Islam:Peaceful and Tolerant?

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
... You've compiled a list of some of prejudices that have
accumulated over centuries. and are also simplistic in my view.
No, not a list of prejudices or even legends. They are facts.
They may seem simplistic to you but that's irrelevant.

Your last remark I find particularly offensive and unfair.
So do I. Having sex with children is definitely offensive but
Mohammad did. Aisha was nine.

Imam says it's okay - video
Mohammad - sex with children
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,540.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
Christians are violent?

[snipped]

Hello, there, no true Scotsman.

No, we all PM each other. :) I'm just tellin; ya.
I can almost guarantee that the Muslims here would not talk badly about me behind my back just as I would not talk badly about them behind their backs.

As for the rest of the people here, maybe you are in contact with all of them, maybe not (I'm leaning towards the latter). Frankly, I don't care.

Never said that.
You: Right. You could be guilty of war crimes though.

I've never seen any of this.
Exactly, but Muslims have seen this happen to us.

Airport story by a Hindu mistaken for Muslim, 2 Muslim Men Kicked Off Flight, Muslim Woman also kicked off

NYPD Muslim spying operation, Muslim student monitored by the NYPD, More about it here

Training for NYPD: watch anti-Muslim video

Tarek Mehanna - 17 years for what comes down to freedom of speech

I read that before I posted. Hence, I posted that Mohammed never got anything right. Most of those are explainable by common sense, mere human conjecture etc. In fact I wasn't impressed at all.

Put it this way- compared to real prophets like Ezekiel, Isaiah, Joel, John and most of all Jesus, he's really not a prophet at all.

Uh huh. Shifting the goal posts now.

Some people are never satisfied.

And even if We had sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) a Message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said: "This is nothing but obvious magic!" (Al-An'am 6:7)

Most of those quotes are either ancient or out of context. Ask today. Look at the countries people are trying to leave.
They're relevant because they're referring to periods of time when Islaam was actually the law of the land (much more than it is in any country today) - and it wasn't just a lip service.

Can I build a church in Saudi Arabia? If not, how can my religion "prosper"?
No, since no two religions can exist in the Arabian peninsula. The last remaining disbelieving tribes were allowed to stay there since the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a treaty with them. Abu Bakr extended this treaty as did, I believe, 'Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them). But then the tribes violated the treaty, so 'Umar had them removed. He gave them land elsewhere in the Muslim land.

Give it a try. Leave the evil West. Stop using and enjoying all the benefits of Western freedom and democracy. Go to some Muslim country. You won't look so hypocritical there.
Why? Because I won't stop criticizing the government's unfair/unconstitutional policies? Well, until you make it illegal, I won't stop.

Also, I assume that you believe that everyone who has spoken out about any government issue is a hypocrite and should move elsewhere.
 
Upvote 0

ContraMundum

Messianic Jewish Christian
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2005
15,666
2,957
Visit site
✟78,078.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello, there, no true Scotsman.

That argument is a fallacy in relation to Christianity. There is a such thing as a true Christian. I outlined what it is, and until someone refutes it, I stand by it. So no, people without a new heart and a new life are not Christians. Plain and simple.

Exactly, but Muslims have seen this happen to us.

<snip>

I think this happens to a lot of people, but only Muslims make headlines out of it, because they are "victims". Sorry, but this is just anecdotal nonsense.

Anyway, I don't blame the authorities for this stuff- the terror trouble at present does come mostly Muslims. This is undeniable.

Uh huh. Shifting the goal posts now.

Some people are never satisfied.

The standard for a prophet claiming to have a new religion is pretty high. Only irrefutable proof from God will suffice.

Millions saw the sea open, the manna from Heaven and the mountain on fire when God started a new covenant with Moses. The number of witnesses alone makes this irrefutable. Thousands saw Jesus heal the sick. The resurrection was seen by hundreds maybe more. Everywhere the Apostles went, miracles followed. This is because God always confirms His word by miracles. Always. The Miracles of Mohammed do not have the nature of the miracles of the Biblical prophets, if they even happened.

The prophecies of Mohammed, to be authentic, must be greater than those of other prophets because he is starting a new religion in God's name. But they're not.

They're relevant because they're referring to periods of time when Islaam was actually the law of the land (much more than it is in any country today) - and it wasn't just a lip service.

No true scotsman?

No, since no two religions can exist in the Arabian peninsula. The last remaining disbelieving tribes were allowed to stay there since the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a treaty with them. Abu Bakr extended this treaty as did, I believe, 'Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them). But then the tribes violated the treaty, so 'Umar had them removed. He gave them land elsewhere in the Muslim land.

So....in the most Islamic country no other religion can "prosper". You just made my point. Furthermore, we know that in countries like Egypt, there are massive restrictions on church building. Secondly, no other religion is allowed to accept converts in many Muslim countries, nor can they seek converts. How does a religion "prosper" in such circumstances? There's restrictions on the printing of materials in some places too. And in many places, the Muslims will just kill you and burn down your churches. Whiny Muslims in the West have it easy. Try being a Christian in Pakistan or many places in Africa.

Why? Because I won't stop criticizing the government's unfair/unconstitutional policies? Well, until you make it illegal, I won't stop.

I don't have that power. I don't live in your country.

Also, I assume that you believe that everyone who has spoken out about any government issue is a hypocrite and should move elsewhere.

No, not at all. I was a political activist like you once too. It's just that your values are completely hostile to other faiths, you exhibit no tolerance for other points of view and your view of your own country is that it won't be any good until it looks exactly the way you personally want it to look. If I lived in a country that I hated that much, that I thought was that unjust, I'd move.

I'll give you an example of someone who put their money where their mouth is: Joan Hinton. I've read a lot of her stuff. She was prepared to give up the cushy life to live by her beliefs.

What's stopping you from moving to Morroco or something?

By the way- have you read this article? I thought of you and wondered what your comments would be.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 25, 2013
3,501
476
✟58,540.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Private
That argument is a fallacy in relation to Christianity. There is a such thing as a true Christian. I outlined what it is, and until someone refutes it, I stand by it. So no, people without a new heart and a new life are not Christians. Plain and simple.

1.) So you've met perfect Christians? Wow. So you've met right-wing Muslims in terms of foreign policy and perfect Christians. Next you'll be telling me that you also met E.T.

2.) Are you saying that the majority of the Christian world is not really Christian and when they die they'll go to Hell forever? Because they were violent or did not give up adultery or what the other sins are in your religion?

3.) How does that end up working out with your belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for your sins?

I think this happens to a lot of people, but only Muslims make headlines out of it, because they are "victims". Sorry, but this is just anecdotal nonsense.
Well, I provided the proof. You haven't. I live as a Muslim in America so I know what I go through and I know what other Muslims go through (and there is proof through non-Muslims - it's not just us saying it). Right now, the only person speaking nonsense is you.

Anyway, I don't blame the authorities for this stuff- the terror trouble at present does come mostly Muslims. This is undeniable.
If they focused on white Christians more, maybe they would have been able to stop Adam Lanza and James Holmes. Maybe they would've found James Holmes buying thousands of rounds of ammo suspicious if only they had been spying on white Christians as much as they spy on Muslims.

But no, they're too busy showing inflammatory, inaccurate videos about Muslims to police officers on a continuous loop for a whole year. They're too busy making their own plots, entrapping young Muslims, and then thwarting their own terror plots. They're too busy illegally searching Muslim neighborhoods even if their jurisdiction does not reach that far. They're too busy threatening an influential, religious Muslim man that if he refuses to become an informant, they'll make his life a living hell. They're too busy terrorizing Muslims in other lands.

In case you missed Illuminaughty's post, here it is again:

Domestic Terrorism in the US:

piechart2.jpg


FBI &mdash; Terrorism 2002/2005


And you call me remarkably biased. Pfft!!!!!

The standard for a prophet claiming to have a new religion is pretty high. Only irrefutable proof from God will suffice.
1.) It's not a new religion. It's the same religion/message that Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus and all of the other Prophets & Messengers (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon them all) were sent with.

2.) The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) split the moon, took the Night Journey to Jerusalem and came back in one night, made a tiny bit of milk sufficient for a whole group of men to drink their fill (i.e. no room left in their stomachs), the tree trunk that the Prophet used to lean on wept when the Prophet stopped delivering his sermons against it & the Prophet stroked it to calm it - the tree weeping was witnessed by those in the masjid, water flowed from his hands from which 1500 men drank & performed ablution, he healed a broken leg, and the biggest miracle of all (greater than even the splitting of the moon or water flowing from his hands) is the Qur'aan. All of this occurred by the will and power of Allaah.

3.) It's not my problem if you refuse to accept the miracles that God sent.

The prophecies of Mohammed, to be authentic, must be greater than those of other prophets because he is starting a new religion in God's name. But they're not.
Because I'm going to take your criteria for prophecies. Right, no thanks. The fact that so many of his prophecies have already come to pass (and they were accurate) only serves to strengthen my faith in Islaam.

No true scotsman?
Intentionally replacing even ONE of God's laws is an act of major disbelief.

So....in the most Islamic country no other religion can "prosper". You just made my point.
1.) I didn't say the religion prospers. I said people of other religions have prospered.

2.) To the best of my knowledge, no other land when ruled by a religious non-Muslim has allowed people of other religions (especially minority religions) to prosper. However, when religious Muslims have ruled nations, non-Muslims were able to prosper & flourish to the extent that Jews were telling persecuted Jews in Christian areas to come & move to the Muslim area.

No, not at all. [snipped]
Again, thanks for your unsolicited advice or comments about what I should do. My only options are not to stay silent about the unfairness or leave. Until even this much freedom of speech is made illegal, I won't stop criticizing the unjust policies.

By the way- have you read this article? I thought of you and wondered what your comments would be.
I don't give a crap what Hamza Yusuf has to say regarding politics or creed. I didn't even listen to him when his lectures were supposedly decent in terms of politics, so why would I listen to him now?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
1.) It's not a new religion. It's the same religion/message that
Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus and all of the other Prophets
& Messengers (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon them all)
were sent with.
Not true. Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus didn't have anything
to do with that "religion of peace" and there is no evidence that
suggests they did.

Mohammad invented it in the 7th Century.
 
Upvote 0

LoAmmi

Dispassionate
Mar 12, 2012
26,944
9,715
✟209,533.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Not true. Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus didn't have anything
to do with that "religion of peace" and there is no evidence that
suggests they did.

Mohammad invented it in the 7th Century.

Yeah, I've always hated this wordplay. Because they "submitted to His will" they practiced Islam! It would be like if I named my new religion "G-d Believers" and then claimed everybody who ever believed in G-d in the Bible was of my religion. We all know that's just not historically accurate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ContraMundum
Upvote 0

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Yeah, I've always hated this wordplay. Because they "submitted to
His will" they practiced Islam! It would be like if I named my new
religion "G-d Believers" and then claimed everybody who ever
believed in G-d in the Bible was of my religion. We all know that's
just not historically accurate.
Playing word games is so silly.

It wasn't until Mohammad decided allah would be his god there's no
way anyone could have worshiped the false idol.

And isn't it odd that God said:
The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a
second time and said: I swear by myself, declares the Lord,
that because you have done this and have not withheld
your son, your only son
, I will surely bless you and make
your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and
as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take
possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your
offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you
have obeyed me. Genesis 22:15-18
He called Issac his only son. Not Ishmael.
 
Upvote 0

anatolian

Senior Veteran
Dec 12, 2006
2,781
98
42
Turkey
✟22,421.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Muslims naturally insist that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion.

Can anyone think of an Islamic country that gives it's citizens the same freedom and opportunity to practice Judaism and Christianity as Muslims enjoy in Western "Christian" nations?

Is this a fair test of whether a religion is peaceful and tolerant?

Ya you are right..Those Western "Christian" nations tend to opress muslims in their own lands, not in Western "Christian" lands...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

wn123455

Junior Member
Sep 14, 2013
1,087
11
✟16,444.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ya you are right..Those Western &quot;Christian&quot; nations tend to opress muslims in their own lands, not in Western &quot;Christian&quot; lands...

Says the turkish muslim who is living in lands stolen from non-muslims. Free Cyprus. Free Constantinople. Free Byzantium.
 
Upvote 0

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Here are some benevolent offerings provided by that "religion of
peace". Enjoy.

From Fox News
Egypt has seen an increase in attacks by Islamic radicals since the
military removed Islamist President Mohammed Morsi and launched
a heavy crackdown on his Muslim Brotherhood and its allies. The
targets have mainly been security forces and Christians, whom
Islamists blame because of their strong support of Morsi's ouster.
In Sinai, suspected jihadi fighters have stepped up attacks on
soldiers and police. In rural provinces of the south, there has been
a wave of mob attacks led by extremists against churches, which
have been burned and looted.

From The Washington Times

CAIRO — Islamist mobs have torched schools and businesses owned
by Christians, looted churches and even paraded captive nuns
through the streets of a city south of Cairo in a display of rage
unseen in Egypt’s recent history.

The campaign of killing and arson is retaliation for the tiny Christian
community’s support of the military coup that ousted President
Mohammed Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood government.

And in the US.

From the Western Center for Journalism
A number of lawsuits have been launched against the city and
although a couple were actually won by the Christians, that didn’t
stop the violence against them. When they did win, the city
appealed and most of the rulings were overturned.

Several of the Christian pastors filed a lawsuit against Wayne
County, the Wayne County Sheriff’s Department and two of deputies
for refusing to protect them from the Muslims that were attacking
them. The deputies not only refused to protect them, they
threatened to arrest them for disorderly conduct if they continued
talking about Jesus and the Bible in the presence of the Muslims.
Such talk was deemed to be offensive to the Muslims who felt
justified in responding with violence.
 
Upvote 0

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,230
3,041
Kenmore, WA
✟277,866.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
wn123455 said:
Says the turkish muslim who is living in lands stolen from non-muslims. Free Cyprus. Free Constantinople. Free Byzantium.

Come to think of it, how did all of those Muslim lands become Muslim in the first place?
 
Upvote 0

kenzo0

Newbie
Oct 8, 2013
360
5
✟8,057.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Not true. Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus didn't have anything
to do with that "religion of peace" and there is no evidence that
suggests they did.

Mohammad invented it in the 7th Century.
though its not true, but Muslims have to believe it, otherwise they wouldn't called as a Muslim.
even if you and/or all people in the world say it isn't, they will still say that it is,
eusa_doh.gif



Genesis 16:12 &#9658;
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
StrTranslitHebrewEnglishMorph1931 [e]w&#601;-h&#363;&#1493;&#1456;&#1492;&#1444;&#1493;&#1468;&#1488;And hePro1961 [e]yih-yeh&#1497;&#1460;&#1492;&#1456;&#1497;&#1462;&#1492;&#1433;will beVerb6501 [e]pe-re&#1508;&#1462;&#1468;&#1443;&#1512;&#1462;&#1488;a wild donkeyNoun120 [e]’&#257;-&#7695;&#257;m,&#1488;&#1464;&#1491;&#1464;&#1428;&#1501;[of a] manNoun3027 [e]y&#257;-&#7695;&#333;w&#1497;&#1464;&#1491;&#1443;&#1493;&#1465;his handNoun3605 [e]&#7687;ak-k&#333;l,&#1489;&#1463;&#1499;&#1465;&#1468;&#1428;&#1500;[will be] against every manNoun3027 [e]w&#601;-ya&#7695;&#1493;&#1456;&#1497;&#1463;&#1445;&#1491;and handNoun3605 [e]k&#333;l&#1499;&#1465;&#1468;&#1430;&#1500;EveryNoun b&#333;w;&#1489;&#1468;&#1425;&#1493;&#1465;inPrep5921 [e]w&#601;-‘al-&#1493;&#1456;&#1506;&#1463;&#1500;&#1470;and over againstPrep6440 [e]p&#601;-nê&#1508;&#1456;&#1468;&#1504;&#1461;&#1445;&#1497;the presence ofNoun3605 [e]&#7733;&#257;l&#1499;&#1464;&#1500;&#1470;allNoun251 [e]’e-&#7717;&#257;w&#1488;&#1462;&#1495;&#1464;&#1430;&#1497;&#1493;his brothersNoun7931 [e]yiš-k&#333;n.&#1497;&#1460;&#1513;&#1456;&#1473;&#1499;&#1465;&#1468;&#1469;&#1503;&#1475;he shall dwellVerb

and Muhammad claimed he was Ismael's heir
eusa_dance.gif
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
... though its not true, but Muslims have to believe it, otherwise
they wouldn't called as a Muslim. Even if you and/or all people in
the world say it isn't, they will still say that it is,
True, they will. I don't believe anyone is trying to say otherwise.
Thankfully that doesn't make them right. For that we should all
be grateful.
 
Upvote 0

Lord Emsworth

Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves.
Oct 10, 2004
51,745
421
Through the cables and the underground ...
✟61,459.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Lord Emsworth

Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves.
Oct 10, 2004
51,745
421
Through the cables and the underground ...
✟61,459.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
LOL! By which citizen's of Turkey.

Too funny!

Doesn't really matter which citizens. I don't think anybody would recognize him anyway. Chances are, he'd go down with charges of blasphemy too if he claimed to be the prophet.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Deacon Don

Regular Member
Oct 25, 2013
307
18
✟15,497.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Doesn't really matter which citizens. I don't think anybody would
recognize him anyway. Chances are, he'd go down with charges of
blasphemy too if he claimed to be the prophet.
No doubt. He was quite a charismatic person. A cross between
Elmer Gantry and Bozo the clown.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0