Israel goes full Moloch

[random person]

Boxer, I believe that there are other scriptures that say, that God will restore them to their land, give them a new covenant, rule over them with a rod of iron, purge out the rebels, etc., they are his chosen people, He will never cast them away permanently, gather them from the four corners of the earth. I don't believe it is permanent.

give me any scriptural examples where the promises to israel are divorced from the old covenant with israel?

god already restored them to the land, god already gave them a new everlasting covenant hebrews 13:20, christ already received the rod of iron from the father revelation 2:27, god already has a chosen people hosea 1:10, hosea 2:23, & 1 peter 2:9-10.

 

[Biblewriter]

give me any scriptural examples where the promises to israel are divorced from the old covenant with israel?

god already restored them to the land, god already gave them a new everlasting covenant hebrews 13:20, christ already received the rod of iron from the father revelation 2:27, god already has a chosen people hosea 1:10, hosea 2:23, & 1 peter 2:9-10.

10 "And it shall be, when you show this people all these words, and they say to you, 'Why has the LORD pronounced all this great disaster against us? Or what is our iniquity? Or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?' 11 then you shall say to them, 'Because your fathers have forsaken Me,' says the LORD; 'they have walked after other gods and have served them and worshiped them, and have forsaken Me and not kept My law. 12 And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me. 13 Therefore I will cast you out of this land into a land that you do not know, neither you nor your fathers; and there you shall serve other gods day and night, where I will not show you favor.' 14 "Therefore behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that it shall no more be said, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,' 15 but, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.' For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers. 16 "Behold, I will send for many fishermen," says the LORD, "and they shall fish them; and afterward I will send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17 For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity hidden from My eyes. 18 And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols." Jeremiah 16:10-18

Here we see, in one short passage, the rejection of Israel for its sins and its subsequent restoration, but not until after they had paid double for their sins.


In this passage, God explicitly rejected the people because of their sins. Yet at the very time He announced his rejection of them, He promised a day in which He would again receive them. And He went on to explicitly say that "Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head."

 

[Jack Terrence]

Boxer, I believe that there are other scriptures that say, that God will restore them to their land, give them a new covenant, rule over them with a rod of iron, purge out the rebels, etc., they are his chosen people, He will never cast them away permanently, gather them from the four corners of the earth. I don't believe it is permanent.

Yet Jesus said that their house (family) would be left "DESOLATE." God sent the Romans to level their city and to destroy all their archives which contained their genealogical records. This left them without any legal claim or inheritance. This is why they were so meticulous in keeping genealogical records, for without proof of descent they had no rights.

Then God scattered them among all the Gentile nations just as Jesus foretold and they intermarried with the Gentiles. Over the course of centuries they totally lost their racial distinctiveness. Their family became "desolate" just as Jesus said. This means that we ALL descend from Israel to some degree. But none of us can prove it genealogically. So, faith in Christ is now our legal claim.


The scripture says NOTHING about a regathering of Israel from the four corners of the earth. It speaks only of the remnant being saved from the four corners of the land. The Greek word 'ge' means 'land.' The 'land' in view was ancient Israel. The remnant of the ancient land of Israel was gathered into salvation in Paul's time (Romans 11:5-6). After the final remnant was saved God judged Israel as I have described above.

 

[MWood]

Thanks Boxer.

 

[brinny]

Praying.

 

[Berean777]

give me any scriptural examples where the promises to israel are divorced from the old covenant with israel?

god already restored them to the land, god already gave them a new everlasting covenant hebrews 13:20, christ already received the rod of iron from the father revelation 2:27, god already has a chosen people hosea 1:10, hosea 2:23, & 1 peter 2:9-10.

Exactly, everything is tied to the new covenant that God the Father makes with the Israel of God, through his only begotten Son, who is the Seed of promise that delivered God's promise to all of humanity who would embrace the Son. Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world (Ephesians 2:12).

If we deny that all the promises of God are tied to his only begotten Son, then people might as well not quote any scripture, because everything that they will quote is a denial of the cross of our salvation. If one says that a promise exists outside of the adoption through the Son of promise, then we have another gospel that denigrates the Son and proclaims that the Father made promises outside of his Son. So who on earth would say that God the Father has done the unthinkable, especially after his Son died to renew and to reconcile man to him. The Father would certainly cut off any thing and anyone that is outside of the adoption, through his only begotten Son. Therefore we testify truthfully when we say that God the Father did fulfill all promises of the Old Testament through his only begotten Son. Anything else falls short of the glory of God and denigrates the Son as secondary to the promise . Who is the one to separate the one way and the one plan and the one promise of God and continues to declare that a promise is owing to disbelievers outside of the one and only blood covenant of his Son. To even think that there is a promise owing to the unbelieving Sons of Jacob, is heresy and what more can we say, Hmmmm...........

This is the argument that many advocates of a promise owing to a people outside of the cross of Christ are saying, that......

Regardless of what the Son did for all of humanity......
Regardless of what the Son did to reconcile man to God......
Regardless of whether Jews believe in the Son or not.......

That the Jews are still owed a promise from God outside of the blood covenant that had been instrumental for converting the whole world to the Father. This alternate speculative doctrine is absolute lunacy.

Scripture states.....

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psalm 2:12)

Jesus said........

For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes (Matthew 23:39)

So those who advocate a promise that is owed to the Jews from the cross onwards, regardless of their belief in the Son, must stop quoting Old Testament scriptures. Many countless unbelieving Jews throughout the centuries have died without kissing the Son and in this regard they have recieved the promise of destruction in the fires of hell. So let us preach to this generation that unless they kiss the Son, they will never see God and have no claim to the promises of God.

It is our duty to tell them the truth and not what they want to hear.

 

[random person]

10 "And it shall be, when you show this people all these words, and they say to you, 'Why has the LORD pronounced all this great disaster against us? Or what is our iniquity? Or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?' 11 then you shall say to them, 'Because your fathers have forsaken Me,' says the LORD; 'they have walked after other gods and have served them and worshiped them, and have forsaken Me and not kept My law. 12 And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me. 13 Therefore I will cast you out of this land into a land that you do not know, neither you nor your fathers; and there you shall serve other gods day and night, where I will not show you favor.' 14 "Therefore behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that it shall no more be said, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,' 15 but, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.' For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers. 16 "Behold, I will send for many fishermen," says the LORD, "and they shall fish them; and afterward I will send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17 For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity hidden from My eyes. 18 And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols." Jeremiah 16:10-18

Here we see, in one short passage, the rejection of Israel for its sins and its subsequent restoration, but not until after they had paid double for their sins.


In this passage, God explicitly rejected the people because of their sins. Yet at the very time He announced his rejection of them, He promised a day in which He would again receive them. And He went on to explicitly say that "Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head."

the elect israel has been gathered and is being gathered by christ their head.

 

[ac28]

As of Acts 28:28, Israel is temporarily "not My people" (Lo-ammi) in the eyes of God. They will be again when they go through the week of Jacob's trouble. The church today is a 100% gentile church. Jews today are no different than Gentiles in God's eyes.

 

[Berean777]

As of Acts 28:28, Israel is temporarily "not My people" (Lo-ammi) in the eyes of God. They will be again when they go through the week of Jacob's trouble. The church today is a 100% gentile church. Jews today are no different than Gentiles in God's eyes.

The Churh is not 100% gentile. It still consists of sons of Jacob who have kissed the Son. However there will be a time where they will come as the 11th hour workmen, along with the Chinese who are coming to Christ in droves.

As the saying goes resistance is futile!

All the world will be made his footstool.

 

[Biblewriter]

the elect israel has been gathered and is being gathered by christ their head.

10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem, And be glad with her, all you who love her; Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 That you may feed and be satisfied With the consolation of her bosom, That you may drink deeply and be delighted With the abundance of her glory." 12 For thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; On her sides shall you be carried, And be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, So I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem." 14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice, And your bones shall flourish like grass; The hand of the LORD shall be known to His servants, And His indignation to His enemies. 15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD. 18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:10-21

 

[Berean777]

10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem, And be glad with her, all you who love her; Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 That you may feed and be satisfied With the consolation of her bosom, That you may drink deeply and be delighted With the abundance of her glory." 12 For thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; On her sides shall you be carried, And be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, So I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem." 14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice, And your bones shall flourish like grass; The hand of the LORD shall be known to His servants, And His indignation to His enemies. 15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD. 18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:10-21

Who is saying that God didn't do just that after the cross of Christ. After all from the Jewish apostles Christianity of the 1st century chuch has become what it is today. Therefore Christianity has been rejoicing with her for the last 2000 years and counting, by saying Hallelujah blessed is he who came in the name of the Lord.

Are we to deny the prophesy that was fulfilled and is still alive today, just as it was in the day of the 1st century Jewish daughter Zion (church). Therefore we rejoice today with them, as if we too are there with them, carrying the legacy which is alive and well, Hallelujah.

 

[Biblewriter]

Who is saying that God didn't do just that after the cross of Christ. After all from the Jewish apostles Christianity of the 1st century chuch has become what it is today. Therefore Christianity has been rejoicing with her for the last 2000 years and counting, by saying Hallelujah blessed is he who came in the name of the Lord.

Are we to deny the prophesy that was fulfilled and is still alive today, just as it was in the day of the 1st century Jewish daughter Zion (church). Therefore we rejoice today with them, as if we too are there with them, carrying the legacy which is alive and well, Hallelujah.

Are we going to pretend that the LORD has "come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire"? Are we going to pretend that the Lord has already judged all flesh "by fire and by His sword," killing "many"? Isaiah 66:15-16

 

[Berean777]

Are we going to pretend that the LORD has "come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire"? Are we going to pretend that the Lord has already judged all flesh "by fire and by His sword," killing "many"? Isaiah 66:15-16

No, Isaiah is pointing to a different context of situation than what you are projecting into the future. Isaiah spiritually points to Christ's 1st advent and after the cross context, remember the sign of Jonah.

The Lord is not waging a physical war with instruments of death, rather the war he wages is a spiritual war (ephesians), one that judges all flesh ands carnal ways of this world, by the fire of his Spirit (Holy Ghost) in the Great commission and by the sword of his Word through the preaching of his gospel, he conquers the enemies by winning over their hearts and minds.

Your take on God is completely different to the apostles of Christ. Don't you realise when an apostle smote the ear of the centurion, that Jesus rebuked him for doing so, and said........

Matthew 26
52“Put your sword back in its place,”Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

God doesn't conquer flesh through physical weapons like the Alah of the Muslims, God conquers his enemies through the fire of his Spirit and the Sword of his Word that has been for the last 2000 years been poured on the enemy, by those witnesses who hold the testimony of Jesus Christ and are part of the Great Commission to preach the gospel. God does NOT overide the great commission of his Son's witnesses by clobbering the enemy to death, rather the war that God wages is for the hearts and minds of people, who are being compelled in their conviction, to yield to he power of Christ peacefully and by their own FREE WILL. Paul was one of them, Constantine was another FIGURE amongst the countless figures throughout the last 2000 years.

Please at least have this basic fundamental part of Christianity understood. You havea completely different context of situation friend.

 

[Winken]

.....along with the Chinese who are coming to Christ in droves.

Yes, but which Christ? Heretical interpretations of scripture abound, including one that says Jesus is already here, physically.

 

[Berean777]

Yes, but which Christ? Heretical interpretations of scripture abound, including one that says Jesus is already here, physically.

At the moment the name of Jesus is destroying empires and bringing down communistic atheistic idelogies. Then when the last hour comes, the numerous scattered sheep will be brought together as one flock under one name. How this is done, I lave it to God, but I wouldn't oppose those movements if I were you or others, because Christianity is a religion of dialogue, after all how did the Eastern religions survive amongt the enemies that surrounded them like the muslims and mongols. How did they establish a base in China, during the most powerful dynasty in China,the Tang dynasty.

Let it go, let tge force of God overpower the enemy. At a time that Europe has strayed, China and India will be the superpowers who will rule the world because of this movement to Jesus. Watch it happen. Constantine neversaw it coming, he was conquered by Christ.

Let th good times come.

 

[Winken]

At the moment the name of Jesus is destroying empires and bringing down communistic atheistic idelogies. Then when the last hour comes, the numerous scattered sheep will be brought together as one flock under one name. How this is done, I lave it to God, but I wouldn't oppose those movements if I were you or others, because Christianity is a religion of dialogue, after all how did the Eastern religions survive amongt the enemies that surrounded them like the muslims and mongols. How did they establish a base in China, during the most powerful dynasty in China,the Tang dynasty.

Let it go, let tge force of God overpower the enemy. At a time that Europe has strayed, China and India will be the superpowers who will rule the world because of this movement to Jesus. Watch it happen. Constantine neversaw it coming, he was conquered by Christ.

Let th good times come.

I'm sure you are aware of the counterfeit trinity that will reveal itself during the Great Tribulation.

 

[random person]

10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem, And be glad with her, all you who love her; Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 That you may feed and be satisfied With the consolation of her bosom, That you may drink deeply and be delighted With the abundance of her glory." 12 For thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; On her sides shall you be carried, And be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, So I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem." 14 When you see this, your heart shall rejoice, And your bones shall flourish like grass; The hand of the LORD shall be known to His servants, And His indignation to His enemies. 15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD. 18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:10-21

yes this is speaking about the new covenant whereby israel will be judged, the old covenant dissolved, gentiles will be accepted as priests (priesthood is no longer exclusively levitical) of god as per hosea 1:10, 2:23, 1 peter 2:9-10 , colossians 3:11, ephesians 3:1-6 and that it will be during a time of evangelism!

 

[random person]

Are we going to pretend that the LORD has "come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire"? Are we going to pretend that the Lord has already judged all flesh "by fire and by His sword," killing "many"? Isaiah 66:15-16

in the wake of the old covenant being dissolved in 70 a.d. people could look upon carcasses of israel (romans gave the inhabitants of jerusalem an open mass burial in gehenna) but the name and the seed of christianity shall remain eternally (isaiah 9:7, ephesians 3:21). gehenna aka the valley of hinnom was a massive garbage dump in the 1st century where fires always burned and maggots were so evidently abundant they appeared to never die little did people know back then they metamorphisized into flies that would constantly breed and relaid more larvae.

isaiah 66:22-24

 

[Berean777]

I'm sure you are aware of the counterfeit trinity that will reveal itself during the Great Tribulation.

Yes I understand, that is why the rallying call will be behind the Son's of Jacob, who come on board as the 11th hour workmen and take up the burden of the day as far as the great commission is concerned. This is how we will know the true trinity movement.

 

[random person]

10 "And it shall be, when you show this people all these words, and they say to you, 'Why has the LORD pronounced all this great disaster against us? Or what is our iniquity? Or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?' 11 then you shall say to them, 'Because your fathers have forsaken Me,' says the LORD; 'they have walked after other gods and have served them and worshiped them, and have forsaken Me and not kept My law. 12 And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me. 13 Therefore I will cast you out of this land into a land that you do not know, neither you nor your fathers; and there you shall serve other gods day and night, where I will not show you favor.' 14 "Therefore behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that it shall no more be said, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,' 15 but, 'The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.' For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers. 16 "Behold, I will send for many fishermen," says the LORD, "and they shall fish them; and afterward I will send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. 17 For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity hidden from My eyes. 18 And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols." Jeremiah 16:10-18

Here we see, in one short passage, the rejection of Israel for its sins and its subsequent restoration, but not until after they had paid double for their sins.


In this passage, God explicitly rejected the people because of their sins. Yet at the very time He announced his rejection of them, He promised a day in which He would again receive them. And He went on to explicitly say that "Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head."

you left out the regathering occurs at the time of the conversion of the gentiles jeremiah 16:19-21

they are regathered to christ!