Is this Idolatry?

[znr]

You've already slammed Joyce here several times, complete with polls -- hardly a pearl. Why infer that you have a negative opinion here of her here, now? Have YOU ever actually listened to Joyce's teachings? (I know the answer is No.) I'm not trying to be a mean person here, we're still brother and sister and all - but I AM putting it bluntly. I really am freaking tired of people slamming certain preachers here. I'm tired of seeing people (not nec. you, anyone/everyone who does this) call other people/preachers false this and false that. People seem to delight in sharing their misinformed opinion on people they've never heard teach. I've asked many people who claim Joyce to be a false teacher if they've actually listened to her teaching - if they know anything about the woman, her past, her story, what she believes, how she teaches it. Not ONE of those people asked could answer yes, I know the facts and here they are. Not one. In fact, I get a lot of people ignoring me flat out when I ask these questions, as you can see above.

Well I shall remain silent on my views of Joel and Joyce since it turns topics into battle. >.> Also I point to my signature.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

You've already slammed Joyce here several times, complete with polls -- hardly a pearl. Why infer that you have a negative opinion here of her here, now? Have YOU ever actually listened to Joyce's teachings? (I know the answer is No.) I'm not trying to be a mean person here, we're still brother and sister and all - but I AM putting it bluntly. I really am freaking tired of people slamming certain preachers here. I'm tired of seeing people (not nec. you, anyone/everyone who does this) call other people/preachers false this and false that. People seem to delight in sharing their misinformed opinion on people they've never heard teach. I've asked many people who claim Joyce to be a false teacher if they've actually listened to her teaching - if they know anything about the woman, her past, her story, what she believes, how she teaches it. Not ONE of those people asked could answer yes, I know the facts and here they are. Not one. In fact, I get a lot of people ignoring me flat out when I ask these questions, as you can see above.

Joel and Joyce both belong to a popular movement called Word of Faith ; there are some distinct differences in that compared to Biblical Christianity and this will help define those : The Flawed Foundation Of Word Of Faith Theology Part 1 « THE WORD on The Word of Faith (a GroupBlog)

Sadly, nearly ALL those who appear on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network) are Word of Faith Teachers who preach mostly truth but sprinkled with a small amount of poison. Its very subtle and sounds good to the unsuspecting Viewer and Hearer...and unless you pick up on it, you will buy it as truth. The most common one is : You can bring into existence things or situations by 'speaking them' into reality. Theres loads of others ones too. If you want a free critique fairly represented on WOF Teachers by name, then go to the Christian Research Institute and request a writeup on that person . Go here : www.equip.org. Or , listen to the Radio Bible Answerman online thru the website because he addresses these false Teachers very often over the mic. P.S. Scroll down to Joel or Joyce on this : http://www.equip.org/articles/christianity-still-in-crisis/

 

[fuji]

I can tell you have never heard a full Joyce Meyer teaching series, and probably I'm guessing here, not even a single full hour of her teaching. Most people who accuse her of being a false teacher 1) don't have any idea what she teaches because 2) they have not actually listened to her teachings, but perhaps heard rumors and just went with those instead - so they 3) accuse her of being "feel good" because they 4) see #1 and #2.

The last thing Joyce Meyers teaches is feel good Christianity. Anyone who's listened to her teachings knows she doesn't teach feel good anything.

I bet it feels good to have this house and money. I look at the fruits of every teacher, are they living a life that they preach?

I would love to meet Joyce and ask her if she "needs" a property like this? 8 car garage? 8?!? I mean, how can anyone say someone having an 8 car garage is a blessing and not greed.

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matt. 6:24

 

[znr]

You also have no idea what Joyce teaches. Posting a huge photo of her alledged assets that you swiped off the internet proves nothing. I'm going to file you into the has no clue bin along with TheyCallMeDave, who is as clueless here as you, with one caveat - he's being a bit long winded about it and, while you're just silly.

Now, you're both my brothers and I love you, but you are both, sadly, misinformed, by lack of research into this woman's life. Research does not include locating photos and posting them as evidence that Joyce is a false teacher.

You look at her fruits? How hard? Have you bothered to actually listen to what she says, what she teaches? Where most of her money goes? do you actually KNOW what she believes? (right off the top of your head - no googling allowed). Sadly, bro - I know you don't know the answers to these questions. Most people who slam her are in the same boat as you.

TheyCallMeDave, who I love as a brother because God helps me love you...this is about Joyce Meyer, not TBN - or what you think about TBN. Rather than slam TBN, who I know very little about actually - and honestly I don't need to read your negative opinion about people I don't know. Please at least stay on topic. I'm going to guess you too have not heard Joyce's teachings, and have no idea what she really believes.

Back to you, fuji, who I love - you ask if she lives what she preaches? Find out. Find out for yourself.

I bet it feels good to have this house and money. I look at the fruits of every teacher, are they living a life that they preach?

I would love to meet Joyce and ask her if she "needs" a property like this? 8 car garage? 8?!? I mean, how can anyone say someone having an 8 car garage is a blessing and not greed.

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matt. 6:24

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

You also have no idea what Joyce teaches. Posting a huge photo of her alledged assets that you swiped off the internet proves nothing. I'm going to file you into the has no clue bin along with TheyCallMeDave, who is as clueless here as you, with one caveat - he's being a bit long winded about it and, while you're just silly.

Now, you're both my brothers and I love you, but you are both, sadly, misinformed, by lack of research into this woman's life. Research does not include locating photos and posting them as evidence that Joyce is a false teacher.

You look at her fruits? How hard? Have you bothered to actually listen to what she says, what she teaches? Where most of her money goes? do you actually KNOW what she believes? (right off the top of your head - no googling allowed). Sadly, bro - I know you don't know the answers to these questions. Most people who slam her are in the same boat as you.

TheyCallMeDave, who I love as a brother because God helps me love you...this is about Joyce Meyer, not TBN - or what you think about TBN. Rather than slam TBN, who I know very little about actually - and honestly I don't need to read your negative opinion about people I don't know. Please at least stay on topic. I'm going to guess you too have not heard Joyce's teachings, and have no idea what she really believes.

Back to you, fuji, who I love - you ask if she lives what she preaches? Find out. Find out for yourself.

We love you too, Zeena. But if you really want to know the truth , then youll choose to look into it much deeper ..and youll find that we are correct. It blew me away too at one point in my Christian Walk to think someone as nice as Joel Osteen could often teach something counter to the Bible. Whats even worse than that, is on www.youtube.com Joel wont tell a Talk Host that Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven..not even after being prodded by the Host. And zeena, i listen to Joel and Joyce alot and have done for many years, but i listen to them to catch them spewing forth Word of Faith teachings that differ from the Bible. Other than that, they are both good motivational Speakers that makes you feel delightful.

Regards.

 

[fuji]

We love you too, Zeena. But if you really want to know the truth , then youll choose to look into it much deeper ..and youll find that we are correct. It blew me away too at one point in my Christian Walk to think someone as nice as Joel Osteen could often teach something counter to the Bible. Whats even worse than that, is on www.youtube.com Joel wont tell a Talk Host that Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven..not even after being prodded by the Host. And zeena, i listen to Joel and Joyce alot and have done for many years, but i listen to them to catch them spewing forth Word of Faith teachings that differ from the Bible. Other than that, they are both good motivational Speakers that makes you feel delightful.

Regards.

I agree with Dave on this one zeener.

We both love you, but I always believe greed is the root of all evil.

If Jesus wasn't a homeless man, but had millions and bought his mother and father a new house, new horses, new clothing, new everything and said they were "blessings", I dont think that would sit well with me or most Christians.

Also you never answered my question about the 8 car garage...

And someone that has worked in t.v, I know a show only stays on the air if it "makes money" for the broadcaster.

 

[znr]

It's zeener, TheyCallMeDave, not Zeena.

I have looked at her ministry closely, in fact I've heard nearly all her teachings. If you were being more honest here you'd see that my objection to your spouting off mere opinion that isn't based on facts is actually evidence that I know what I'm talking about. I can tell, however, that you have not done your research into this woman's ministry, because you do not know what she believes; she being Joyce Meyer, not some other ministry you keep bringing up as a means to deflect from the discussion. We are not discussing Joel - I haven't brought him up. I don't know ANYTHING about Joel - so I've chosen to keep my yap sealed and I have rejected everyone elses opinion OF him until I have the time to find out for MYSELF. I can see that you have no real insight into the ministry of Joyce Meyer - I can see that you have never so much as listened to her teach, and I can see that you're trying to lump all preachers you think are "false" into the same bin here in this discussion, which I refuse to do. Again, how many teachings have you heard from Joyce Meyer? That's what I thought. Few to none.

"but i listen to them to catch them spewing forth Word of Faith teachings that differ from the Bible."

You've listened to Joyce? She is anything but make you feel delightful. You obviously have not listened to her teach. If God choose a master drill sergeant to drill the importance of renewing the mind on God's word, it's Joyce's calling. There is ZERO feel good about this.

Anyway my brother from another mother, I love you. You are wrong, but I love you.

We love you too, Zeena. But if you really want to know the truth , then youll choose to look into it much deeper ..and youll find that we are correct. It blew me away too at one point in my Christian Walk to think someone as nice as Joel Osteen could often teach something counter to the Bible. Whats even worse than that, is on www.youtube.com Joel wont tell a Talk Host that Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven..not even after being prodded by the Host. And zeena, i listen to Joel and Joyce alot and have done for many years, but i listen to them to catch them spewing forth Word of Faith teachings that differ from the Bible. Other than that, they are both good motivational Speakers that makes you feel delightful.

Regards.

 

[znr]

Agreement doesn't prove anything. So I'm not swayed at all by that. And, as I have said, neither you nor Dave has lifted a finger to actually learn about Joyce and her ministry. If you had, you'd know she's not a greedy woman. You would know WHERE her money goes and where her heart is. You would know exactly WHAT she believes and teaches on. But you don't. Because you're opting out of fact finding and settling for heresay.

I agree with Dave on this one zeener.

We both love you, but I always believe greed is the root of all evil.

If Jesus wasn't a homeless man, but had millions and bought his mother and father a new house, new horses, new clothing, new everything and said they were "blessings", I dont think that would sit well with me or most Christians.

Also you never answered my question about the 8 car garage...

 

[christ disciple]

Is this Idolatry? Wanting to play the Piano, then Write, and Dance or Contortion? Would I be making myself into an Idol for this?
Anyways, someone pls let me know, cuase I like to do those things, it's what keeps me from being bored, but sometimes I have a feeling that thease things are of my own plans and not God's, but then again, today I heard that any dream you have is a vision from God and that I should try to make it come true. It was in the Joel O steen book. (I declare) and so does Joyce Meyers, she talks about fallowing your dreams too. But I don't know. I've probably asked this question, but I need more assurance about whether or not it's ok. thanks.

Just a thought, What is at the heart of all idolatry?

How does this compare with Love? (1 Cor 13:4-7)

What is your desire? (Ps. 37:4)

 

[znr]

You refuse to research someone but will continue to slam her, and now you want to play footsies with me under the table over an 8 car garage.

No. Just more deflection on your part.

I agree with Dave on this one zeener.

We both love you, but I always believe greed is the root of all evil.

If Jesus wasn't a homeless man, but had millions and bought his mother and father a new house, new horses, new clothing, new everything and said they were "blessings", I dont think that would sit well with me or most Christians.

Also you never answered my question about the 8 car garage...

And someone that has worked in t.v, I know a show only stays on the air if it "makes money" for the broadcaster.

 

[Pal Handy]

I don't care if Joyce Meyers lives in a mansion.
God bless her as she spend millions to reach people around the world
to give the food, medical care, education and the gospel so who
cares if she lives in a cardboard box or 3/4 of million dollar home.

Joyce brings messages that people need to hear that bring them out of bondage and into the light and liberty of Christ.

Jesus said it best to those sanctimonious religious leaders
who judge all by their own insatiable false judgements that cut
all others down as they exalt their own piety and virtue while
their hearts are far from God and their desire is for power and
prestige for themselves and not for God.

Matthew 11
Jesus our Lord speaking...
“To what can I compare this generation?
They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
“‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,
‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’
But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”


Joyce Meyers has the fruit of the spirit in her life and she has given herself to
God in Christ and names Jesus Christ as her Lord as she
tells everyone that they too can come closer to Him and find Him to be their
best friend and that His friendship can transform their bodies, minds and souls.

Thank God for her teaching that lifts people out of the power of the pharisees and
lifts them into the presense of a loving and willing God who delights in moving in the lives of His children.

Joyce is more Christlike than those who defame her, denounce her
and judge her falsely without considering the fact that God has blessed
her and given her a place in the body of Christ to preach the gospel
of power and action that transforms those who are held in bondage.

I recommend many of her books because no one else has written in
depth on the topics she deals with.

She has experience the depths of abuse, rejection and failure so who better to
write about God's ability to take a person from sack cloth and ashes and clothe them
in the garments of praise, adoration and restoration.

I don't care how much her home is worth, her life, books and teachings have helped
millions to come into the love and restoration of a mighty God who can heal, deliver and
restore the broken and bruised souls of this world as she points them to Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[znr]

I almost fell out of my chair in shock and awe; we agree on something. Having seen your name logged in here, I knew you'd post this, which saved me the trouble, frankly. Thanks.

I don't care if Joyce Meyers lives in a mansion.
God bless her as she spend millions to reach people around the world
to give the food, medical care, education and the gospel so who
cares if she lives in a cardboard box or 3/4 of million dollar home.

Joyce brings messages that people need to hear that bring them out of bondage and into the light and liberty of Christ.

Jesus said it best to those sanctimonious religious leaders
who judge all by their own insatiable false judgements that cut
all others down as they exalt their own piety and virtue while
their hearts are far from God and their desire is for power and
prestige is for themselves and not God.

Matthew 11
Jesus our Lord speaking...
“To what can I compare this generation?
They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:
“‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say,
‘He has a demon.’

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,
‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’
But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”


Joyce Meyers has the fruit of the spirit in her life and she has given herself to
God in Christ and names Jesus Christ as her Lord as she
tells everyone they can come closer to Him and find Him to be their
best friend and that His friendship can transform their bodies, minds and souls.

Thank God for her teaching that lifts people out of the power of the pharisees and
lifts them into the presense of a loving and willing God who delights in moving in the lives of His children.

Joyce is more Christlike than those who defame her, denounce her
and judge her falsely without considering the fact that God has blessed
her and given her a place in the body of Christ to preach the gospel
of power and action that transforms those who are held in bondage.

I recommend many of her books because no one else has written in
depth on the topics she deals with.

She has experience the depths of abuse, rejection and failure so who better to
write about God's ability to take from sack cloth and ashes and clothe her in garments
of praise, adoration and restoration.

I don't care how much her home is worth, her life, books and teachings have helped
millions to come into the love and restoration of a mighty God who cane heal, deliver and
restore the broken and bruised souls of this world as she points them to Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[fuji]

I don't care if Joyce Meyers lives in a mansion.
God bless her as she spend millions to reach people around the world
to give the food, medical care, education and the gospel so who
cares if she lives in a cardboard box or 3/4 of million dollar home...

So she openly shows people that she is giving money to the poor, but still keeps millions? I think you just made her sound worse...

But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Matt. 6:3-4

I still never got an answer for the 8 car garage...

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” Mark 10:25

But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 1 Tim. 6:9-12

 

[Girder of Loins]

Wow. Are we really going to slam fellow brothers and sisters in the faith? Why do we get so upset over them? Joyce Meyers and Joel Osteen both preach WOF(listening to one of her teachings right now), BUT, I won't slam them. I'll slam the WOF movement all I want, but don't judge them. Judge what they preach. Bless Joel and Joyce for bringing people to Christ, don't curse them for teaching a little flawed theology. Who doesn't? No one has perfect doctrine.

 

[fuji]

Anyways, this is just my opinion on t.v evangelists in general.

Going for a smoke to take the edge off, so see you guys later

 

[fuji]

Wow. Are we really going to slam fellow brothers and sisters in the faith? Why do we get so upset over them? Joyce Meyers and Joel Osteen both preach WOF(listening to one of her teachings right now), BUT, I won't slam them. I'll slam the WOF movement all I want, but don't judge them. Judge what they preach. Bless Joel and Joyce for bringing people to Christ, don't curse them for teaching a little flawed theology. Who doesn't? No one has perfect doctrine.

I love slamming them.

If I am on t.v, famous, have tons of money and twist the bible a bit, I want you to give me some criticism. I am just a person after all.

Also what is with this "I am famous and have brought more people to Christ than you will in a lifetime" thing? Since when did counting how many people someone brings to Christ something to show off to others? I have only brought 3, so I guess God doesn't love me as much?

I'm sorry, but this whole thing just makes me laugh. I feel like I am the only one that sees through these ministries or something.

 

[fuji]

Ok now im off

 

[Pal Handy]

So she openly shows people that she is giving money to the poor, but still keeps millions? I think you just made her sound worse...

But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. Matt. 6:3-4

I still never got an answer for the 8 car garage...

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” Mark 10:25

But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 1 Tim. 6:9-12

What are you doing for God?
How about you give up smoking and donate the money to the poor.

Joyce never desired to become rich but to preach the gospel against all odds and
many wrote her off, denounced her and used scripture to beat her over the head with as
they said that a woman should not be preaching and teaching.

It is so easy for us to lump people into a catagory and write them off
even though we know nothing of their heart or God's call on their lives.

I do not like many TV evagelist but I do not slam them all because many
have done God's work in reaching the whole earth with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I do not think we should denouce or judge those that God has clearly
given a place in this world to preach the gospel.

Paul said it best...
Philippians 1
15 Some, it is true, [actually] preach Christ (the Messiah) [for no better reason than] out
of envy and rivalry (party spirit), but others are doing so out of a loyal spirit and goodwill.

16 The latter [proclaim Christ] out of love, because they recognize and know that I am
[providentially] put here for the defense of the good news (the Gospel).

17 But the former preach Christ out of a party spirit, insincerely [out of no pure motive,
but thinking to annoy me], supposing they are making my bondage more bitter and my
chains more galling.

18 But what does it matter, so long as either way, whether in pretense
[for personal ends] or in all honesty [for the furtherance of the Truth],
Christ is being proclaimed?
And in that I [now] rejoice, yes, and I shall rejoice [hereafter] also.

 

[HIS Geeky Girl]

This is so off topic... I feel so bad for the OP, I hope she doesn't have to read through all this arguing in order to find answers to her questions.

 

[fuji]

This is so off topic... I feel so bad for the OP, I hope she doesn't have to read through all this arguing in order to find answers to her questions.