Israel is Mystery Babylon the Great

LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Jipsah The argument about whether Israel or the RCC is the harlot of Babylon reminds me of an old joke. These two blondes came upon some tracks in the woods. First one says, "There are bear tracks!" The second says "No, silly, these are wolf tracks!" They haggled back and forth like that until suddenly they were both run over by a train.
LOL, perf! :thumbsup:
:)
Don't forget about 12 of the Tribes of Israel mentioned in Revelation chapt 7 ;)

Reve 7
1. Y@huwdah = "I will praise Yah"
2. R@'uwben = "He looked on my humliation"
3. Gad = "In raid"
4. 'Asher = "Happy am I"
5. Naphtaliy = "My wrestling"
6. M@nashsheh = "Making me to forget"
7. Shim`own = "He hears me"
8. Leviy = "and obligated me"
9. Yissaskar = "Gave me hire"
10. Z@buwluwn = "a dowry"
11. Yowceph = " he took away my reproach"
12. Binyamiyn = "by Son of His right hand"

......
 
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NumberOneSon

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It is unclear how much detail and history can be discussed on that point without violating the board rules at CF because no matter which way this subject goes - some group is going to be identified with something in the book of Revelation.
It's been talked about plenty of times on this board over the years, so you should be all right.
 
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Aijalon

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johnthewitness...

I disgree with the idea that Isreal is Mystery Babylon on the following grounds:

1.. Jeremiah Chapter 50 specifically names Babylon as the LAND OF THE CHALDEANS (referenced 6 times in chapter), it is a real place tha tis NOT Israel, and even references Nebucadnezar is its founder. Therefore the Babylon of that chapter is no mystery at all. The resettling of the land of Isreal foretold by Jer CH 50 happened under Nehemiah and Ezra. That Babylon is of old, and that area of Iraq was and is truly uninhabited to this day.

2.. Revelation CH 18 describes the final outcome of the punishment of MYSTERY Babylon which is PERMANENT DESTRUCTION which is poured out directly from heaven (Not Gog or Magog). God has always promised to restore Israel, not destroy it, so this is opposite of his promises.

3.. Mystery Babylon is a city AND a whoring woman, meaning a religious group of people who follow God with their lips but idolize objects and themselves. In this vein, Mystery Babylon is not a nation state, but a body of people.

4.. Mystery Babylon is also responsible for perscution of true Christians (Rev , a claim that Israel can't make. Orthodox Judaism has in fact been the object of persecution throughout history, not the perpetrator. The Christian Church on the other hand has killed many in the name of Christ - a direct violation of the teachings of Jesus. (Vengence is the Lord's)

5.. The central city of this group of people (perhaps Vatican City?) is a coastal city (or a series of coastal cities or a city on a major navigable river, as well as an extreemly prosperous city or set of cities) as well as an ancient city, as described by Rev Ch 18. London could also fit the bill as central to the Church of England and world gold trade.

I agree that the current nation of Isreal is not Godly, nor will it be defended by God until it repents, nor is it even a nation of actual Hebrews, but a false nation set up by the Antichrist (as are just about all nations). I may have missed a few proofs or repeated a few already stated, but no, you're wrong.
 
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BobRyan

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Mystery Babylon the Great is an adulterous woman



What does a woman symbolize?

The Two tribal kingdoms, Judah and Israel, as well as God’s true Church are frequently represented as women.


When the Kingdom of Israel or the Kingdom of Judah apostatized it was compared with an adulterous woman


God warns about an adulterous church in Revelation

“
Judaism is an antichrist religion by definition

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. All who deny the Father and the Son are antichrist; so also those who reject the Son cannot have the Father (1 John 2:23.)

The Bible refers to the Nation of Israel as “Judea” in the Bible and not “Israel” as one would assume if this were really the regathering spoken of in prophecy

The above claim is made on the first page of this thread.

I believe there is another entity that fits that bill with much more historic significance.

But I have been formally informed that it is not allowed to discuss the alternative to the POV on the first page of this thread.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Manasseh_

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Israel cannot be Babylon the harlot............

Scripture prophesies that God will save Israel out of the great tribulation
scripture also foretells that God will utterly destroy Babylon

so God is going to both save and destroy babylon ?

as we can see this would make no sense at all.............God is not a God of confusion
 
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BobRyan

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Below - we find a somewhat reliable presentation (though this is not the quote in its vast entirety) of a classic Catholic interpretation of the symbols Rev 12, 17 and 18.

Mystery Babylon the Great is an adulterous woman



What does a woman symbolize?

The Two tribal kingdoms, Judah and Israel, as well as God’s true Church are frequently represented as women.


When the Kingdom of Israel or the Kingdom of Judah apostatized it was compared with an adulterous woman


God warns about an adulterous church in Revelation

“
Judaism is an antichrist religion by definition

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. All who deny the Father and the Son are antichrist; so also those who reject the Son cannot have the Father (1 John 2:23.)

The Bible refers to the Nation of Israel as “Judea” in the Bible and not “Israel” as one would assume if this were really the regathering spoken of in prophecy

As it turns out one or two people on this board are not Catholics and some even hold to the classic Protestant understanding of those chapters.

An understanding that would be a board violation of rules to even post - so I will not state what it is in this post -- I simply point to the fact of its existence hoping that admitting that the Protestant view "exists" is not also a violation of these board rules.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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dana b

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Israel cannot be Babylon the harlot............

Scripture prophesies that God will save Israel out of the great tribulation
scripture also foretells that God will utterly destroy Babylon

so God is going to both save and destroy babylon ?

as we can see this would make no sense at all.............God is not a God of confusion


It's because the beast and the woman with son come out of the same place. Even good and evil come out of the same place. They come out and are manifest on this earth by human beings. Israel throughout history has both been God's favorite and also at times played the harlot. It has been the same with Jesus's European Christian Israel. The Christian nations both made great advances in modernization and Society but also used their inventions to made grave mistakes. This is also the story theme of the Holy Bible. Even the Continents are shaped by God to show the four beasts of Daniel and Revelation. These four beasts are also correspondent to the four king sons of Israel.(Judah, Dan, Joseph and Benjamin)

ChapterTwentyTwo%20(6).jpg
 
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SeraphimsCherub

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Yeah...it makes sense that political{Israel=British Zionism}which the Rothchild's created. Could be that mystery part of Babylon that John marveled over. Because once the United States is distroyed. The family whom GOD used to bring the world the Bible{KJV}under Royal Leters Patent striaght from the Queens printer{the very first one ever}, Satan is going to use to bring the world his anti-Christ. They will move their throne from Great Britain{The Red Dragon} to Jerusalem. Where they will comment the Abomination of desolation!
 
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NGC 6712

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We'll leave the Spirit of "Revelation" in the Hand's Of GOD,and dead theology in the hands of men where it belongs.
I was referring to plain old facts not scriptural interpretations. And facts seem to get mangled or outright discarded on this board.
 
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SeraphimsCherub

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I was referring to plain old facts not scriptural interpretations. And facts seem to get mangled or outright discarded on this board.
Hey brother....and GOD bless ya. Sorry if i came off offensive. But i do know that if i search for historical facts myself,or just plain old facts in- general. Instead of relying on,or believing in the Satanic{The Prince Of The Power Of "The Air"} Media for them. Not saying that you do;but just saying.
 
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BobRyan

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Below - we find a somewhat reliable presentation (though this is not the quote in its vast entirety) of a classic Catholic interpretation of the symbols Rev 12, 17 and 18.

Mystery Babylon the Great is an adulterous woman



What does a woman symbolize?

The Two tribal kingdoms, Judah and Israel, as well as God’s true Church are frequently represented as women.


When the Kingdom of Israel or the Kingdom of Judah apostatized it was compared with an adulterous woman


God warns about an adulterous church in Revelation

“
Judaism is an antichrist religion by definition

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. All who deny the Father and the Son are antichrist; so also those who reject the Son cannot have the Father (1 John 2:23.)

The Bible refers to the Nation of Israel as “Judea” in the Bible and not “Israel” as one would assume if this were really the regathering spoken of in prophecy

As it turns out one or two people on this board are not Catholics and some even hold to the classic Protestant understanding of those chapters.

An Protestant understanding that would be a board violation of rules to even post on this thread - so I will not state what it is in this post -- I simply point to the fact of its existence hoping that admitting that the Protestant view "exists" is not also a violation of these board rules.


---=====================

As it turns out - the following thread discusses the classic Protestant view and apparently that option is allowed - as long as one is posting on that thread and not this one.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7652494/

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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The woman of Rev 12 is the pure church of God - in both OT and NT ages. As we see the woman gives birth to the child (the one true church of God prior to the birth of Christ) and the woman flees into the wilderness after Christ is taken up to heaven - so again - it is the pure church of God "The persecuted church" after Christ was risen from the dead.

Romans 11 makes a big point about showing how in both ages the saints are all in one body as God's true church in both OT and NT ages.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Douggg

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The woman of Rev 12 is the pure church of God - in both OT and NT ages. As we see the woman gives birth to the child (the one true church of God prior to the birth of Christ) and the woman flees into the wilderness after Christ is taken up to heaven - so again - it is the pure church of God "The persecuted church" after Christ was risen from the dead.

Romans 11 makes a big point about showing how in both ages the saints are all in one body as God's true church in both OT and NT ages.

in Christ,

Bob

You have been listening to too much Doug Batchler....;). There is no such thing as an old testament church because the church is based upon the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Doug (the other Doug)
 
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Douggg

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There are two religions of men that blatantly disregard Christ’s teaching regarding being called Rabbi and Father, Judaism and Catholicism. This is quite the opposite of being humble, but rather proud, arrogant and deceitful.

Well you hit the target on that one.

Doug
 
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Douggg

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THE NATION OF iSRAEL IS NOT THE SECOND GATHERING (NOR ARE THEY THE CHOSEN ONES, MOST CHRISTIANS HAVE A MAJOR IDENTITY CRISIS AND HAVE BEEN LED ASTRAY BY THE JUDAIZERS WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE THE CHOSEN ONES) THE VERSES BELOW SPEAK OF THE REAL GATHERING OF ISRAEL ALL BELIEVERS IN JESUS

Well, the Jews who at the current time reject Jesus, will be believers in Jesus when Jesus, at his Second Coming, sends the angels to gather them from around the world to the land of Israel.

Doug
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by johnalexander THE NATION OF iSRAEL IS NOT THE SECOND GATHERING (NOR ARE THEY THE CHOSEN ONES, MOST CHRISTIANS HAVE A MAJOR IDENTITY CRISIS AND HAVE BEEN LED ASTRAY BY THE JUDAIZERS WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE THE CHOSEN ONES) THE VERSES BELOW SPEAK OF THE REAL GATHERING OF ISRAEL ALL BELIEVERS IN JESUS
Well, the Jews who at the current time reject Jesus, will be believers in Jesus when Jesus, at his Second Coming, sends the angels to gather them from around the world to the land of Israel.

Doug
What if a lot of them do not want to go to Israel? ;)

Deut 28:
66 "and becomes lives of thee being hung to thee from in front of, and thou art afraid night and by day, and not thou be sure in lives of thee.
67 In morning thou sayest 'who shall give evening' and in evening thou shalt say 'who shall give morning'.
From awe of heart of thee which thou shalt fear and from the sight of eyes of thee which thou shalt see"
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,................

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins...........









.
 
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