James says faith without works is dead.

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe a Christian can have an assurance of their salvation
right here and right now in the present ...
because they know they are doing what they should be doing
re: being a true Christian, a true follower of Jesus Christ.
They have a personal relationship with Father God and Jesus Christ,
which John 17:3 says is absolutely necessary!
They are not habitually sinning.
They are repenting of any sin they are aware of committing.

Agreed. Well said.


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[bcbsr]

James says faith without works is dead.

Discuss.


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James was wrote. He contradicted Paul on this point. See http://bcbsr.com/books/jam_intro.html

 

[Bible Highlighter]

James was wrote. He contradicted Paul on this point. See http://bcbsr.com/books/jam_intro.html

No. James and Paul go together like two sides of the same coin, they don't conflict with each other; they compliment each other. Both teach us something vital. Paul looks at what goes on internally; James talks about the external results. Paul essentially says, "We're saved by God's grace THRU faith." James essentially says, "This is what saving faith looks like."

In other words, works (all by their lonesome) is not what is saving you but it is the proof that Christ is living in you who does the actual saving. For he that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

In addition, check out this short video, too.

Again, works are just the evidence that the Lord lives in you. For Christ (God) does the good work in the believer when they surrender to Him (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5).

In other words, works are the by product of having a true faith (Which is able to access the free saving grace of God that is a gift). For...

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
There are individuals who were able to deny God by their lack of works (Titus 1:16).
We are to prove that Christ is in us by our works (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Jesus essentially says, He that does not what He says is like a man who built his house upon the sand whereby a storm came and blew it down (Whereby great was the fall of it) (Matthew 7:26-27).
Paul essentially says if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing
(1 Timothy 6:3-4). Can a person who is proud and knows nothing be saved?
Without holiness (righteous deeds or works), no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).


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[bcbsr]

I am not sure how you can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. I beg you to re-examine what you believe and look at the following verses by way of prayer. For if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose (because I do not believe in Works Salvationism; I believe in Relationship-ism with God). But if you are wrong, you have everything to lose, my friend. Anyways, here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also seeMatthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/your-handy-dandy-long-list-of-verses-against-osas.83484/


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None of the verses you mentioned refute eternal security. You're simply reading into them what it doesn't say to support your rejection of the gospel.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Thursday]

James was wrote. He contradicted Paul on this point. See http://bcbsr.com/books/jam_intro.html

You are mistaken about what Paul taught:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

 

[com7fy8]

Our Apostle Paul says we need

"faith working through love"

(in Galatians 5:6).

So, we do need faith which is working. And this working needs to be in God's love.

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

So, faith is a package deal thing, of faith which has you in God's love so you are alive in love which has us doing things in God's own love. And 1 Corinthians 13 presents how God's love is.

And the Holy Spirit shares this "love of God" with us, "in our hearts" > Romans 5:5 > making us alive in love so we are working in love. Christian faith has us in this. I do not mean Christian ideas and beliefs, but faith which has us working in God's own love. I personally understand that this means our spiritual connection with God, so each of us is "one spirit with Him" > 1 Corinthians 6:17. In oneness with God, He is making us alive in His own love so we are pleasing to Him like Jesus is (Galatians 4:19), plus doing what He personally leads us to do in this love > Philippians 2:13.

So, this is what truly saves us, I would say . . . how we are together with God Himself in His own love. And Jesus told Paul that Paul would turn Gentiles "from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" > in Acts 26:18. So, if we have been saved, we have been brought together "to God" . . . in faith which is "working through love".

So, getting saved is not only an act of our human free will, but it is the action of God's grace bringing us together with Himself so we become alive in His love and personal leading to do works of His love. And, to me, Colossians 3:15 means we all are "called in one body" to do what our Father rules each of us to do in His own peace. So, this is basic Christianity.

 

[Thursday]

Our Apostle Paul says we need

"faith working through love"

(in Galatians 5:6).

So, we do need faith which is working. And this working needs to be in God's love.

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

So, faith is a package deal thing, of faith which has you in God's love so you are alive in love which has us doing things in God's own love. And 1 Corinthians 13 presents how God's love is.

And the Holy Spirit shares this "love of God" with us, "in our hearts" > Romans 5:5 > making us alive in love so we are working in love. Christian faith has us in this. I do not mean Christian ideas and beliefs, but faith which has us working in God's own love. I personally understand that this means our spiritual connection with God, so each of us is "one spirit with Him" > 1 Corinthians 6:17. In oneness with God, He is making us alive in His own love so we are pleasing to Him like Jesus is (Galatians 4:19), plus doing what He personally leads us to do in this love > Philippians 2:13.

So, this is what truly saves us, I would say . . . how we are together with God Himself in His own love. And Jesus told Paul that Paul would turn Gentiles "from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" > in Acts 26:18. So, if we have been saved, we have been brought together "to God" . . . in faith which is "working through love".

So, getting saved is not only an act of our human free will, but it is the action of God's grace bringing us together with Himself so we become alive in His love and personal leading to do works of His love. And, to me, Colossians 3:15 means we all are "called in one body" to do what our Father rules each of us to do in His own peace. So, this is basic Christianity.

That sounds very Catholic!

 

[com7fy8]

Well, Thursday, the problem for some number of people is what are supposed to be the works of "faith working through love".

So - - - in case there really are works which are essential . . . what are they? and in what way are they essential?

Surely, Paul does not mean religiously copy-catting what others are doing. After all, God is so creative, in each of us >

Paul clearly says,

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

To me, this means our Father personally works in each of us, to get each of us to will and to do whatsoever He wants. And what He has us doing in His own love is essential . . . not only for ourselves, but for others. For one example, our Apostle Paul did many works which God has used in order to reach and save many people. So, we are talking about all-loving works, not only getting what is for our own selves!!!

How can works of God's love be essential, though, for us personally? His love is effecting us, while we do what His love satisfies and guides us to do. And the effect is how we become perfected in His love > "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment" > 1 John 4:17.

So, this does not mean us copy-catting what we think (Proverbs 3:5-6) He wants us to do, but we need to personally submit to how He works and guides our wills and actions. So, what is essential, then, is not only what is done outwardly, but how we are one with God in us > each "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17) < so He is effecting us with the correction of His love's perfection > Hebrews 12:4-11. Without this correction, Hebrews 12:8 says, "you are illegitimate and not sons". So, it is who is working in our works which matters

So, you say that what I am sharing sounds "Catholic". But I am not aware that this is what Catholics commonly understand and support from scripture.

 

[Thursday]

So, you say that what I am sharing sounds "Catholic". But I am not aware that this is what Catholics commonly understand and support from scripture.

Here's the Catholic Catechism section on grace and justification:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

 

[Born Again2004]

I believe that with out works, faith is dead. But, the issue is what works is James referring to?

 

[disciple1]

How are these signs to us?

I'm sorry I don't remember saying that but I did say this.
1 Corinthians chapter 9
9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.”[b] Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.
Jonah chapter 4
11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”
So if God is concerned about people who can't tell their right hand from their left, he's concerned about everyone.

 

[JoeP222w]

The vine (faith) does not exist because the grapes (works) exists. The grapes exists because the vine exists.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[disciple1]

Hi disciple1,

Here is your post - number 130

As Nineveh in the book of Jonah was not a city in Israel but was a sign to Israel and us. So the book of James is a sign to us, not a single verse of the bible is their that doesn't apply to us I'm not saying all the bible has to be obeyed.
I think you don't want to share, but want to keep everything for yourself.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

I don't think that even make sense sorry.

 

[disciple1]

The vine (faith) does not exist because the grapes (works) exists. The grapes exists because the vine exists.

I have no idea what your saying.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Thursday]

The vine (faith) does not exist because the grapes (works) exists. The grapes exists because the vine exists.

Jesus said that if there are no grapes the vine will be cut off.

 

[disciple1]

To me, Jonah has so very much in it for us to apply to our day.

1. Jonah died and then was eaten by the great fish.
He prayed then - about the prayer he had prayed while in
hell and God had heard him.

2. God will repent of evil sometimes.
He will call forth something - like in the time of the seven thunders, but then have mercy.

3. the importance of children and animals in a pagan nation
/those that can't tell their right hand from their left

4. Jonah fled from the presence of the LORD.
This I don't quite understand, since God is everywhere?
Yet, at times, He would come down to see a place.
There are other times in the Bible where it mentions the
presence of the LORD.

5. Jesus Christ told His generation that they would not see
any signs from heaven, only the sign of Jonas.
The end-time generation will see signs both in heaven and on
the earth.

6. Jonah told God that he wished he was dead, since God
would spare Nineveh. Interesting, since Jonah already seemed
to know what being dead entailed.

I think you made a mistake on this like what ever I posted, there's no evil in God, but I'm sure you know that.

God will repent of evil sometimes.

/those that can't tell their right hand from their left

I could say more about not telling the right hand from the left, but we're censored here.