Isaiah Ode and the Septuagint?

[~Anastasia~]

"Bring more evils upon them, O Lord, bring more evils upon those who are glorious upon the earth."

I had been wondering about this from the Liturgy, and it was mentioned in another thread. I tried to look it up, and have been directed by searching online to

Ps. 117:26-27 (Septuagint numbering) and Is. 26:15 (Septuagint).

I've check a number of Bible versions, those locations and the chapters before and after, and I've tried to search for it in general using Bible software.

So I am wondering ... where exactly IS that in the Bible, and more importantly, when something refers to Septuagint, how can I find it?

I would really appreciate knowing, as I've ver often seen references to Septuagint scriptures before. Thank you!

 

[icxn]

That quote comes from Is. 26:15 (not Ps. 117). The Septuagint version is somewhat different from the masoretic translations.

The site linked has the Septuagint version (English translation) in pdf here: The Septuagint Bible Online

 

[~Anastasia~]

That quote comes from Is. 26:15 (not Ps. 117). The Septuagint version is somewhat different from the masoretic translations.

The site linked has the Septuagint version (English translation) in pdf here: The Septuagint Bible Online

Thank you so much for both of those.

Wiki gave me the Psalms (I have no idea why) and I spent some time looking for it there before giving up.

Thank you for the link.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So I am wondering ... where exactly IS that in the Bible, and more importantly, when something refers to Septuagint, how can I find it?

although not perfect, many of us on here have a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible, which has the Septuagint Old Testament. you can find them all over, even in bookstores like Barnes and Noble.

 

[~Anastasia~]

although not perfect, many of us on here have a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible, which has the Septuagint Old Testament. you can find them all over, even in bookstores like Barnes and Noble.

Ah, yes, I want to get one someday. It's also the one most of the people in the Bible study at church use.

They had an online downloadable one for $3.99 a while back. I wish I had known it was a short-term price. I hadn't realized it used the Septuagint as a textual basis. I appreciate the info, that's good to know. I'll definitely put it on my list, thank you.

 

[Kristos]

Looks like your question has already been answered - but yes, this ode is taken from Isaiah 26. The Septuagint is used as the source for most EO translations into other languages. The history is quite interesting. Not that there is anything wrong with translations based on the Masoretic text, in fact it can be useful to read both, but liturgically, we use the Septuagint. Some will go so far as to claim that Jesus used it Himself, which is speculation, but in any case, most OT quotes in the NT are clearly taken from it. I suppose it would only make sense if you were writing in Greek to use a Greek source for your quotes, but also remember that these quotes were meant to be easily recognizable by the hearer - so there was definitely an expectation that Christians were familiar with the Septuagint.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Looks like your question has already been answered - but yes, this ode is taken from Isaiah 26. The Septuagint is used as the source for most EO translations into other languages. The history is quite interesting. Not that there is anything wrong with translations based on the Masoretic text, in fact it can be useful to read both, but liturgically, we use the Septuagint. Some will go so far as to claim that Jesus used it Himself, which is speculation, but in any case, most OT quotes in the NT are clearly taken from it. I suppose it would only make sense if you were writing in Greek to use a Greek source for your quotes, but also remember that these quotes were meant to be easily recognizable by the hearer - so there was definitely an expectation that Christians were familiar with the Septuagint.

Thank you Kristos.

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question then?

I am confused sometimes when I see that the chapters (of the Psalms, for example) have a different numbering. Is there a simple list of "what's different" so I know where to look for things? I usually use keyword searches, but if the translation changes some words, that won't work.

I have a hard enough time finding Bibles that include the books removed from the Protestant Bible. I normally rely on aps where I have downloaded Bibles, but nearly all of the ones available do not include those.

And the other funny thing is that I used to collect Bible translations. I have probably two or three large shelves full, if I put them all in one place. As I recall, none of them include those books either.

Thanks again.

 

[Kristos]

Thank you Kristos.

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question then?

I am confused sometimes when I see that the chapters (of the Psalms, for example) have a different numbering. Is there a simple list of "what's different" so I know where to look for things? I usually use keyword searches, but if the translation changes some words, that won't work.

I have a hard enough time finding Bibles that include the books removed from the Protestant Bible. I normally rely on aps where I have downloaded Bibles, but nearly all of the ones available do not include those.

And the other funny thing is that I used to collect Bible translations. I have probably two or three large shelves full, if I put them all in one place. As I recall, none of them include those books either.

Thanks again.

The difference in numbering is somewhat inconsequential besides making it difficult to find a verse. There are other difference in the naming as well - like 1 & 2 Samuel are call 1 & 2 Kings and 1& 2 Kings are called 3 & 4 Kings.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The difference in numbering is somewhat inconsequential besides making it difficult to find a verse. There are other difference in the naming as well - like 1 & 2 Samuel are call 1 & 2 Kings and 1& 2 Kings are called 3 & 4 Kings.

Thank you.

 

[Knee V]

Thank you Kristos.

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question then?

I am confused sometimes when I see that the chapters (of the Psalms, for example) have a different numbering. Is there a simple list of "what's different" so I know where to look for things? I usually use keyword searches, but if the translation changes some words, that won't work.

I have a hard enough time finding Bibles that include the books removed from the Protestant Bible. I normally rely on aps where I have downloaded Bibles, but nearly all of the ones available do not include those.

And the other funny thing is that I used to collect Bible translations. I have probably two or three large shelves full, if I put them all in one place. As I recall, none of them include those books either.

Thanks again.

As for the numbering of the Psalms:

-Both are the same up to Psalm 8.
-The MT Psalms 9-10 are combined in the LXX as one Psalm, Psalm 9. At that point the LXX lags by one.
-They reconverge toward the very end, where the LXX breaks up Psalm 146 or 147 into two Psalms, at which point the MT and LXX sync up again.
-But in the middle of the LXX Psalter it gets a little hairier for a few Psalms. I'd have to look up which ones exactly, but in the middle the LXX combines two more Psalms, and lags the MT by two. Then a few Psalms later it divides a Psalm in two, and is back to lagging the MT numbering by just one.

 

[~Anastasia~]

As for the numbering of the Psalms:

-Both are the same up to Psalm 8.
-The MT Psalms 9-10 are combined in the LXX as one Psalm, Psalm 9. At that point the LXX lags by one.
-They reconverge toward the very end, where the LXX breaks up Psalm 146 or 147 into two Psalms, at which point the MT and LXX sync up again.
-But in the middle of the LXX Psalter it gets a little hairier for a few Psalms. I'd have to look up which ones exactly, but in the middle the LXX combines two more Psalms, and lags the MT by two. Then a few Psalms later it divides a Psalm in two, and is back to lagging the MT numbering by just one.

Oh, I see. No wonder I can never find them. I thought there was a 1-off case so I checked the one before and after, and still didn't find what I was looking for, at least once.

This is helpful, thank you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

if you wanna know something else about the Septuagint's Psalms, even without the renumbering, we still have a 151st Psalm in ours, written by David after he killed Goliath.

 

[~Anastasia~]

if you wanna know something else about the Septuagint's Psalms, even without the renumbering, we still have a 151st Psalm in ours, written by David after he killed Goliath.

That was actually the first thing I noticed.

The rest remained a bit of a puzzle though.

Thank you!

 

[mark46]

See attached for a bit more on the 151st Psalm.

Psalm 151 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if you wanna know something else about the Septuagint's Psalms, even without the renumbering, we still have a 151st Psalm in ours, written by David after he killed Goliath.

 

[truefiction1]

Wow! Talk about synchronicity! While I was driving home from work this morning I was pondering on some things related to the holocaust and that exact Bible verse came into mind, and I believe I uttered it aloud while reflecting upon its meaning.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Wow! Talk about synchronicity! While I was driving home from work this morning I was pondering on some things related to the holocaust and that exact Bible verse came into mind, and I believe I uttered it aloud while reflecting upon its meaning.

interesting...how so?

 

[~Anastasia~]

See attached for a bit more on the 151st Psalm.

Psalm 151 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting.

Thank you for that. I knew nothing at all about the history, and the fact that it was eventually found on the DSS is interesting as well. I'm still learning the basics on the texts.

Thanks again.