Is there a difference between Homosexual Identity and sexual acts?

kagol

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Hi All :wave:

I have read through here with interest.

I agree that the eros love felt is the same whoever may be feeling it.

I agree that there is a difference between the identity and the act.

However, what I have difficulty with is; Does the feeling justify the act?

Is it not the same for a married heterosexual who has those feelings for someone other than his wife? Or someone who cannot have a child? Or an unmarried heterosexual?

Is this not where the choice comes? Do I act on my feelings or do I act on the Word of God?

Is this not why we have the Word? So that when we are faced with choices, however difficult, we are to choose what God says over what we think/feel or understand.

I don't think that God wants us to live our lives depressed because we desire something we can't have. I think He wants us to depend on Him for everything.
He is:-
El-Shaddai -- The God Who is Sufficient for the Needs of His People
Jehovah-Jireh -- The Lord our Provider
Jehovah-Shalom -- The Lord our Peace
I am the LORD thy God which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Surely it is His desire that we look to Him to allow Him to be all those things, and more, to us. In doing so we find that in time we have no feeling of lack as He fills us with His desires and thus meets all our needs.

I am not saying this is easy by any means. That is why 'the road is narrow'
 
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DMagoh

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I agree that there is a difference between the identity and the act.

However, what I have difficulty with is; Does the feeling justify the act?

Is it not the same for a married heterosexual who has those feelings for someone other than his wife? Or someone who cannot have a child? Or an unmarried heterosexual?

Is this not where the choice comes? Do I act on my feelings or do I act on the Word of God?

Is this not why we have the Word? So that when we are faced with choices, however difficult, we are to choose what God says over what we think/feel or understand....

Very well put. :thumbsup:
 
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HaloHope

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Is it not the same for a married heterosexual who has those feelings for someone other than his wife? Or someone who cannot have a child? Or an unmarried heterosexual?


First off can I say I appreciate a post like this that isn't brimming with hostility but is rather asking for discussion. Thank you. I do not think it is the same to ask a homosexual person to abstain as it is for the categories listed above. The people listed above all have the oppourtunity at least (under the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible) to be with someone they love. Those who condemn homosexuality through the Bible are telling gay people that they can never, ever, ever experience romantic love in their lives with the people they feel romantic love for. That as far as I'm concerned is wrong, and I feel God would not condemn the many gay people around the world to such a thing.

Is this not where the choice comes? Do I act on my feelings or do I act on the Word of God?


When you don't believe your feelings go against the word of God as I firmly believe here then that isn't something that crosses my mind.


Is this not why we have the Word? So that when we are faced with choices, however difficult, we are to choose what God says over what we think/feel or understand.


The problems arise here when you have many different interpretations of the Bible. As shown on this forum and just about on every other forum on this website there are mant debates on what the Bible actually says on certain matters.

I don't think that God wants us to live our lives depressed because we desire something we can't have. I think He wants us to depend on Him for everything.
He is:-
El-Shaddai -- The God Who is Sufficient for the Needs of His People
Jehovah-Jireh -- The Lord our Provider
Jehovah-Shalom -- The Lord our Peace
I am the LORD thy God which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

God does bring many, many wonderful things into our lives. But he does not provide romantic love. If he did there wouldn't be such a thing or need for sexuality on earth.


I am not saying this is easy by any means. That is why 'the road is narrow'

I am one of the people who believes the road would be a lot less narrow than it is if Christians were more loving, excepting and tolerating of everyone.
 
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kagol

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You're welcome. Discussion is what I came here for. I think unless we discuss we can become insular and bigoted.

I do not think it is the same to ask a homosexual person to abstain as it is for the categories listed above. The people listed above all have the oppourtunity at least (under the fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible) to be with someone they love.

I realise it is not exactly the same, but it is difficult to find an exact comparison, as it is for many other issues.

What I was trying to say was that, the fact that any of these examples call for self-denial puts them in the same place as far as biblical principal. A woman who desires a child with all of her being, should she go for fertility treatment, surrogacy, sperm donor etc. or should she accept that she will never, ever experiance that and trust God when He says that He can provide ALL she needs. This may not be in the form of a child, it may be in removing or replacing the desire with something else. Trusting Him not to leave her in despair/depression.

When you don't believe your feelings go against the word of God as I firmly believe here then that isn't something that crosses my mind.

I can understand that's how it is for you, but I don't understand how you arrive at that conclusion. Could you please explain it for me?

God does bring many, many wonderful things into our lives. But he does not provide romantic love. If he did there wouldn't be such a thing or need for sexuality on earth.
italics mine

I can't agree with you here. God can do/provide anything. This goes with my answer to previous quote.

I am one of the people who believes the road would be a lot less narrow than it is if Christians were more loving, excepting and tolerating of everyone.

Sadly I have to agree there. Having said that however much they add to the narrowess without them it would still be narrow and the most difficult way.

Let me just say on a personal note I wouldn't want you to live feeling unfulfilled and depressed. I would love to be proven wrong in my understanding of scripture. It would sure make for a lot less unhappy people.

 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Halohope,
And this is exactly what Ive been talking about on these forums lately.

Most humans can't cope with celibacy. They can't cope with a life alone. I salute those who are happy with the choice of being celibate if thats what they want, but for most people it isn't an option.
Sorry, but how can we be lonely if we have friends? I am talking about marriage. Besides Jesus gives us a spiritual model of fellowship on the cross when He tells John 19:25-27 and also Mark 3:32. Christians cant be lonely if they are living a Christians. My wife and I are in fellowship with single Christians and I as a single before I was married was in fellowship with other Christians.
I can not believe or accept Jesus would condemn me and other homosexual men and women to a life without intimacy with the people we want relationships with.
Jesus doesnt condemn you to a life without such a sinful intimacy He saves you from it. But if you dont believe this you obviously are a non-believer in this.

If I had to be alone, and never be with another woman I would always be depressed, as a big part of what would make me as a person complete would be missing.
What do you mean by always with another woman? Do you mean sexually? Jesus teaching shows us that single people are not missing anything, the fullness is in Christ, not sex.
 
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HaloHope

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You're welcome. Discussion is what I came here for. I think unless we discuss we can become insular and bigoted.


Well said :)


I realise it is not exactly the same, but it is difficult to find an exact comparison, as it is for many other issues.

What I was trying to say was that, the fact that any of these examples call for self-denial puts them in the same place as far as biblical principal. A woman who desires a child with all of her being, should she go for fertility treatment, surrogacy, sperm donor etc. or should she accept that she will never, ever experiance that and trust God when He says that He can provide ALL she needs. This may not be in the form of a child, it may be in removing or replacing the desire with something else. Trusting Him not to leave her in despair/depression.

Well I do think if someone really wants a child they should try and get one of the things mentioned to address the matter or perhaps adopt? Its a situation that can be addressed without getting depressed forever.

As far as God removing the feeling of desire to be with someone with love I dont think he ever does. Because I don't think he needs too. My posts here are entirely a hypothetical of the fundamentalist viewpoint of Chrisitanity. I'm not going to live my life alone because I have the woman I love in my life and hopefully will never lose her.

Needing a partner is innate to most (not all humans) and as a result I dont think it is something God removes. He may comfort the lonely for sure, but he does not provide the romantic embrace of a partner many people need.


I can understand that's how it is for you, but I don't understand how you arrive at that conclusion. Could you please explain it for me?


Sure, I just don't see condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible whatsoever. I do see a bunch of verses taken out of context by people, but not condemnation. That said this is my opinion and those who feel the bible is anti-gay are entitled to that opinion too.


I can't agree with you here. God can do/provide anything. This goes with my answer to previous quote.


I dont feel God provides things he dosent need to. He comforts us in sorrow, but humans are designed and meant by God to have romantic feelings for other humans. Not God. Which is why he dosent provide this. "cannot" is perhaps the wrong word. I think "will not" is the correct term here.


Sadly I have to agree there. Having said that however much they add to the narrowess without them it would still be narrow and the most difficult way.


I believe that we as Christians should do our best to open it wider. I see a lot of my gay freinds firmly believing that God dosent want anything to do with them because of what other Christians say. NOT what they see in the Bible. This saddens me as I think they can come to God, have loving monogamous relationships with those of the same gender and be Christians. Be saved.

Let me just say on a personal note I wouldn't want you to live feeling unfulfilled and depressed. I would love to be proven wrong in my understanding of scripture. It would sure make for a lot less unhappy people.

Thank you :) . Despite our different views you are clearly a very good person to express your opinion in such a pleasent way. It makes me want to actually listen to you and address your posts because your not screaming "filthy gay" like some posters here.

I believe God never wants his children to be unhappy which is why he does not condemn homosexuals to a life of lonely celibacy. Homosexuality is the one thing some Christians say is a sin that dosent hurt anyone. Its just love. To label it a sin makes no sense (someone will leap in im sure with the "But gays ARE AIDS" rubbish but I shall ignore that inevitable response this time ;) )

Thank you for such a good and thought provoking post. Reps.
 
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HaloHope

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Dear Halohope,
Sorry, but how can we be lonely if we have friends? I am talking about marriage. Besides Jesus gives us a spiritual model of fellowship on the cross when He tells John 19:25-27 and also Mark 3:32. Christians cant be lonely if they are living a Christians. My wife and I are in fellowship with single Christians and I as a single before I was married was in fellowship with other Christians.

Most humans need something beyond just friendship. It is a basic human want to need romance (not nessecerily sex, but romance).

Jesus doesnt condemn you to a life without such a sinful intimacy He saves you from it. But if you dont believe this you obviously are a non-believer in this.

I am a non believer to your interpretation of the bible. Not to the bible itself. Jesus dosent save me from what I dont need to be saved from.

What do you mean by always with another woman? Do you mean sexually? Jesus teaching shows us that single people are not missing anything, the fullness is in Christ, not sex.

I meant in a romantic relationship that may or may not involve that. Romance is the key here not what people do in the bedroom. Single people wouldnt look for a partner unless they wanted romance, as said above its what most humans want.
 
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DMagoh

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...I just don't see condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible whatsoever. I do see a bunch of verses taken out of context by people, but not condemnation. That said this is my opinion and those who feel the bible is anti-gay are entitled to that opinion too...


I have yet to see even one non-homosexual Bible scholar that says that Romans 1:27 does NOT condemn homosexual acts. Even the great liberal scholar Tony Campolo says that he has no explanation for Romans 1:27 other than it appears to condemn homosexuality.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.Romans 1:27

This verse pretty clearly says...
  • They abandoned natural relations with women;
  • They are inflamed in lust for other men;
  • They have commited indecent acts with other men; and
  • They will receive the due penalty for their perversion.
 
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HaloHope

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I have yet to see even one non-homosexual Bible scholar that says that Romans 1:27 does NOT condemn homosexual acts. Even the great liberal scholar Tony Campolo says that he has no explanation for Romans 1:27 other than it appears to condemn homosexuality.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.Romans 1:27

This verse pretty clearly says...
  • They abandoned natural relations with women;
  • They are inflamed in lust for other men;
  • They have commited indecent acts with other men; and
  • They will receive the due penalty for their perversion.

To me you see it dosen't. It never had, even when I was younger and read it. No amount of people telling me I'm wrong on here will convince me otherwise :) . Im sure God will tell me one day, but seeing as God is love and I love my partner with all my heart, I cant see it being an issue.
 
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GwynApNudd

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Dear Halohope,
Sorry, but how can we be lonely if we have friends? I am talking about marriage. Besides Jesus gives us a spiritual model of fellowship on the cross when He tells John 19:25-27 and also Mark 3:32. Christians cant be lonely if they are living a Christians. My wife and I are in fellowship with single Christians and I as a single before I was married was in fellowship with other Christians.
Jesus doesnt condemn you to a life without such a sinful intimacy He saves you from it. But if you dont believe this you obviously are a non-believer in this.

What do you mean by always with another woman? Do you mean sexually? Jesus teaching shows us that single people are not missing anything, the fullness is in Christ, not sex.

There is a huge difference between being lonely and being celibate.

Yes, if we have friends, we need not be lonely. But that is not the point.

Even Paul recognized that it takes a special gift to be celibate as he was. (1 Cor 7:9) And Jesus considered those with that gift to be a new kind of spiritual "eunuch." (Matt 19:12).

That gift is rare. If they do not have that gift, you are claiming that those with a sexual orientation different from yours are condemned to a lifetime of misery (Paul calls it burning) in a an attempt at celibacy that is almost certain to eventually fail*, or in grevous sin in that failure. How do you reconcile this with 1 Cor 10:13?

*Your (heterosexual) single friends, for the most part, are not planning on remaining single and celibate all their lives. They are merely waiting for God to show them the person He has chosen as their life-mate. Why is it different for gay Christians?
 
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HaloHope

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There is a huge difference between being lonely and being celibate.

Yes, if we have friends, we need not be lonely. But that is not the point.

Even Paul recognized that it takes a special gift to be celibate as he was. (1 Cor 7:9) And Jesus considered those with that gift to be a new kind of spiritual "eunuch." (Matt 19:12).

That gift is rare. If they do not have that gift, you are claiming that those with a sexual orientation different from yours are condemned to a lifetime of misery (Paul calls it burning) in a an attempt at celibacy that is almost certain to eventually fail*, or in grevous sin in that failure. How do you reconcile this with 1 Cor 10:13?

*Your (heterosexual) single friends, for the most part, are not planning on remaining single and celibate all their lives. They are merely waiting for God to show them the person He has chosen as their life-mate. Why is it different for gay Christians?

Thank you, you put this a lot better than I managed too.
 
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DMagoh

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I have yet to see even one non-homosexual Bible scholar that says that Romans 1:27 does NOT condemn homosexual acts. Even the great liberal scholar Tony Campolo says that he has no explanation for Romans 1:27 other than it appears to condemn homosexuality.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

This verse pretty clearly says...
  • They abandoned natural relations with women;
  • They are inflamed in lust for other men;
  • They have commited indecent acts with other men; and
  • They will receive the due penalty for their perversion.


To me you see it dosen't. It never had, even when I was younger and read it. No amount of people telling me I'm wrong on here will convince me otherwise :) .

So not even Biblical scholars...not conservative Biblical scholars, but LIBERAL ones! Tony Campolo is a very liberal Biblical scholar and in an interview with Sojouner's Magazine (a liberal Christian publication) he states...

"I believe that the Bible does not allow for same-gender sexual intercourse or marriage..."

AND

"...Romans 1:26-27 makes it clear that any homosexual sexual activity is contrary to what the Bible allows."


So basically, if no one can convince you otherwise, not even liberal Bible scholars, then that proves what Paul said when he warned Timothy about "itching ears" hearing what they wanted to hear, so they could go after their lusts...

3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NIV)


The King James says "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts..."
 
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HaloHope

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So not even Biblical scholars...not conservative Biblical scholars, but LIBERAL ones! Tony Campolo is a very liberal Biblical scholar and in an interview with Sojouner's Magazine (a liberal Christian publication) he states...

"I believe that the Bible does not allow for same-gender sexual intercourse or marriage..."

AND

"...Romans 1:26-27 makes it clear that any homosexual sexual activity is contrary to what the Bible allows."


So basically, if no one can convince you otherwise, not even liberal Bible scholars, then that proves what Paul said when he warned Timothy about "itching ears" hearing what they wanted to hear, so they could go after their lusts...

3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NIV)


The King James says "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts..."

Bad as it may sound (to you anyway). I don't really care what any biblical scholar has to say on the matter. I don't listen to humans I listen to God. I believe he has assured me he has no issue with sexuality, and if he does then I shall be the one to deal with it (but Im not in the least bit worried about that, as I have faith it will not happen).
 
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kagol

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Hi there HaloHope

Hope you've had a good day. :cool:

First I would like to tell you that your last comment made me shed a tear. To me underneath it was a lot of unnecessary pain that has been inflicted on you by other people, and that is very sad.

My husband and I were together for 28 years altogether, 3 yrs ago he left me. I was devastated, but apart from the obvious pain it caused me, there was an extra part to it that I had never imagined. The realisation that I would quite probably never have another person to hug me in that way, never to be able to kiss again, never be able to cuddle up on the sofa and watch tv, to share a thought, an idea, a worry. All these things and more. But what I found was that Jesus stepped in. He diminished certain :blush: physical needs greatly. He hurt with me and for me. He was there to share things with. I have also felt a physical hug from him, more than once.

Now ofcourse I have never felt romance towards Him and would never expect or want to, but I have felt overwhelming love from Him and towards Him. I agree that He has placed within all of us the need for this love, which leads to loving relationships. After all that is why He created us in the first place, to be able to share in that type of relationship with Him But I would not say that he placed in us a need for a romantic love, in the way that we understand romance.
I don't quite know how to express this in a cohesive way. Romance is very nice, but can be,and often is temporary. Love, true agape love, is eternal and completely fulfilling.

I am not saying any of this in realation to you and your girlfriend. What I am trying to express is that God is and has more for you than I think you see at the moment. It is in response to your comments that God will not do certain things. This seems to say that the understanding you have of Him has boundaries that need not be there.

I do not doubt the love you have for Him, or your relationship with Him. I just wanted to share this with you to encourage you see that He is maybe even more than what you see at the moment.

I could have tried to start debating the whole 'gay thing' but I have no doubt that you have 'been there and done that and even have the t-shirt' :sleep:

So I thought I would just share with you as I have enjoyed speaking with you.

:hug: for you and your girlfriend.

</IMG>
 
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HaloHope

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Hi there HaloHope

Hope you've had a good day. :cool:

First I would like to tell you that your last comment made me shed a tear. To me underneath it was a lot of unnecessary pain that has been inflicted on you by other people, and that is very sad.

My husband and I were together for 28 years altogether, 3 yrs ago he left me. I was devastated, but apart from the obvious pain it caused me, there was an extra part to it that I had never imagined. The realisation that I would quite probably never have another person to hug me in that way, never to be able to kiss again, never be able to cuddle up on the sofa and watch tv, to share a thought, an idea, a worry. All these things and more. But what I found was that Jesus stepped in. He diminished certain :blush: physical needs greatly. He hurt with me and for me. He was there to share things with. I have also felt a physical hug from him, more than once.

Now ofcourse I have never felt romance towards Him and would never expect or want to, but I have felt overwhelming love from Him and towards Him. I agree that He has placed within all of us the need for this love, which leads to loving relationships. After all that is why He created us in the first place, to be able to share in that type of relationship with Him But I would not say that he placed in us a need for a romantic love, in the way that we understand romance.
I don't quite know how to express this in a cohesive way. Romance is very nice, but can be,and often is temporary. Love, true agape love, is eternal and completely fulfilling.

I am not saying any of this in realation to you and your girlfriend. What I am trying to express is that God is and has more for you than I think you see at the moment. It is in response to your comments that God will not do certain things. This seems to say that the understanding you have of Him has boundaries that need not be there.

I do not doubt the love you have for Him, or your relationship with Him. I just wanted to share this with you to encourage you see that He is maybe even more than what you see at the moment.

I could have tried to start debating the whole 'gay thing' but I have no doubt that you have 'been there and done that and even have the t-shirt' :sleep:

So I thought I would just share with you as I have enjoyed speaking with you.

:hug: for you and your girlfriend.

</IMG>

Bless you!

That was a beautiful post, and I truly am very glad Jesus has been able to help you deal with the events of the past 3 years.

I truly do hope God reveals to me even more about himself, and as I Christian I hope my relationship with God continues to go from strength to strength. I truly do.

I have very much enjoyed speaking to you.

A lot of people here could learn from your truly Christ like example of dicussing things. Thank you :)
 
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[SIZE=-1]Bad as it may sound (to you anyway). I don't really care what any biblical scholar has to say on the matter. I don't listen to humans I listen to God. I believe he has assured me he has no issue with sexuality, and if he does then I shall be the one to deal with it (but Im not in the least bit worried about that, as I have faith it will not happen).[/SIZE]

There was a man who lived in a remote area. At one time it began to rain really hard. The road in front of his house began to be covered with water. Someone came by in a 4WD SUV and tried to take him to safety. He said, "No thanks, God will take care of me."

The water continued to rise until it completely covered the road and made it impassable. Someone came by in a boat and offered to take the man to safety. He said, "No thanks, God will take care of me."

The water continued to rise until the man had to climb on his roof to avoid drowning. A helicopter flew by and the pilot offered to fly him to safety. He said, "No thanks, God will take care of me."

He died, and in heaven he complained to God, "I thought you were going to take care of me." God answered, "I sent a SUV, a boat, and a helicopter. What more could I have done?"

I hope you are not on the roof, thinking everything is A-OK, waiting for a helicopter.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Halohope,
Most humans need something beyond just friendship. It is a basic human want to need romance (not necessarily sex, but romance).
Most yes but not all and it isnt necessarily a basic need. Many people who would like romance dont get the chance anyway, what do you propose ought to be done for them.

But my point is that everyone needs Jesus, and when one has Jesus as their greatest love they aren&#8217;t lonely
I am a non believer to your interpretation of the bible. Not to the bible itself. Jesus dosent save me from what I dont need to be saved from.
Yes of course that is obviously what it is, I believe Jesus saves us from sin, he doesn&#8217;t condemn, John 3:16, John 8 etc. and one of the sins is sex outside marriage including specifically same-sex sex, Matt 19, 1 Cor 6, Romans 1 etc. If you don&#8217;t believe that. that makes you a non-believer of that.
I meant in a romantic relationship that may or may not involve that. Romance is the key here not what people do in the bedroom. Single people wouldnt look for a partner unless they wanted romance, as said above its what most humans want.
I believe the Bible condemns sex outside marriage, not romance necessarily, but I would have thought sex was a part of romance.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear GwynApnudd,
There is a huge difference between being lonely and being celibate.

Yes, if we have friends, we need not be lonely. But that is not the point.
Sorry but I didnt make that point, Halohope did, I agree there is a difference, for Christians celibacy is without marriage (see Matt 19 & 1 Cor 7)
Even Paul recognized that it takes a special gift to be celibate as he was. (1 Cor 7:9) And Jesus considered those with that gift to be a new kind of spiritual "eunuch." (Matt 19:12).
This is true and Jesus alos gave that alternative when they grumbled about marriage having to be faithful.
That gift is rare. If they do not have that gift, you are claiming that those with a sexual orientation different from yours are condemned to a lifetime of misery (Paul calls it burning) in a an attempt at celibacy that is almost certain to eventually fail*, or in grevous sin in that failure. How do you reconcile this with 1 Cor 10:13?
No sexual orientation isnt something that Paul mentions, and Paul also writes at the start of that passage that although it is good not to marry but because there is so much sexual immorality around each man should have his own wife. You are now tallking about something completely different. But if you had read the previous chpater you will see that sex oustside marriage is not for God's purpose or believers, 1 Cor 6:9.
Your (heterosexual) single friends, for the most part, are not planning on remaining single and celibate all their lives. They are merely waiting for God to show them the person He has chosen as their life-mate. Why is it different for gay Christians?
If Christians are looking to same-sex relationships they are seeking something that is not Christian. The same would be for any sin.
as to 1 Cor 10:13, see that God knows we get tempted and God is faithful he provides a way out so we can stand up under it.

Sorry but if you dont believe pasages such as 1 Cor 6 and Romans 1 condemns same-sex sex why are you citing other passages for me to comment on?
 
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GwynApNudd

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Dear GwynApnudd,
Sorry but I didnt make that point, Halohope did, I agree there is a difference, for Christians celibacy is without marriage (see Matt 19 & 1 Cor 7)

I was responding to your statement: "Sorry, but how can we be lonely if we have friends?"

HaloHope had been speaking of needing an intimacy that goes beyond that which mere friends can provide. This was your response.

This is true and Jesus alos gave that alternative when they grumbled about marriage having to be faithful.

There is no substantial disagreement between us on this point.

No sexual orientation isnt something that Paul mentions, and Paul also writes at the start of that passage that although it is good not to marry but because there is so much sexual immorality around each man should have his own wife. You are now tallking about something completely different. But if you had read the previous chpater you will see that sex oustside marriage is not for God's purpose or believers, 1 Cor 6:9.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Paul said that if you can be celibate, that would be preferable. But, if you can't be celibate, it is better to marry than to burn.

You say that you have many single friends. But most of them will not remain celibate. They will marry when they find the right partner. This is in keeping with 1 Cor 7:9.

Paul wrote 1 Cor 7:9 because God does not give everyone the gift that He gave Paul, to become a "eunuch for the sake of the kingdom of God" (Matt 19:12)

You still seem, at least to my eyes, to be saying that this advice does not apply to gays. That they must continue to "burn."

If Christians are looking to same-sex relationships they are seeking something that is not Christian. The same would be for any sin.
as to 1 Cor 10:13, see that God knows we get tempted and God is faithful he provides a way out so we can stand up under it.

And yet, you say that the passage that provides that way out does not apply to gays

Sorry but if you dont believe pasages such as 1 Cor 6 and Romans 1 condemns same-sex sex why are you citing other passages for me to comment on?

There is a big difference between interpreting a passage differently and disbelieving it. Just because I believe that those particular verses are not a blanket condemnation of all possible same-sex relationships, does not mean either that I believe that they teach nothing, or that they can be ignored.

I believe those passages are part of the inspired word of God and that they hold important teachings. I just disagree with you about what, exactly, those teachings are.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear GwynApNudd,
I was responding to your statement: "Sorry, but how can we be lonely if we have friends?"
Yes I know but you also said loneliness and celibacy were not the same thing, I always knew that, it was Halohope who included it in the debate
There is no substantial disagreement between us on this point.
Ok so You agree Jesus countenances faithful marriage and for those who grumble about it having to be faithful, Jesus offers none at all, celibacy? Agreed?
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Paul said that if you can be celibate, that would be preferable. But, if you can't be celibate, it is better to marry than to burn.
Actually I can see what you are getting at but alas you are referring to something that isnt in the text. The text says be celibate but if you burn with passion get married. Its the same as Jesus the two options marriage or celibacy. But again as I said if you had read the previous chapter you will see that sex outside marriage is not for God's purpose or believers, 1 Cor 6:9. Thats why just the two options
You say that you have many single friends. But most of them will not remain celibate. They will marry when they find the right partner. This is in keeping with 1 Cor 7:9.
Yes but some wont and none who haven’t yet know.
You still seem, at least to my eyes, to be saying that this advice does not apply to gays. That they must continue to "burn."
yes of course this teaching applies to Christians, why would anyone who doesn’t believe want to follow it? But who do you mean by ‘gays’ there are Christians who have same-sex attraction who know that same-sex sex is error and seek to be celibate. Some of my single Christian friends may continue to burn and be unable to marry, but the joy of the Lord and His strength is allows us to overcome. As you posted from 1 Cor 10
And yet, you say that the passage that provides that way out does not apply to gays
It applies to Christians, why would anyone want to follow Jesus teaching who didn’t believe it, ‘straight’ or ‘gay’
There is a big difference between interpreting a passage differently and disbelieving it. Just because I believe that those particular verses are not a blanket condemnation of all possible same-sex relationships, does not mean either that I believe that they teach nothing, or that they can be ignored.
That doesn’t address my question, if I interpret the passages you cited to me as opposite to what you think they mean, how can they support what you think?
 
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