James says faith without works is dead.

[vinsight4u]

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[disciple1]

God repents of evil /Exodus 32:12
It just means - He stops punishment that was to come, be it
upon Israel, another nation, city, place, etc.

I use the NIV not the KJV
Exodus chapter 32
12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people.

 

[Jack Terrence]

I use the NIV not the KJV
Exodus chapter 32
12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people.

It makes no difference.

 

[JoeP222w]

I have no idea what your saying.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.

My comment was to the Original Post, not yours.

 

[JoeP222w]

Jesus said that if there are no grapes the vine will be cut off.

Yet the vine must exist for there to even be grapes.

 

[Thursday]

Yet the vine must exist for there to even be grapes.

No kidding, but that's not the point. The point is that we can be connected to Christ but if our lives are not in accordance with his will, ie. bearing fruit, we can be cut off.

 

[JoeP222w]

No kidding, but that's not the point. The point is that we can be connected to Christ but if our lives are not in accordance with his will, ie. bearing fruit, we can be cut off.

All those in (abide) Christ will bear fruit. If a person does not bear fruit, that person never was in Christ.

John 15:5-6 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (6) If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

 

[Thursday]

All those in (abide) Christ will bear fruit. If a person does not bear fruit, that person never was in Christ.

John 15:5-6 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (6) If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

That's not what the bible teaches. Abide means remain. If you don't REMAIN in Christ then you will be thrown away.

How do we remain in Christ?

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

 

[Albion]

That's not what the bible teaches. Abide means remain. If you don't REMAIN in Christ then you will be thrown away.

It doesn't presume that the person ever was in Christ, however.

 

[Thursday]

It doesn't presume that the person ever was in Christ, however.

Yes it does. You can't be cut from a vine you are not connected to.

 

[com7fy8]

The vine (faith) does not exist because the grapes (works) exists. The grapes exists because the vine exists.

the vine must exist for there to even be grapes.

The point is that we can be connected to Christ but if our lives are not in accordance with his will, ie. bearing fruit, we can be cut off.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

So, what is the fruit, then, which Jesus wants? I consider that fruit takes time to grow and get ripe. And ripe fruit has a nice fragrance. It is sweet-smelling to God.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So, this is in the quality of the fruit which Jesus means, and therefore is included in being in God's will.

And the branches which produce fruit get pruned. I consider this means how our Father corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-11 < His correction "yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness".

Among other things, I would say, He prunes which way our attention is branching, and we grow where we are going . . . in His love >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

So, we must get rid of whatever is anti-love > "complaining and disputing" (Philippians 2:13-16) > "bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking" and "all malice" (Ephesians 4:31-32) > "the wrath of man" (James 1:19-20) > unforgiveness (Mark 11:25-26) > lusts of the flesh >

"But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Romans 13:14)

So, our works need to include what ministers for us to become like Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

 

[JoeP222w]

And the branches which produce fruit get pruned.

Where does it say this?

Getting corrections from God the Father does not mean you are removed from Him or you lose your salvation.

Among other things, I would say, He prunes which way our attention is branching

I am not sure where you are getting this from the Bible.

So, our works need to include what ministers for us to become like Jesus

Galatians 4:19 my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you!

I don't see anything in that verse that works are what makes us Christ-like. That is an analogy to the anguish and pain of childbirth, not of works. Works follow becoming Christ-like, works do not make us Christ-like. It is a question of order.

 

[com7fy8]

And the branches which produce fruit get pruned.

Where does it say this?

Getting corrections from God the Father does not mean you are removed from Him or you lose your salvation.

You are correct.

I do not mean that fruitful branches get pruned from the vine. I mean they get pruned by our Father so they produce more fruit > John 15:2.

 

[JoeP222w]

That's not what the bible teaches. Abide means remain. If you don't REMAIN in Christ then you will be thrown away.

How do we remain in Christ?

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Continue on, what are His "commands":

John 15:10-12 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. (11) These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. (12) "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

And previously:

John 14:15-21 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (16) And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, (17) even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (18) "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. (19) Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. (20) In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. (21) Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."

John 14:23-24 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (24) Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


Single Bible verses were never meant to be read in isolation. Context matters.

 

[JoeP222w]

You are correct.

I do not mean that fruitful branches get pruned from the vine. I mean they get pruned by our Father so they produce more fruit > John 15:2.

I'm confused. If a branch is pruned, it is not a part of the vine and it is thrown into the fire. That branch that was removed cannot produce fruit. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point.

 

[com7fy8]

Among other things, I would say, He prunes which way our attention is branching

I am not sure where you are getting this from the Bible.

There is more which I have given, along with what you quote, above.

and we grow where we are going . . . in His love >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

I mean that our Father corrects us, by pruning us. Pruning can correct the direction in which a vine is growing, so it does not branch out in the wrong direction.

And if we give our attention to where our attention does not belong, this is where we do grow and go. So, we need how our Father corrects where our attention is going. And our attention, I offer, is in the right place, if our attention is in His love, where He is guiding our attention.

 

[Thursday]

Continue on, what are His "commands":

John 15:10-12 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. (11) These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. (12) "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

And previously:

John 14:15-21 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (16) And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, (17) even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (18) "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. (19) Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. (20) In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. (21) Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."

John 14:23-24 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (24) Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


Single Bible verses were never meant to be read in isolation. Context matters.

How does that change the meaning of my post?

If we don't obey his commands we will not remain in his love.

Are you disagreeing?

 

[com7fy8]

I'm confused. If a branch is pruned, it is not a part of the vine and it is thrown into the fire. That branch that was removed cannot produce fruit. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point.

To prune a branch can mean to cut off the branch, or to cut off parts of the branch. The same word can be used in different ways.

Notice how Jesus says, "every branch that bears fruit He prunes" > in John 15:2. And you already clearly understand that our Father will not cut away a fruitful branch. So, His pruning, here, has to mean He is removing parts of the fruitful branch, so it can produce more fruit, as Jesus does say in this same verse.

And I think His pruning means how He corrects us of whatever is wrong, including our attention going in the wrong direction.

 

[com7fy8]

So, our works need to include what ministers for us to become like Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

Galatians 4:19 my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you!

I don't see anything in that verse that works are what makes us Christ-like. That is an analogy to the anguish and pain of childbirth, not of works. Works follow becoming Christ-like, works do not make us Christ-like. It is a question of order.

Please note that I say works which minister . . . not what we ourselves do. Jesus uses others to minister to us, so we become Christlike. And they do works in their process of being used by God to minister to us. And there is James 5:16 >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

These works of mutual confession and mutual healing prayer can get us "healed" of our sin problems, so we become spiritually more and more "healed" to become like Jesus, I consider and mean.

Also, by the way > if a woman is in labor, there are works which she needs to do in order to help her labor go the right way. And others are doing works to help her. So, yes there are works which are needed. But what works are the works which are done in God's love and leading, how He personally works in us > Philippians 2:13.

 

[JoeP222w]

How does that change the meaning of my post?

If we don't obey his commands we will not remain in his love.

Are you disagreeing?

The sequence matters. You cannot obey God's commands unless He first loves you and then you love Him in return, then you will obey Him. Obedience does not come before Love. If one does the commands of his Master, but does so out of hatred, then one is not obeying the Master, and certainly not out of Love.