Is there a difference between Homosexual Identity and sexual acts?

BAFRIEND

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ROTFL. Thanks for this post...made my day...ROTFL
I notice that you, calvin96, have over forty posts and every single one of them except one has been on the homosexual forum and yet you are familiar enough with the control panel to hide all your general personal info such as your age, etc..

I probably had over 500 posts on my denominational forum before even discovering this forum. Only about 20-25% of my posts are in this homosexual debate forum.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I hope that as a new member that you will spend some time in your denominational forum trying to build kinship and community with your brothers and sisters in Christ. Travel around CF a bit and also stay here and offer your opinions that will be met with debate and respect.

But don't just spend all your time constipated with this forum. Peace brother.
 
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HaloHope

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Dear Halohope,
No I was just refering to the Christian understanding of love, 'agape'.
Brotherly love would be 'Phlieo' and agape in the Christian Biblical sense. (See John 21 in Greek.)
thats 'eros' which for Christians is ok within a man/woman marriage and error outside that including same-sex sex.

Again as I have stated many times in many threads, many Christians do not think that it is wrong to be in a same-sex relationship.

Whether you feel eros love between people of the same gender is wrong or not, my entire point was the feelings felt between a same gender couple who feel eros love for each other are EXACTLY THE SAME as when eros love is felt between an opposite sex couple. Many anti-gay people on this forum seem to believe that same gender eros love is nothing like the emotions they feel, when it is the same feeling they feel for their spouse.



Ps incidenatlly a homosexual man and a homosexual woman can get married, heterosexual and homosexual has nothing to do with 'agape' love.

I've noticed in a great many of your posts that you keep stating that gay men and gay women could marry someone of the same gender. Can I ask where this idea has derived from? If I was ever married to a man I would be depressed beyond words as I know for a fact he could never give me what I want in a relationship. I don't hate men, but a marriage to me at least requires a romantic love and that would never be able to manifest itself in a man for me.
 
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calvins96

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I notice that you, calvin96, have over forty posts and every single one of them except one has been on the homosexual forum and yet you are familiar enough with the control panel to hide all your general personal info such as your age, etc..

I probably had over 500 posts on my denominational forum before even discovering this forum. Only about 20-25% of my posts are in this homosexual debate forum.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I hope that as a new member that you will spend some time in your denominational forum trying to build kinship and community with your brothers and sisters in Christ. Travel around CF a bit and also stay here and offer your opinions that will be met with debate and respect.

But don't just spend all your time constipated with this forum. Peace brother.
New yes. Hiding my general info..no. I just didn't fill anything out. I am 34 years old, and live in Northern NJ. I'm also a memeber of the United Church of Christ, and have been so for quite awhile now. I was born/raised a Catholic however, and still hold to much of their beliefs. I'm a gay Christian, however, it is not what dictates my life...just a part of who I am, not who I am. I have visited numerous other sites, and haven't really posted much. These threads heat me under the collar, so yes, I do post mostly here. Anything else you'd care to know, simply ask. I will discuss with you whatever you would like.
 
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Mling

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If I was ever married to a man I would be depressed beyond words as I know for a fact he could never give me what I want in a relationship. I don't hate men, but a marriage to me at least requires a romantic love and that would never be able to manifest itself in a man for me.

Just to add the flip side to that...you and I could also not give a man what he wants and requires in a romantic relationship. Agape is generally considered the "best," "purest" form of love, but who wants a spouse who considers the giving of affection or tenderness to be an obligation rather than a natural instinct? Who would feel fulfilled by a marriage in which even such basic things need to be forced or imitated?

The unconditional love of agape is great for strangers, God, people who care for society simply because they feel inclined to, but unless it is tempered by some philos or eros, it is a terrible foundation for a marriage. In order to be truly unconditional, agape love must be solely about the person doing the loving, and not at all dependent on the person being loved. It is "I love you just because I love you, and not because you deserve it." As a foundation for a counciling center or a rehab clinic it is perfect--yes you've messed up and don't feel worthy of help right now, but I'm still here and still going to help you. As a foundation for a marriage, it is terrible--I love you just because I'm so great that I can love any creepy old thing, and the fact that I love you says nothing about the sort of person you are; I will still deign to love you despite yourself.

Why some people feel this is superior to genuine "I love you because you are right for me and because I think you are a good person worthy of affection," is completely lost on me.

I why a facade of a marriage is superior to a genuine knitting together of souls and lives, based on that genuine affection and care, is also lost on me. Personally, I just have too much respect for marriage to degrade it like that.
 
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DMagoh

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Matthew 5:29
" If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell."

It is about lust, and lusts of the heart causing you to sin. Homosexuality falls under that category just as fornication and adultery does.

So I guess if you are attracted to anything or anybody you have sinned. Wow, I'd hate to be inside your body trying to live.
 
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DMagoh

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No one is born ugly


Surely you jest.

The above person is a heterosexual whether he ever has sexual relations or not.

It doesnt matter how heterosexual he is if fat ugly women are the only women that he can attract and he cant get an erection with them. Does that justify him paying for a young woman with a nice body?
 
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SymphonicaX

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I'm not understanding what the difference between sexual orientation/identity and actual sexual actions is.

Can someone specifically differentiate between both?

If one is gay, how can they remain celibate their entire lives so they won't disobey God? I guess if God gives them the power to, then amen, but they can't do the homosexual acts because they are sinful as said in Leviticus and Romans.
 
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HaloHope

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Can someone specifically differentiate between both?
.

If I look at my girlfreind and think she is attractive (as I always do) then that is down to my homosexual attraction.

If I were to be sexually intimate with her that would be a sexual action.
 
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Mling

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What is the difference between being a creature that sometimes becomes hungry, on the one hand; and placing reservations at a restaurant, going, ordering the salmon on a cedar plank and eating it, on the other hand?

The former is a state of being, the latter is a series of deliberately performed actions.
 
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WashedBytheSon

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So I guess if you are attracted to anything or anybody you have sinned. Wow, I'd hate to be inside your body trying to live.

Attraction many times leads to lust. I did not say attraction is wrong, I said lust is wrong.
 
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HaloHope

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I why a facade of a marriage is superior to a genuine knitting together of souls and lives, based on that genuine affection and care, is also lost on me. Personally, I just have too much respect for marriage to degrade it like that.

This post as a whole was fantastic but I just had to quote that for truth.

I could never have marriage to a man unless I felt the same feelings I felt for my girlfreind for him instead. That isn't going to happen as I am incapable of feeling that for a man.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Halohope,


Again as I have stated many times in many threads, many Christians do not think that it is wrong to be in a same-sex relationship.
Again, that’s you assuming they are Christians, I am not here to judge whether people are Christians or not people, but I am saying same-sex relationships is not part of a Christian lifestyle.


Whether you feel eros love between people of the same gender is wrong or not, my entire point was the feelings felt between a same gender couple who feel eros love for each other are EXACTLY THE SAME as when eros love is felt between an opposite sex couple.
Ok I think I can see what you are saying now. I probably agree :thumbsup: :)


I've noticed in a great many of your posts that you keep stating that gay men and gay women could marry someone of the same gender. Can I ask where this idea has derived from?
I have been telling you all along, it takes a man and a woman to procreate through sex and God’s purpose in creation is that a man and a woman should be united as one flesh. Hence no matter what sexual desires they actually have they can still get married. The sexual desires do not stop people getting married according to God’s creation purpose, its only their desire that would prevent them. A male paedophile or a man who likes sex with animals could still marry a woman.

So to think of people in terms of their sexual desire or sexuality instead of their sex is where your thinking is going against God’s created order.

If I was ever married to a man I would be depressed beyond words as I know for a fact he could never give me what I want in a relationship. I don't hate men, but a marriage to me at least requires a romantic love and that would never be able to manifest itself in a man for me
Ok that’s for you to decide but to me that’s clearly and obviously not God’s purpose as in the Bible. Jesus says if we hold on to His teaching we will know the truth and the truth will set us free.
 
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HaloHope

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Dear Halohope,
Again, that’s you assuming they are Christians, I am not here to judge whether people are Christians or not people, but I am saying same-sex relationships is not part of a Christian lifestyle.

I am saying they can be part of a Christian lifestyle so we evidently disagree.

Ok I think I can see what you are saying now. I probably agree :thumbsup: :)


Glad thats clear



I have been telling you all along, it takes a man and a woman to procreate through sex and God’s purpose in creation is that a man and a woman should be united as one flesh. Hence no matter what sexual desires they actually have they can still get married. The sexual desires do not stop people getting married according to God’s creation purpose, its only their desire that would prevent them. A male paedophile or a man who likes sex with animals could still marry a woman.
So to think of people in terms of their sexual desire or sexuality instead of their sex is where your thinking is going against God’s created order.


This post is so full of fallacys its ridiculous. For a start if the purpose of marriage is procreation then celibate couples, couples who are infertile and couples who don't want children should never get married.

Secondly if someone is not attracted to the person they are married to, then in my opinion that marriage is a lie. I could never ever love a man in the way that a marriage needs and requires. If I did marry a man not only would my skin crawl whenever he touched me romantically, but I would end up hurting him too. That is a bad thing of course.

Ok that’s for you to decide but to me that’s clearly and obviously not God’s purpose as in the Bible. Jesus says if we hold on to His teaching we will know the truth and the truth will set us free.

It's not for me to decide. I am attracted to women. I am not attracted to me. To be with a man would be bad for me, it's the way I am. I dont have a choice in WHO I am attarcted to.
 
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MrPirate

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Dear Halohope,


Again, that’s you assuming they are Christians, I am not here to judge whether people are Christians or not people, but I am saying same-sex relationships is not part of a Christian lifestyle.

Many would say the prejudice you express isn’t part of the Christian lifestyle.


I have been telling you all along, it takes a man and a woman to procreate through sex and God’s purpose in creation is that a man and a woman should be united as one flesh. Hence no matter what sexual desires they actually have they can still get married.
Why should anyone enter into fake marriage? why would anyone hate both themselves and their potential opposite gendered spouse enough to engage is such a lie?


The sexual desires do not stop people getting married according to God’s creation purpose, its only their desire that would prevent them. A male paedophile or a man who likes sex with animals could still marry a woman.

This is a tactic employed for decades by racists. Racists will compare a member of a minority to a criminal, preferably a sexual criminal to justify their own hate. The popular tactic is to compare black men to rapists implying that all black men want nothing more than to rape white women…particularly young white women. The popular tactic today is to compare homosexuals to pedophiles



So to think of people in terms of their sexual desire or sexuality instead of their sex is where your thinking is going against God’s created order.
Ok that’s for you to decide but to me that’s clearly and obviously not God’s purpose as in the Bible. Jesus says if we hold on to His teaching we will know the truth and the truth will set us free.
Jesus commanded: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35 yet your prejudice against an entire minority, the false comparisons to pedophiles, the insistence on lying, the denigration of their marriages, the pretence that only people you personally like could ever be part of Christianity…these all fly in the face of what Jesus actually said.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Halohope,

I am saying they can be part of a Christian lifestyle so we evidently disagree.
No you said many Christians do live like this, that assumes they are Christians, I am not assuming anyone is or isn’t, just that I don’t think the lifestyle is Christian. Otherwise anyone could claim any sin was not a sin just because they said they were Christian. Please just stick to the issue.


Glad thats clear
thanks for your patience in the dialogue


This post is so full of fallacys its ridiculous. For a start if the purpose of marriage is procreation then celibate couples, couples who are infertile and couples who don't want children should never get married.
Celibate couples? The definition of celibate is unmarried or abstaining from sex, we are talking about marriage. And no, the purpose of marriage according to God was man and woman united Genesis 2 etc, I don’t see that as purely procreation, it’s a complete union.

But you have not really address my criticism that marriage according to the Bible takes a man and a woman. Their sexuality is irrelevant to what marriage is, both the man and the woman can be homosexual or heterosexual, their parents were a man and a woman as well whether they were heterosexual or homosexual.

Secondly if someone is not attracted to the person they are married to, then in my opinion that marriage is a lie.
Do you mean sexually? Is your basis sex again? Marriage is a lifelong faithful partnership which should include sex. Two people who have been married 50 years may still be attracted to each other but no no longer sexually.
 
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HaloHope

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Dear Halohope,

Do you mean sexually? Is your basis sex again? Marriage is a lifelong faithful partnership which should include sex. Two people who have been married 50 years may still be attracted to each other but no no longer sexually.


No I don't mean sexually. I mean romantically. If I married a man I would never be attracted to him ever. I would never be able to look at him and find him attractive, not after 5 years, not after 10 years not after 50 years.

This is not my "choice" it is the way I am. I am incapable of being attracted to man in a way that would make a marriage work.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Mr Pirate,

Many would say the prejudice you express isn’t part of the Christian lifestyle.
Well I have quoted the scripture to support what I am saying, infact the scriptures say it for me, I just believe them. If you are implying you don’t believe the scriptures and think they are prejudcie I would say most people would say that wasn’t Christian, though they may well be prejudice against sin.


Why should anyone enter into fake marriage? why would anyone hate both themselves and their potential opposite gendered spouse enough to engage is such a lie?
I know what a marriage is. but I don’t agree that a man and a woman who hates each other could enter a marriage as God intended, (see 1 Cor 7 and Eph 5) I think if they are Christians they should not be hating anyone anyway


This is a tactic employed for decades by racists.
Well I am giving the Christian view Whatever people who are racist may think. You haven’t really addressed what I wrote. .....

The sexual desires do not stop people getting married according to God’s creation purpose, its only their desire that would prevent them. A male paedophile or a man who likes sex with animals could still marry a woman.

Jesus commanded: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35
Of course Jesus gave that command to love each other as He loved His disciples but where did He marry or have sex with His disciples? He did however say what I quoted that when God created woman for man He said it was for this reason that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh.
 
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brightmorningstar

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Dear Halohope,

No I don't mean sexually. I mean romantically. If I married a man I would never be attracted to him ever. I would never be able to look at him and find him attractive, not after 5 years, not after 10 years not after 50 years.
then marriage is probably not for you, and as a Christian you would choose celibacy.( See Matthew 19, Mark 10, 1 Cor 7, Ephesians 5 etc)


This is not my "choice" it is the way I am. I am incapable of being attracted to man in a way that would make a marriage work.
Ok thats fine if thats the way it is, but of course such similar dilemnas is what we all as Christians face, we all have crosses to bear of some sort.
 
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HaloHope

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Dear Halohope,

then marriage is probably not for you, and as a Christian you would choose celibacy.( See Matthew 19, Mark 10, 1 Cor 7, Ephesians 5 etc)

And this is exactly what Ive been talking about on these forums lately.

Most humans can't cope with celibacy. They can't cope with a life alone. I salute those who are happy with the choice of being celibate if thats what they want, but for most people it isn't an option.

I can not believe or accept Jesus would condemn me and other homosexual men and women to a life without intimacy with the people we want relationships with. If I had to be alone, and never be with another woman I would always be depressed, as a big part of what would make me as a person complete would be missing.
 
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