Is this a real problem?

jayem

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I should know better than to listen to talk radio, but occaisionally, I tune in a local call-in show on the way home. A guy was on complaining that he thinks Christmas is being increasingly diminished in modern society. His example: signs in stores and malls that used to say "Merry Christmas," now say "Season's Greetings." The greeters in Wal-Mart say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." He believes there's even less non-religious decoration, such as wreaths, lights, Santa, elves, or reindeer figures. He says it's an sign of how creeping secularization and political correctness is destroying Christian values.

Anyone agree with this? I think it's hugely over-reacting to a perception I'm not sure is valid. I'm a non-believer, but I'm certainly not offended by seeing a Merry Christmas sign. Let's face it, we all know Christmas isn't originally a Christian holiday. It was a Roman winter solstice celebration that was adopted by the early church. The NT says nothing about celebrating Jesus's birthday, whenever that is. And commercialization pretty much overwhelmed any religious significance of Christmas a long time ago.

But I also wonder, even if his observation is true, why would this be a problem? If an individual Christian is strong in his faith, and observes the religious nature of the holiday, why would he need validation by signs and displays in stores and streets? Does it really harm his belief if all of society doesn't celebrate Christmas the way he does?
 

loriersea

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Personally, I think that is the kind of problem you want to have. ;) I mean, seriously, if your "persecution" consists of store clerks cheerfully saying "Happy Holidays" to you, you are pretty darn lucky.

I think the entire idea of complaining about this is absurd. If someone wishes you well, then you should be thankful, and wish them well in return. It is beyond self-centered to pout because someone didn't offer you good wishes in exactly the way you'd like them to have offered them.
 
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TeddyKGB

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Yeah, because if too many stores stop putting up explicitly Christian decorations, there is a real chance we will all forget why students get two weeks off of school and why we blow our Christmas bonuses on sweaters for our cousins.
 
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OhhJim

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Believe it or not, there are a lot of Christians who think this is persecution, and is a sign of the wickedness of America. Seriously, when 2 out of 3,945,128,934 people say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", it's all over for America. God will destroy us for our wicked ways.
 
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wildthing

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i never really give it much thought...all i know is the commerial aspect of the holiday is out control christmas trees up after Holloween, extended store hours. Just my view is that the commericl holiday sucks, Really am bored with the whole thing, but I think it is imporant to remember what the season means. God gave us a great gift, his son... As a christian i think it's more important today then any time in the last few years that we go out and share a little of ourseleves. Go and do mission in the city, find a neigbor who is alone invite them for dinner (hey do it year round if you can) help someone be a blessing to your fellow man.

Sorry about the rant.
 
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Uphill Battle

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TeddyKGB said:
Yeah, because if too many stores stop putting up explicitly Christian decorations, there is a real chance we will all forget why students get two weeks off of school and why we blow our Christmas bonuses on sweaters for our cousins.

a very good point. (pardon me whilie I pause in shock that I agree with Teddy on something......... ok, over it.)

there is some small validity in the claim however... Christmas has been a "Christ" holiday for a very very long time. In Canada for sure, there has been a large movement to try and de-Christ Christmas. Mostly from Muslim/Sik quarters, not neccessarily Athiest quarters (as I think the person the OP was refering to is claiming.) It strikes me as ironic that they don't mind taking the time off, but they try and have any reference to Christ removed. (I wonder if we can have a Chistidan instead of Ramadan, and get some time off for it....) for instance, schools call it Xmas... not for abbreviation purposes, mind you. It got so bad that the Toronto city councilors had to go to a vote on renaming the Christmas tree a holiday tree. :sick: No, I don't think it's a major deal. You don't celebrate Christ, I don't expect you to celebrate "Christ"mas. But when you are going so far as to try and tear it apart, and make it something different, it crosses SOME line.
 
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Uphill Battle

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TeddyKGB said:
I don't think it's so much trying to turn Christmas into something completely different, more like trying to make the time of year more inclusive.

it's never been exclusive though. (or at least, it shouldn't be.) I don't expect you to worship Christ at Christmas, I just don't want it changed to suit the "needs" of others when it is an established Christian obervance. If Christmas is about Santa, or any other reason, so be it, that's the business of whomever is celebrating it. But forcing us to use terms like "happy holidays" instead of wishing a merry Christmas (which it IS for the record) seems a bit much. (we are technically not allowed to wish people where I work a Merry Christmas, for fear of offending non-Christians.) doesn't that seem over the top?
 
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TeddyKGB

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Uphill Battle said:
it's never been exclusive though. (or at least, it shouldn't be.) I don't expect you to worship Christ at Christmas, I just don't want it changed to suit the "needs" of others when it is an established Christian obervance. If Christmas is about Santa, or any other reason, so be it, that's the business of whomever is celebrating it. But forcing us to use terms like "happy holidays" instead of wishing a merry Christmas (which it IS for the record) seems a bit much. (we are technically not allowed to wish people where I work a Merry Christmas, for fear of offending non-Christians.) doesn't that seem over the top?
Yes, it does. But privately-owned businesses do whatever they can to avoid offending potential customers, always have, always will.

O'Reilly devoted an entire radio segment to bashing Target for going with "happy holidays." Both sides are guilty of overreacting.
 
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Uphill Battle

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TeddyKGB said:
Yes, it does. But privately-owned businesses do whatever they can to avoid offending potential customers, always have, always will.

O'Reilly devoted an entire radio segment to bashing Target for going with "happy holidays." Both sides are guilty of overreacting.


careful Teddy... we've agreed twice in one thread.... is this the twilight zone? :p

reps though!
 
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trunks2k

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Uphill Battle said:
it's never been exclusive though. (or at least, it shouldn't be.) I don't expect you to worship Christ at Christmas, I just don't want it changed to suit the "needs" of others when it is an established Christian obervance.

But Christmas isn't the only holiday in December. You've got New Years, Hanuka (spelled incredibly wrong), Kwanzica, and I think an Islamic holiday in there as well. "Happy Holidays" is more accurate.
 
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OhhJim

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Uphill Battle said:
But forcing us to use terms like "happy holidays" instead of wishing a merry Christmas (which it IS for the record) seems a bit much. (we are technically not allowed to wish people where I work a Merry Christmas, for fear of offending non-Christians.) doesn't that seem over the top?

You can always get a different job. It's a free country, right?

My low-down, rotten company won't let me curse at the customers, or proposition the sales girls, or flip off the CEO, even though he deserves it. Isn't that a restriction of my rights? God forbid your employer should regulate your behavior at work!
 
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HeyHomie

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I think it's just a PC-minded, cowardly attempt to avoid recognizing the holiday we're all celebrating, in an attempt to not offend the one person out of 100 who might get offended by the word "Christmas."

If you're an atheist, do you really get offended when someone says "Merry Christmas" to you? Or if you're a Jew or Muslim or whatever? If you don't celebrate Christmas, then there's really no point in getting upset over it. I've never in my life had a Jew say "Happy Chanukah" to me, but if one did, I wouldn't be offended. Live and let live, and all that.

That's why I get annoyed (not offended, just annoyed) over "Holiday" trees, "Holiday" sales, etc. It's CHRISTMAS. Plain and simple. No need to try to deny it or hem and haw about it, just admit it and move on. BFD.
 
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Uphill Battle

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trunks2k said:
But Christmas isn't the only holiday in December. You've got New Years, Hanuka (spelled incredibly wrong), Kwanzica, and I think an Islamic holiday in there as well. "Happy Holidays" is more accurate.


not really. I wish my Jewish friends a happy Hannukah... those who celebrate Kwanza a happy Kwanza, etc....
 
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Uphill Battle

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OhhJim said:
You can always get a different job. It's a free country, right?

My low-down, rotten company won't let me curse at the customers, or proposition the sales girls, or flip off the CEO, even though he deserves it. Isn't that a restriction of my rights? God forbid your employer should regulate your behavior at work!


wow... interesting stance. Those don't even come CLOSE to equating.
 
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