people in that category are hard to locate or identify, I was curious to know who, exactly, was being thought of.
 
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Job8

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Gotta get faith first
But it has to be given
Saving faith is generated through the preaching of the Gospel with the power of the Holy Spirit working on the sinner (Rom 10:17). Therefore Paul says that the Gospel is "the power of God unto salvation" (Rom 1:16). Do you believe it?

The spiritual gift of faith is a separate matter, and evidently would mean an extraordinary faith. At the same time faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains.
 
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Soyeong

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Acts 15:8-12New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.

Now here the audience was Jews who were doing works vs Gentiles that were not. I've seen lame arguments that works of the Law don't count in salvation but alas the Law itself requires charity giving so if this is the case then works of charity are out for believers as "works".

We must obey God rather than man, so we should be careful not to interpret the Bible as saying that we should obey man rather than God. If God said to do something and the Jerusalem Council said not to obey what God said to do, then we should ignore the Jerusalem Council and obey God instead. The Jerusalem Council had no authority to counterman God or to tell Gentiles not to obey His laws, or to add or subtract from His laws (Deuteronomy 4:2), but they only had the authority to interpret how we should obey God's laws. God's law does not require all Gentiles to come Jews and to keep their customs in order to be saved, so they were upholding the law by rejecting the group that was wanting to require Gentiles to do that. They were not rejecting God's holy, righteous, and good laws, but rather they were rejecting man-made customs.

Matthew 23:4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

The law is the good way that gives rest for our souls, so Jesus was comparing his yoke or how he taught to obey the law, which was light and easy, with the yoke of the Pharisees, or how they taught to obey the law, which was a heavy burden. The heavy burden is the mountains of man-made traditions for how to obey the law that perverted it into legalism. God said that His laws were not too difficult to obey (Deuteronomy 30:11), so if they were saying God's law was too difficult for them, then we should again go by what God said rather than man, but they were actually taking about the traditions of the fathers being the heavy burden.
 
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Soyeong

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I'd add an additional problem. No one knows how many good works are needed or which ones earn more merit than others. All that church members know, when you get right down to it, is..."do them."

That is precisely why trying to become justified by keeping the law robs our souls peace and perverts the law because the law was given to give rest for our souls (Jeremiah 6:16-19).
 
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Albion

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That is precisely why trying to become justified by keeping the law robs our souls peace and perverts the law because the law was given to give rest for our souls (Jeremiah 6:16-19).
"Keeping the Law" wasn't what I was referring to there, however, nor is that the focus of the people who preach salvation by Faith plus "Works."

These are "Works" of charity, mercy, like the acts referred to by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount.
 
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Soyeong

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Romans 10:10New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10:8-9 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

This is quoting from here:

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

The word of faith that we proclaim is that we can obey the law by faith and when we declare Jesus as Lord, then we will by faith obey his commands, follow his example, and walk in obedience to the law as he did. God raised him from the dead to set us free from sin, so we could be free to not sin in obedience to His law and free to become slaves of obedience (Romans 6:16).
 
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Very true. But that does not translate into good works are necessary for salvation (as some erroneously believe). Here's what James is teaching:

GENUINE FAITH---->GENUINE SALVATION---->GENUINE GOOD WORKS

"DEAD FAITH" ----->NO SALVATION-----> NO GOOD WORKS
Please clarify what you mean, my friend. First you say we are not saved by good works and then you say that we are.

Well, I believe the Bible teaches that God does the work in the believer when they submit to God and His Word. Man cannot take credit for the good work that the Lord does within him. So we are not saved by man directed works but we are saved by God directed works done in our life because one cannot abide in Christ and have no fruit thereof. Granted, we are initially saved by God's grace and mercy when we repent of our sins and accept Him as our savior. Also, a believer who has backslidden into sin, can get right with the Lord by confessing their sin, too. So we are saved by His grace and mercy (indeed), but His mercy is not there for us to think we can sin and still be saved. For His grace is not a license to sin and nor is His grace there for us to be our own masters, either. For Jesus said, "...why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Jesus also said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21). Jesus also said,

"....every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matthew 7:26-27).

Please take note that I believe a license to sin is ANY acknowledgment that one will sin at some point in the future or that one can never stop sinning in this life by God's power. It does not matter if one sins less and less the rest of their life and they are even confessing that sin. If they believe they will always sin, then they are basically telling God that their little bit of upcoming future sin is okay with him. But God cannot condone a person's sin. It doesn't work like that. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it.


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