Israel goes full Moloch

Biblewriter

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It is possible to prove absolutely anything from the Bible if you simply assume that the words on the page do not mean what they actually say. But if you assume that they actually mean what they explicitly say, you are absolutely forced to accept futurism.
 
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Berean777

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yes this is speaking about the new covenant whereby israel will be judged, the old covenant dissolved, gentiles will be accepted as priests (priesthood is no longer exclusively levitical) of god as per hosea 1:10, 2:23, 1 peter 2:9-10 , colossians 3:11, ephesians 3:1-6 and that it will be during a time of evangelism!

It most certainly has to be tied to the Great Commission, because scripture cannot be broken, that is.......

Acts 2:14-18
Peter Addresses the Crowd

14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

18Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy/preach.

19
I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke.

What are they prophesying about? It is about preaching the everlasting gospel within the Great Commission context. Daughter Zion is the 1st century church that Peter addresses, by associating it with the prophesy in Joel, where God pours out his Spirit and then Daughter Zion (Jewish Church) starts to prophesy, meaning to preach the gospel as far as the Great Commission is concerned, to the Gentiles, during a time of evangelism. This is the 1st hour rallying call. There will also in the future be an 11th hour rallying call that will unite the Christian world as one flock and under one shepherd, that is described by Joel as the Latter Rain, whereby the Sons of Jacob will come on board to carry the burden of the day, in similar way to to their counterpart Jewish brothers and sisters of the 1st century church.

So as to your statement.....

Are we going to pretend that the Lord has already judged all flesh "by fire and by His sword," killing "many"? Isaiah 66:15-16

The fire that comes from their mouths devours their enemies (Revelation 11:5). The fire is the Holy that they pour out anytime they want to, as the symbol of the two witnesses whenever they preach the Word, that is the Lord's sword that penetrates the heart of the enemy, who by their own free will, yield to Christ's authority and join the Great Commission ranks.

The Great Commission is the assimilation of nations to Christ, through peaceful and diplomatic means and by doing so, these once enemies are killed spiritually speaking, because they yield to Christ and are assimilated within Christ's body of believers. The saying is resistance is futile!

This is the Christ collective!


Now the question arises as to whether God clobbers his enemies or does he convince them to let down their arms and to come as prisoners of Christ?

Paul would say the world will become prisoners of Christ, through the very preaching of the Sword of God's word, the everlasting gospel.

People considering physical weapons that God uses to destroy the enemy, is a primitive concept that is divorced of God's ways, especially after the cross. After the cross God makes diplomacy with the world and never over rides the Great Commission prerogative. After all why did the Holy Ghost tell Peter to get up and go to Cornelius house, when Peter wanted nothing to do with the Gentiles? Obviously God did NOT override Peter, but rather had swayed him to pour out fire on the once enemies of the gospel, by the sword of the word, that brought Cornelius and his household as willful prisoners of Christ.

God will never abandon the Great Commission or to bypass his witnesses who hold the testimony of Jesus, by resorting to power intervention that will be counter intuitive and counterproductive to the Great Commission calling to Christ through peaceful means. The spiritual war is for the hearts and minds of enemies and not to kill their flesh or to force them into bondage unwillingly.
 
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Berean777

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It is possible to prove absolutely anything from the Bible if you simply assume that the words on the page do not mean what they actually say. But if you assume that they actually mean what they explicitly say, you are absolutely forced to accept futurism.

Sometimes when a word is accepted on face value, that is absolutely forced without taking into consideration the context and the character of God (Prince of Peace), what we end up doing is, to turn what is a spiritual war for the hearts and minds of people into a physical war, with physical weapons, with the central focus of destroying the flesh, taking people forcibly into bondage, raping and pillaging. This absolute forcible interpretation of the text, is divorced of winning people (once enemies) over to Christ as his disciples. This thinking is not only counter intuitive and counter productive to Christ and the great commission context of preaching the gospel of peace, but it is destructive to the faith once given to the 1st century Jewish saints.

After the cross of Christ, God doesn't wield a physical sword upon the enemy, because since pouring the precious blood of his only begotten Son, he reached out his hand to the whole world to make peace through his Son and if he breaks with this blood covenant of peace, he makes his Son's covenant void and this very act would be out of character as far as God is concerned. Therefore God will not intervene as he had done in the Old Testament times, when there was no peace agreement and the four Horses of the Apocalypse was the state of those days. What must happen for God to wage physical war on humanity, is if the Great Commission is called off all together and the blood covenant done away with. Since you have people who represent him on earth, the peace terms of the contract is obligatory to God and God needs to abide by his own covenant after all, it is made with the precious blood of his only begotten Son.

Let us say that the world made war with Christianity and started killing them off and there was a real and present threat and that the Gospel has no chance of ever spreading again, then God will step in because humanity would have defaulted on the peace agreement and then and only then will God act forcibly. However today we see the gospel prospering in the African, Chinese and Indian nations and this is a sign that the gospel is finding its way and is not being threatened. So evidence shows that here is not going to be direct intervention from God, unless God deems the contract void by the acts of humanity. After all it is his call. Since you do not know the thoughts of God, your future guess work is counterproductive to the great commission prerogative. I urge you to let go of this type of destructive theology.
 
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Are we going to pretend that the LORD has "come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire"? Are we going to pretend that the Lord has already judged all flesh "by fire and by His sword," killing "many"? Isaiah 66:15-16

isaiah 19:1-4
isaiah 24:17-23
ezekiel 32:7-11
micah 1:1-7
joel 2:1-11
 
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random person

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As usual, more meaningless Bible quotes with no explanations. If you're going to quote scripture, at least tell us why and what it represents in this discussion.

It is because most of the time I do not have a proper internet connection and have to type my posts by cursor and onscreen keyboard... as for my previous post you commented on try reading them in order and find the linking common theme to each verse in relation to the prior verse and next verse in the chain.

Well read these they are perfect examples of apocalyptic language:

Isaiah 19:1-4 describes Yahweh riding on a cloud into Egypt the world shakes and the idols melt yet what does in say in verse 4 Egypt will be conquered and given over to a cruel and fierce king of Babylon?

Isaiah 24:17-23 describes the destruction of the earth especially in verse 19 and yet look at verse 23, Jerusalem and Mount Zion are still standing?

Ezekiel 32:7-11 describes the universal dissolution yet how does it conclude with verse 11 Egypt is conquered by Babylon?

Micah 1:1-7 describes the judgment on Samaria via the Assyrians in the 8th century BC yet it also describes mountains melting and cleft into valleys in verses verses 3-4 for the sins and transgressions of Jacob?

Joel 1:1-17 describes the dissolution of the universe in verses 2-3 and verse 10 but simultaneously it describes an invasion of foreign armies in verses 4-9 and verse 11?

Please properly read apocalyptic language from the Old Testament and it will interpret the apocalyptic language of the New Testament as found in Revelation and the Olivet Discourse.

What about Psalms 18, David describes all these natural disasters like mountains and hills being shaken and moved, hail stones and coals of fire, floods and seas moved as God rides his cherubs while smoke issues from his nostrils and he breathes fire, but what is the subject of Psalms 18? God delivered David from Saul. Did these things truly transpire while David was delivered from Saul?

If you read Isaiah 65 and 66, you will notice that, before God creates the new heavens and a new earth, God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin (65:7); he would destroy them (65:8-15; 66:3-6,15-18,24); create a new people with a new name (65:15-16); then create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem (65:17-19). When God created the new heavens and earth, notice that physical death will remain (Isa. 65:20, 66:24), home construction and agriculture will continue (Isa. 65:21-22), we will have descendants (Isa. 65:23, 66:22), the Lord will hear their prayers (Isa. 65:24), there will still be sin (Isa. 65:20, Mat.12:32, Rev.22:15 ), and it is depicted as a time of evangelism when the Jew and Gentile will be brought together under the banner of God (66:19). The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers. The Kingdom of God is made without hands (spiritual - Dan. 2:34, 44-45; c.f. Col. 2:10-11). If we take the statements from the scriptures at face value, then we should conclude that the first heavens and the first earth passed away and was replaced by the glorious reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, the kingdom without end. Notice that in this New Heaven and Earth, righteousness dwells, as it does in the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:9).
 
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Did anyone mention the star of Moloch / Remphan?

The image of the Star of Moloch/Remphan is identical to the star of David found on the Israeli flag and the symbol representing Judaism.
 
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Another excellent example of apocalyptic language is found in Revelation 6:12-17, it describes a great earthquake, the sun turning black, the moon turning blood red, the stars of heaven falling to earth like figs, heaven rolled up like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of its place in verses 12-14 yet also describes people hiding in the mountains and dens in verses 15-17. Do you where else this verse is found? It is found in Luke 23:28-31 while Christ is prophecying against Jerusalem and its destruction in 70 A.D.
 
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Hieronymus

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The image of the Star of Moloch/Remphan is identical to the star of David found on the Israeli flag and the symbol representing Judaism.
Well, it has nothing to do with David.
It does have something to do with Solomon though.
1 Kings 11:5

See also "seal of Solomon"

See also Amos 5:26
 
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Well, it has nothing to do with David.
It does have something to do with Solomon.
1 Kings 11:5

It speaks about this in Amos 5:26 and Acts of the apostles 7:43. Judaism and the state of Israel call it the star or shield of David however.
 
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BABerean2

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I know....
It's baffling...

Many modern Christians seem to believe the majority of those in the modern nation of Israel have turned back to God and have accepted what is written in the Old Testament, as the truth.

Many also act as if the modern descendants of Jacob are somehow still under the Old Covenant.

It would not be unusual for some to invite a rabbi to speak at their Church.


Marching to Zion
 
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Christian Zionism.
Christians for Pharisees.
Crazy...
People should be aware of what the Talmud teaches, especially about the 'goyim' and of course about Christ.

the great city - jeremiah 22:6-9 & revelation 11:8 (c.f. revelation 21:10)

the harlot - jeremiah 31:32; jeremiah 3:8-14; isaiah 50:1; revelation 18:7; revelation 18:23; ezekiel 16 (c.f. revelation 19:7-9)

7 mountains - mt zion, mt ophel, mt moriah, mt bezetha, mt acra, mt gareb, mt goath
 
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As usual, more meaningless Bible quotes with no explanations. If you're going to quote scripture, at least tell us why and what it represents in this discussion.

another great example of apocalyptic language is found in daniel 8:10 where the destruction of the jews by antiochus epiphanes is represented as casting down some of the host of heaven and the stars to the ground.
 
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random person,

Once again, you have posted a string of verses that seem to be meaningless in anything pertinent to the discussion. What exactly are you trying to say, preferably in some detail?

well run your cursor over the verses or open your bible

who fits the description of the harlot in these verses better ... mecca? ... rome? ... jerusalem?

now look at revelation 18:20 ... it says "prophets" and whom else???
 
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