ISIS and the Movement of Principalities

[RDKirk]

Nobody,it seems, is talking about the spiritual aspects of what's going on in the world. Theology, yes, but spirituality, no. I guess this forum is where that kind of discussion can take place.

What is going on in the spiritual realm?

I look at Daniel 10 and see how the activity in the spiritual realm--especially at the level of demonic principalities--translates to activity in the material realm.

The demonic principality that had for decades governed Persia (that is, the government and culture of the Persian people: The kingdom of Persia, as opposed to the land) moves out of the area of the Levant and the demonic principality governing the kingdom of Greece moves in.

In the spiritual realm, one principality check out, another principality checks in. Notice, there is no war between demonic principalities--Satan's house is not divided.

But that simple movement of principalities--no conflict between them-- is reflected by war between nations. Death, destruction, and chaos.

Amid this, the angel Michael assigned to protect the Jews (the people, not the land) continues to do so. The Jews are not destroyed.

I watched the Soviet Union collapse from the Defense Intelligence Agency in the Pentagon. My particular job at the time was monitoring Soviet air forces every day. What I saw within one week was a total collapse of their ability to fight war.

I read reports from other areas saying the same thing: Chaos and confusion. A US Army attache in Eastern Europe reported seeing Soviet Army soldiers throwing their equipment into trucks, offering to sell what they could to anyone on the street (including him), and literally fleeing in his words "as though they were in full-scale retreat from something."

NSA reported the Soviet Cosmonauts in their Mir space station were sending frantic calls back to the Baikonur Cosmodrome--terrified that they had been abandoned in space because the Soviet space scientists and controllers stopped coming to work.

To be sure, we had long noted reasons why the Soviet Union could not go on forever. In many ways, the Soviet Union operated like a man eating his own foot. But that could have gone on for decades more.

What we saw was something different. This huge edifice of war power that had been ready for instant war day in and day out for decades suddenly fell apart like a marionette with its strings cut.

In conversation with other Christians in the Pentagon, we came to a realization: We had just witnessed the movement of a principality. A principality had been governing the Soviet Union for 70 years, then it suddenly moved out and without its control...chaos.

Note, that there is a difference between "general" evil common to man and the governments of men and the concerted evil under the control of a principality. Demons commonly operate in ways that produce chaos in a nation similar to a river running through rapids.

I see the actions of a principality as a broader scope of activity, not like the smashing around of rocks in a stream, but like a storm flood. Not to try to get into too much definitive detail about that, but when I see inexplicably insane activity concerted across a huge number of people--like a herd of swine galloping in formation into a lake-- I start to wonder if there isn't a governing principality that has gotten its host of lesser demons going in a single direction.

Now, I look at ISIS and it seems like we're seeing the movement of a principality--especially to the extent that it is enthralling people in many places of the world.

But if we are seeing the movement of a principality, what does it mean for us as the worldwide Body of Christ? A principality does not move without permission, nor can a principality be resisted by material force. A principality can only be resisted by a defending angel.

 

[Optimax]

With ISIS I do not always see principalities moving.

Yeman is an example of some movement.

Yet the movement, unlike what is recorded in Daniel, does not benefit the Jews.

On the contrary it is an escalation of the threats that Israel faces day in and day out.

I see with ISIS more of the spirit of lawlessness taking hold in the world along with the demonic influence of nations and rebel forces which will eventually move against Israel.

That escalation of the spirit of lawlessness can also be plainly seen in the US.

There is a "move" happening among certain people against authority.

That move now is against the people who keep law and order in the country.

The Police Departments.

 

[Truthfrees]

Nobody,it seems, is talking about the spiritual aspects of what's going on in the world. Theology, yes, but spirituality, no. I guess this forum is where that kind of discussion can take place.

What is going on in the spiritual realm?

I look at Daniel 10 and see how the activity in the spiritual realm--especially at the level of demonic principalities--translates to activity in the material realm.

The demonic principality that had for decades governed Persia (that is, the government and culture of the Persian people: The kingdom of Persia, as opposed to the land) moves out of the area of the Levant and the demonic principality governing the kingdom of Greece moves in.

In the spiritual realm, one principality check out, another principality checks in. Notice, there is no war between demonic principalities--Satan's house is not divided.

But that simple movement of principalities--no conflict between them-- is reflected by war between nations. Death, destruction, and chaos.

Amid this, the angel Michael assigned to protect the Jews (the people, not the land) continues to do so. The Jews are not destroyed.

I watched the Soviet Union collapse from the Defense Intelligence Agency in the Pentagon. My particular job at the time was monitoring Soviet air forces every day. What I saw within one week was a total collapse of their ability to fight war.

I read reports from other areas saying the same thing: Chaos and confusion. A US Army attache in Eastern Europe reported seeing Soviet Army soldiers throwing their equipment into trucks, offering to sell what they could to anyone on the street (including him), and literally fleeing in his words "as though they were in full-scale retreat from something."

NSA reported the Soviet Cosmonauts in their Mir space station were sending frantic calls back to the Baikonur Cosmodrome--terrified that they had been abandoned in space because the Soviet space scientists and controllers stopped coming to work.

To be sure, we had long noted reasons why the Soviet Union could not go on forever. In many ways, the Soviet Union operated like a man eating his own foot. But that could have gone on for decades more.

What we saw was something different. This huge edifice of war power that had been ready for instant war day in and day out for decades suddenly fell apart like a marionette with its strings cut.

In conversation with other Christians in the Pentagon, we came to a realization: We had just witnessed the movement of a principality. A principality had been governing the Soviet Union for 70 years, then it suddenly moved out and without its control...chaos.

Note, that there is a difference between "general" evil common to man and the governments of men and the concerted evil under the control of a principality. Demons commonly operate in ways that produce chaos in a nation similar to a river running through rapids.

I see the actions of a principality as a broader scope of activity, not like the smashing around of rocks in a stream, but like a storm flood. Not to try to get into too much definitive detail about that, but when I see inexplicably insane activity concerted across a huge number of people--like a herd of swine galloping in formation into a lake-- I start to wonder if there isn't a governing principality that has gotten its host of lesser demons going in a single direction.

Now, I look at ISIS and it seems like we're seeing the movement of a principality--especially to the extent that it is enthralling people in many places of the world.

But if we are seeing the movement of a principality, what does it mean for us as the worldwide Body of Christ? A principality does not move without permission, nor can a principality be resisted by material force. A principality can only be resisted by a defending angel.

I think it's Brother Andrew(?), the guy who smuggled Bibles into countries who tells true stories of his experience on this topic.

He said he and his team would be on one side of a town divided by a river. They'd hand out tracts and Bibles easily leading people to Christ. Then they cross the river and find severe opposition. He asked the Lord what's going on? He says the Lord told him to deal with the principalities in the region. He did as instructed and immediately the opposition ceased.

Excellent topic. I'm interested in learning more on how to apply what Brother Andrew did.

I'll look for that book and re-read it to see what steps the Lord gave Brother Andrew. I remember they were extremely simple, uncomplicated, doable. I think the book was "The Practice of the Presence of God" or "God's Smuggler".

Great topic.

 

[RDKirk]

With ISIS I do not always see principalities moving.

Yeman is an example of some movement.

Yet the movement, unlike what is recorded in Daniel, does not benefit the Jews.

On the contrary it is an escalation of the threats that Israel faces day in and day out.

I see with ISIS more of the spirit of lawlessness taking hold in the world along with the demonic influence of nations and rebel forces which will eventually move against Israel.

That escalation of the spirit of lawlessness can also be plainly seen in the US.

There is a "move" happening among certain people against authority.

That move now is against the people who keep law and order in the country.

The Police Departments.

God's plans are far-ranged. The Persians under Cyrus were treating the Jews very well--the Greeks did not. Yet scripture tells us plainly that was a moment of principalities.

But you're not talking about the movement of principalities, but mostly the normal shenanigans of demons and the normal proclivities of the flesh of men. I don't think there is an "escalation" of the spirit of lawlessness in the US at all--it's always been here, merely in directions you weren't paying attention to.

A move of principalities is a big, dramatic movement--empire against empire.

In Daniel, God sent Michael to protect the Jews--Persia had merely been a temporary tool for His purpose. Though Persia has done well by the Jews for a while (as had Egypt), when God was done with Persia, he permitted the demonic principalities to do as they willed. God does not respect any nation but His own.

 

[Optimax]

Seems that God was the one that initiated the change from the Persian empire to the Greeks.

Gabrielle was engaged in the fight, delaying his visit with Daniel.

Michael joined in the battle as he is a warring angel while Gabriel is the "Messenger" angel.

 

[RDKirk]

Seems that God was the one that initiated the change from the Persian empire to the Greeks.

Gabrielle was engaged in the fight, delaying his visit with Daniel.

Michael joined in the battle as he is a warring angel while Gabriel is the "Messenger" angel.

Watch out for the timing. In Daniel 10, an angel (I think not Gabriel, because Daniel knew Gabriel from their earlier meeting, but does not identify this angel) brought the interpretation of the prophesy during Daniel's time. The event of the prophesy--that is, the invasion of Persia by Alexander the Great, occurred after Daniel's time.

The angel that brought the interpretation to Daniel had come from heaven, then been waylaid by the principality of Persia, and had been held up three weeks until assisted by Michael --another principality of greater power than the principality of Persia (calling Michael a "chief principality," rather than just a "principality").

After delivering the prophesy to Daniel, that angel stated that he was going back to wrestle the principality of Persia, which opened a spiritual power vacuum that the principality of Greece filled.

Michael was protecting the Jews from the principality of Greece during Alexander's invasion, so he was no longer involved in wrestling with wresting the principality of Persia--although it's possible that the angel who brought the prophesy to Daniel and returned to wrestle the principality of Persia might still be locked in that combat to this day.

But we have four clear principalities involved: The principality of Persia, the principality of Greece, the principality that brought the interpretation to Daniel, and Michael the principality protecting the Jews.

During this time, a succession of Persian kings have progressively treated the Jews more benignly (perhaps because the principality of Persia was being kept busy by that unnamed angel), and not long before Alexander's arrival the Jews have even been allowed to rebuild Jerusalem.

In extra-biblical history, when Alexander invaded the area, something interesting happens. He and his army are marching toward Jerusalem to destroy it as he'd destroyed so many other cities that had been under Persian rule, when he is met by a man in white, a prophet from Jerusalem. We don't know what is said, but it causes Alexander to stop and turn his army away from Jerusalem.

Was that Michael (the defender of the Jews) confronting the principality of Greece?

 

[Svt4Him]

Michael is the defender of the Jews?

 

[RDKirk]

Michael is the defender of the Jews?

So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince. And in the first year of Darius the Mede, I took my stand to support and protect him". --Daniel 10, 11

 

[Alithis]

God's plans are far-ranged. The Persians under Cyrus were treating the Jews very well--the Greeks did not. Yet scripture tells us plainly that was a moment of principalities.

But you're not talking about the movement of principalities, but mostly the normal shenanigans of demons and the normal proclivities of the flesh of men. I don't think there is an "escalation" of the spirit of lawlessness in the US at all--it's always been here, merely in directions you weren't paying attention to.

A move of principalities is a big, dramatic movement--empire against empire.

In Daniel, God sent Michael to protect the Jews--Persia had merely been a temporary tool for His purpose. Though Persia has done well by the Jews for a while (as had Egypt), when God was done with Persia, he permitted the demonic principalities to do as they willed. God does not respect any nation but His own.

I don't think there is an "escalation" of the spirit of lawlessness in the US at all--it's always been here, merely in directions you weren't paying attention to. like the moral lawlessness? ..ie the sexual revolution, free (carnal sensuality with its name changed ) love. .. (and resulting abortions)break down of family values , the rampage of children disrespecting parants and resulting rebellions etc .. all spiritual values that hinder the free movement of the demonic .. they went unde siege during the 60's and 70's and eroded ever since ..
the way is being made open for a such a principality to move in for some time now .but it is the hearts of mankind which make it possible ...a nation never but never rejects one spirit (in this case Gods) in order to rule themselves .that's the delusion . if we reject god then we get another Spirit .as it is with the individual ,so it is with the collective. (nation)
that digresses from your OP .. so just let it lay .im just conversing .

im interested in the topic and the concepts of it .. they are clear .

i think it was Samuel Doctarian (spelling?) who prophesied of the angels(godly) of the 5 continents who foretold the sins tsunami and many other disasters ..including the great sorrows that would befall Syria and then flew over the america's and cried out" there is no justice in her any longer" and declared judgments .

it is interesting , 2 things are notable .. the odd migration of western youth to isis (in order to carry out their bloodlust i think is the true reason-which is demonic in itself ) and the desensitization of the concept of beheading people .. whaT WAS AT FIRST SHOCKING ...i s being repeated and reported by the media, which has the effect of no longer being shocking .. Personally i believe that plays a part and is not random in doing so . people will become accustomed to the principle that beheading people who do not comply (with whatever ) is a normal process ..think of the ongoing implications .-just food for thought , i don't know .

Also the lord says he will "gather" the nations who have been harassing Israel all this time and reckon with them ..his sovereign hand can move principalities to bring that about ,, he puts hooks in and draws them into position to judge them .

goodness im digressing all over the place lol .. but i believe the world as we, (our generation who rose up after ww2 ),know it , will change more dramatically and more quickly then any of us ever imagined ..
the calamities will be natural, + war + celestial (throwing down of wormwood to make a 3rd of the waters poison? -who knows, meteor? ) + supernatural .

in perspective ..the word says troubles .. so bad that the earth has never seen before ever , nor ever again !.. and that if God does not intervene - extinction of flesh would result . that is not a fickle picture of some troubles over there in another land .

any way yes interesting topic .. more?

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think there is an "escalation" of the spirit of lawlessness in the US at all--it's always been here, merely in directions you weren't paying attention to. like the moral lawlessness? ..ie the sexual revolution, free (carnal sensuality with its name changed ) love. .. (and resulting abortions)break down of family values , the rampage of children disrespecting parants and resulting rebellions etc .. all spiritual values that hinder the free movement of the demonic .. they went unde siege during the 60's and 70's and eroded ever since ..

The overall "evil content" of the world is increasing, and it will increase until Christ returns.

But the US has never been "righteous"--the spirit of lawlessness has always been in the US. In fact, that was one of the critical issues debated prior to the Declaration of Independence--whether the Colonials were entertaining lawlessness against Romans 13 in rebelling against the king.

But the true lawless spirit in the US is evidence by the evil fruit of the national policies, from slavery to the treatment of Indians to oppression of laborers to the destruction of the environment. None of that was the rule of God, it was all for the love of money, which is the root of all evil in leadership.

But discussing lawless in the US is not the point of this thread. I'm talking about the ISIS phenomenon being the movement of a principality and how to think about it as such.

it is interesting , 2 things are notable .. the odd migration of western youth to isis (in order to carry out their bloodlust i think is the true reason-which is demonic in itself ) and the desensitization of the concept of beheading people .. whaT WAS AT FIRST SHOCKING ...i s being repeated and reported by the media, which has the effect of no longer being shocking .. Personally i believe that plays a part and is not random in doing so . people will become accustomed to the principle that beheading people who do not comply (with whatever ) is a normal process ..think of the ongoing implications .-just food for thought , i don't know .

This phenomenon of the attraction of people from far outside the region as well as groups that had before now been unaffiliated with ISIS is part of what gives evidence to its spiritual aspect, IMO.

It was noted long ago that ISIS is a "pan-terrorist" movement, attracting terrorists from Russia, China, Europe, Africa, and the Americas. That didn't surprise me much.

I've been aware for nearly 20 years that there has been a continuous roving "swarm" of around 20-30,000 fighters attracted to where ever the current war might be. It picks up young men who are displaces by various smaller wars, young men who grow up as fighters, never having been farmers or shopkeepers, never knowing peace. That this "fighter swarm" would be attracted to this war did not surprise me.

What's more surprising is the attraction to young men and women from more comfortable environments. These young people are not in overall radical environments, not even as Muslims. They are not getting "Join ISIS" from the weekly Friday sermons at their mosques. They are getting this from the relatively narrow impersonal contacts with ISIS through social media -- Facebook, Twitter, et cetera--and even this very narrow contact is enough to overcome the whole rest of their experience and environment.

Think of the influence of this evil spirit being transmitted like an infection. Islam is the vector, but Islam does not cause this disease--it provides a means of contact with the infected.

The second thing I note is the combination of extremely brutal evil plus the scale of extreme evil sustained over time. That combination is not sustainable by mere men operating on their own.

This could almost read like some kind of zombie movie, and I wouldn't be surprised if demons had a hand in them as well as a kind of omen.

 

[parsley]

principalities:
archḗ # 746 ἀρχή

Strong's Definition

From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

Thayer's

1. beginning, origin
2. the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3. that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4. the extremity of a thing
   1. of the corners of a sail
5. the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
   1. of angels and demons

People open supernatural doorways through invitation, participation, and fear of inevitability. Jesus taught us how to resist and even take charge of supernatural situations, on invisible spiritual levels.

Not by might, not by power, but by His Spirit.

 

[RDKirk]

People open supernatural doorways through invitation, participation, and fear of inevitability. Jesus taught us how to resist and even take charge of supernatural situations, on invisible spiritual levels.

Not by might, not by power, but by His Spirit.

And in this case, we have people praying for the will to do these evil things. The people in ISIS pray five times a day for the power and will to do evil, and they pray in one accord to do evil.

Through social media, they contact other people and entice those people to pray their same prayer for the will to do evil.

Are there evil spirits that respond to these prayers to do evil? Of course there are.

We who accept that spirits exist--demonic and angelic--need to think about the spiritual aspects of these things. We are seeing an evil force propelled by a principality.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal" yet only carnal weapons being proposed to combat what we ought to recognize as the moment of a principality and the activity of demons.

But we also ought to be praying for insight as to what is actually happening at levels beyond the principality. We need the insight that Daniel gained in what God is allowing these principalities to do and what the outcome would be.

In Daniel's time, Persia was becoming a source of protection for the Jews, and it probably dismayed him to learn that the Greeks--an unknown commodity--would overcome their current source of protection for Daniel's people. But knowing what God was about to permit, Daniel could only hope for protection for his people through it--which the angel also promised, that Michael would continue to shield them.

 

[TillICollapse]

Do you believe there are any principalities which influence or are the umbrella over parts of "Christianity" in general in the US ? By this I mean the main/major movements which have majorities in the US.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you believe there are any principalities which influence or are the umbrella over parts of "Christianity" in general in the US ? By this I mean the main/major movements which have majorities in the US.

When the US Constitution was ratified in 1789, virtually everyone asserted or conceded that slavery was a sin, including slaveholders. But the slaveholders refused to give up their slaves for purely financial reasons. Within 10 years, the slaveholders rather suddenly repudiated the sinful nature of slavery and for the first time ever anywhere concocted theological justifications for slavery. Influential figures such as Thomas Jefferson literally did a 180-degree turn from their previous positions. Some groups, such as the Baptists in the south created new conventions or denominations in order to continue slavery. Catholics in the south defied the Pope's ban on slavery. Since then, the Southeast has been the most depressed area of the country in nearly every way, despite being the "Bible Belt,"it does not display the blessings that ought to be congruent with the nickname.

I believe a principality descended on the South in the early 1800s and has been there since.

During the late 1980s (at least) there was a principality over Washington DC. A number of us realized it (including pastor TL Lowery at National Church of God)--it was so palpable that as soon as you drove beyond the Beltway you could feel it lifted.

 

[TillICollapse]

When the US Constitution was ratified in 1789, virtually everyone asserted or conceded that slavery was a sin, including slaveholders. But the slaveholders refused to give up their slaves for purely financial reasons. Within 10 years, the slaveholders rather suddenly repudiated the sinful nature of slavery and for the first time ever anywhere concocted theological justifications for slavery. Influential figures such as Thomas Jefferson literally did a 180-degree turn from their previous positions. Some groups, such as the Baptists in the south created new conventions or denominations in order to continue slavery. Catholics in the south defied the Pope's ban on slavery. Since then, the Southeast has been the most depressed area of the country in nearly every way, despite being the "Bible Belt,"it does not display the blessings that ought to be congruent with the nickname.

I believe a principality descended on the South in the early 1800s and has been there since.

During the late 1980s (at least) there was a principality over Washington DC. A number of us realized it (including pastor TL Lowery at National Church of God)--it was so palpable that as soon as you drove beyond the Beltway you could feel it lifted.

Hmmm ....

 

[TillICollapse]

When the US Constitution was ratified in 1789, virtually everyone asserted or conceded that slavery was a sin, including slaveholders. But the slaveholders refused to give up their slaves for purely financial reasons. Within 10 years, the slaveholders rather suddenly repudiated the sinful nature of slavery and for the first time ever anywhere concocted theological justifications for slavery. Influential figures such as Thomas Jefferson literally did a 180-degree turn from their previous positions. Some groups, such as the Baptists in the south created new conventions or denominations in order to continue slavery. Catholics in the south defied the Pope's ban on slavery. Since then, the Southeast has been the most depressed area of the country in nearly every way, despite being the "Bible Belt,"it does not display the blessings that ought to be congruent with the nickname.

I believe a principality descended on the South in the early 1800s and has been there since.

During the late 1980s (at least) there was a principality over Washington DC. A number of us realized it (including pastor TL Lowery at National Church of God)--it was so palpable that as soon as you drove beyond the Beltway you could feel it lifted.

Okay I realize this is somewhat derailing, but this thread is perhaps as good as any ...

Back on the US and Christianity, what do you think of the idea that the principalities are in plain sight ? You mentioned one descending on Washington DC in the late 80's, but wouldn't it have been there all along ?

Consider the name of DC in and of itself: District of Columbia. Columbia is the personification of a female pseudo-classical goddess created and based on the Roman Latin tradition in Europe at the time. IOW, it's the "symbol" of a principality or spiritual authority, so named "Columbia". In concert with Libertas (Roman goddess of Liberty) it's just one of the principalities of the US. The US has a rich tradition of appealing to spiritual authorities: Manifest Destiny, "In God We Trust", etc. Thus, these principalities have been there all along.

Do you see these as spiritual realities, or is this just conspiracy theory attempting to tie into spiritual realities ?

Concerning Christianity, the ties to Mystery Babylon etc are theorized ... what are your thoughts on this ?

 

[Alithis]

also a a bit of a derail question ..so feel free to brush it off.. but on the topic of principalities (and knowing they are modern though ancient )
does any one else note the odd irony that (in English at least ) the worldly given abbreviation of Isis is the very same name of that ancient demonic inspired false goddess from whence most false religions (including "mother of god " & "queen of heaven"worship) originate ?

 

[Rhamiel]

very interesting thread

do you think that "principalities" are always evil? always demonic?
or are their faithful principalities who did not rebel against God?

ISIS views itself as the Caliphate, the world has not had a true Caliphate since the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI
this is a powerful psychological pull on Muslims

 

[RDKirk]

also a a bit of a derail question ..so feel free to brush it off.. but on the topic of principalities (and knowing they are modern though ancient )
does any one else note the odd irony that (in English at least ) the worldly given abbreviation of Isis is the very same name of that ancient demonic inspired false goddess from whence most false religions (including "mother of god " & "queen of heaven"worship) originate ?

It's not "ISIS" in Arabic.

 

[RDKirk]

very interesting thread

do you think that "principalities" are always evil? always demonic?
or are their faithful principalities who did not rebel against God?

I expect that "prince" or "principality" refers to a certain level of power and authority among spiritual beings. I believe the Catholic Church has specifically delineated the hierarchy of angelic beings, and I'd expect that hierarchy is reflect both among faithful angels and rebellious demons.

I don't think scripture makes it perfectly clear, but Michael is at least of principality rank, yet not at Satan's rank.

ISIS views itself as the Caliphate, the world has not had a true Caliphate since the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WWI
this is a powerful psychological pull on Muslims

And it may be a major spiritual move as well, as I think it is. That's one of the reasons it's able to infect disparate persons and groups around the world. Islam is the vector, but the actual "disease" is the work of this evil spirit, carried by Islam, the way activities common to homosexuality are the vectors for HIV.

But another question is: Is this a spiritual move being permitted by God for His long-term purpose? In fact, if this is a movement of principalities, it most likely is a move being permitted by God for His purpose.