is the soul physical or spiritual?

[GenemZ]

Colossians 2:2-3
"My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart
and united in love, so that they may have the full riches
of complete understanding, in order that they may know
the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden
all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."



Mark 4:22
"For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and
whatever is concealed is meant to be brought
out into the open."
​

There are many hidden truths in Scripture, because our gaining in knowledge is not to be by means of human effort. It must be by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


If our soul life is in the blood same like that of an animal? If one got a blood transfusion? Would he become a different soul? According to the definition some here are trying to hand us, he would take on another soul.

Man was not created with the same kind of soul as an animal. Just like an engine of a car is not the same kind of engine as a steam locomotive. Both are engines, but not all engines are the same.

God created the human soul in His image. (Gen 1:27) Man is a unique kind of soul with unusual attributes. Man is the highest created soul in all creation. For we will be higher than angels in Eternity. And, if we can know that fallen angels will be tormented forever in the Lake of Fire? Angels who were created to last forever? But, according to some here, the human soul which is created higher was not created to last at least as long as the lower angel's spirit life?

What confuses some is that its not our soul that is weaker than angels. Its what confines our soul that makes us weaker. This body of dust.

The Lord God of Israel took on human flesh and placed his Deity on hold. When he did that? His soul ceased functioning as God, and he became as a man.

The human soul has a potential that is so great that we as mere men of the dust can not begin to fathom nor dream what God has in store for those who love Him.

The Human soul was created by God to experience the highest level of knowing God experientially. Even greater and higher than any of the angels can now know God. For the Lord God of Israel before the incarnation possessed a soul along with Deity as one.

Leviticus 26:10-12 10
'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because
of the new.Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you,
and My soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among
you and be your God, and you shall be My people."



Psalm 11:5
"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as
the wicked one, and anyone loving violence
his soul certainly hates."
​

God the Son uniquely possesses a soul! Read the above passages?


That is what makes the second person of the Trinity to be the Son of God. That is what differentiates him from the Father. For he is both Deity and Soul eternally. His incarnation was simply the adding of the body of dust of the earth. He already was having his soul.

Christ Jesus always was Soul and Deity, even before the incarnation. Some here are bent on obscuring the importance of the human soul. Satan and his angels ENVY what they know our potential as souls can be. They want to rob us of understanding and knowledge of the truth.

The soul of man is God's highest creation. The human soul was designed to share God's life on a level that Satan gnashes his teeth over the thought of.

Hebrews 1:14
"Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve
those who will inherit salvation?"

​

Angels will be loving and joyous servants to the Bride of Christ in Eternity. Satan despised the notion of having to serve anyone but himself. That is why Jesus rubbed it in his nose when He said he came to serve. That the greatest of us will be a servant to all.

The human soul has been created to be a higher life than the spirits of angels. Knowledge of that reality at this time remains hidden from many.

Lets see... Fallen angels will remain tormented in the Lake of Fire forever. But? The higher level of the human soul will perish? Its called the Second Death for angels. Its a death. Death does not have to mean existing no longer. It means an altered existence where what one was before no longer exists. The fallen angels will not cease to exist when in the Lake of Fire in that kind of death. Yet some here claim that the creation of the soul will not be as durable as what is the lower angelic spirit?

Judges 10:16
"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst
and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient
because of the trouble of Israel."

​

The Son of God has always been Deity and Soul. And, as God his soul has no blood! The life of the human soul is not in his blood. Its in his soul! It was through that very Soul of God that all things have been created. Created through his Soul so that all that was created could be related to by our souls.



.


In Christ, GeneZ




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.

.

 

[GenemZ]

These are scholars you recognize and accept which is typical of forming a belief and argument around those that support your particular dogma - which, remarkably, you accuse other of doing as well.

Someone is doing it.

But, a head of the American Communists organization would not be the one. I see.




As they say in my parts?

 

[RND]

Someone is doing it.

But, a head of the American Communists organization would not be the one. I see.

As they say in my parts?

Then it can only be concluded that you intentionally misrepresent the obvious. First you say Brunner believed in infant baptism when it is clear he was against it.

Now you call Niebuhr the "head" of the American Communists organization. Your mischaracterizations, regarding both this and your understanding of the Bible, belong solely to you.

 

[GenemZ]

Then it can only be concluded that you intentionally misrepresent the obvious. First you say Brunner believed in infant baptism when it is clear he was against it.

Now you call Niebuhr the "head" of the American Communists organization. Your mischaracterizations, regarding both this and your understanding of the Bible, belong solely to you.

I gave links, sir. They can see for themselves what i say is true. He went against infant baptism for a season , but returned to fully embracing it.

LOL! You make the infant baptism the issue when it was the least of his offenses? You strain out a gnat, sir. Lets not look at the camel?


LOL! I see... the other was the head of the American Socialists party. He only promoted the American Communist party. LOL!

That's like saying...

How dare you call him gay! He's bisexual,not gay! What an insult!

Sir... this has reached a peak. If anyone can not see for themselves at this point.. even a baby Christian... its futile. Gary 51 can keep trying to lure me back into this street fight, but I will not budge.

I see no sense in continuing feeding your obsession. For that is what it has become. You defend these men's credentials who are disrespectful to God's Word because of technicalities in what I said, not because its not truth. I call that being obsessed. Go ahead. Continue on your path. I am staying on my road. Yours is too muddy and flooded out for me.


Have a nice day. I pray your evaluation before the Lord will be favorable.


Unsubscribing... GeneZ





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[RND]

I gave links, sir. They can see for themselves what i say is true. He went against infant baptism for a season , but returned to fully embracing it.

As did I. Clearly Brunner was against the notion of infant baptism.

LOL! You make the infant baptism the issue when it was the least of his offenses? You strain out a gnat, sir. Lets not look at the camel?

You brought it up, not me. I just corrected your error.

LOL! I see... the other was the head of the American Socialists party. He only promoted the American Communist party. LOL!

Apparently you've never changed your mind. These positions were "a position in sharp contrast to ideas later in his career."

That's like saying...

How dare you call him gay! He's bisexual,not gay! What an insult!

Unnecessary.

Sir... this has reached a peak. If anyone can not see for themselves at this point.. even a baby Christian... its futile. Gary 51 can keep trying to lure me back into this street fight, but I will not budge.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

I see no sense in continuing feeding your obsession. For that is what it has become. You defend these men's credentials who are disrespectful to God's Word because of technicalities in what I said, not because its not truth.

That's merely your opinion.

I call that being obsessed. Go ahead. Continue on your path. I am staying on my road. Yours is too muddy and flooded out for me.

Can't swim without Jesus brother.

Have a nice day. I pray your evaluation before the Lord will be favorable.

Thank you. But why would it be in doubt? Eternal life is knowing Jesus. He never threatened anyone with roasting and toasting in hell forever.

Unsubscribing... GeneZ

I'll miss you.

 

[childofmercy]

unsubscribing - wish I'd never subscribed - fine example of christian grace :o

 

[Mikecpking]

My 'distorted view?'

The Greek mythological view is not what Paul taught. The thinking of those who held such a view found the idea of a resurrection body to be a major offense. Just as many of that same culture found the idea of sex between one man to one woman, and only in marriage, was bizarre and a strange concept.

That is right, Paul did not have Platonic influences in his writings and were firmly tied to the OT.

What some of your favored scholars have done was to take a slice of what the Greeks believed about the soul but fail to mention the rest of what they accepted. The very thought of a resurrection body for the soul would be like someone today telling you that in heaven you will be having relations with horses and cows. It was highly offensive to their view.

There is actually no mention of 'soul' being reunited with the resurrection body. What the Hebrews believed is that they were no longer 'nephesh' in Sheol, but Rephaim. And they were sleeping awaiting resurrection, but not concious of any time passing (Psalm 88, Dan 12:2)

Paul's teaching on the soul was not an attempt to integrate pagan thinking with the Bible. If it was? He failed miserably in doing so. For it contradicts their philosophy in a highly offensive way.

On the contrary, Paul wrote nearly nothing on 'psuche' in any of the epistles.

Paul's teaching was not done to try and win over the Greek thinking mind. If anything, what Paul taught about the soul repulsed them.



In Christ, GeneZ

Again, he wrote nearly nothing. He spoke a lot obout 'nous' and 'sudenensis' and 'Kardia', but nothing on 'psuche'. This is purely speculative, but you could just look into it and see how Greek philosophy has seemingly taken over the original OT and NT meanings.



.

 

[Mikecpking]

The life of the human soul is not in his blood. Its in his soul!




​

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

What does that mean, 'pour out his 'nephesh' unto death if it were not he poured out his 'life' (blood) while bleeding on the cross?

It was through that very Soul of God that all things have been created. Created through his Soul so that all that was created could be related to by our souls.

God is spirit. This last paragraph of yours seems purely speculative as no human in scripture has a soul, but to the Hebrew mind is a soul. God used the word 'nepehsh' of himself in the area of emotion.​

.


In Christ, GeneZ




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.[/quote]

 

[vnct]

The 'rephaim' according to Pederson were not 'immaterial', but 'insubstantiall' where death was the weakest form of life (in Sheol)

are 'rephaim' material beings then?

 

[vnct]

During= All people who are not Christians!

After death= 'rephaim' just like anyone else who dies, except for those who were martyred for Christ's sake.

are 'rephaim' the only beings who exist between mortal death and resurrection? what about saints, for example? and are 'rephaim' always wicked people and never righteous people?

 

[vnct]

Why should a soul that is placed outside of time and space be needing something to sustain it?

i'm assuming that souls are not self-existent. they need some externally-derived force in order to exist. they need GOD to exist. is this incorrect?

 

[vnct]

Yes... obviously. They were recalling what got them into Heaven, and were petitioning the Lord for judgment and revenge for their unjust deaths. You really can not see this?

yes, i can see this. please don't assume that i'm ignorant. others in this thread have been telling me otherwise though. that there are no conscious souls existent between mortal death and the resurrection.

they seem to assert that the verse quoted below exists nowhere in the bible and that all souls are non-existent between mortal death and the resurrection. i don't know why they assert this. they tell me that the soul of my deceased mother (who passed away three years ago) doesn't currently exist.

Revelation 6:9-10
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar
the souls of those who had been slain because of the word
of God and the testimony they had maintained.
They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord,
holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth
and avenge our blood?"​

.

 

[vnct]

Colossians 2:2-3​

"My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart
and united in love, so that they may have the full riches
of complete understanding, in order that they may know
the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden
all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."​

Mark 4:22
"For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and
whatever is concealed is meant to be brought
out into the open."​

There are many hidden truths in Scripture, because our gaining in knowledge is not to be by means of human effort. It must be by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


If our soul life is in the blood same like that of an animal? If one got a blood transfusion? Would he become a different soul? According to the definition some here are trying to hand us, he would take on another soul.

Man was not created with the same kind of soul as an animal. Just like an engine of a car is not the same kind of engine as a steam locomotive. Both are engines, but not all engines are the same.

God created the human soul in His image. (Gen 1:27) Man is a unique kind of soul with unusual attributes. Man is the highest created soul in all creation. For we will be higher than angels in Eternity. And, if we can know that fallen angels will be tormented forever in the Lake of Fire? Angels who were created to last forever? But, according to some here, the human soul which is created higher was not created to last at least as long as the lower angel's spirit life?

What confuses some is that its not our soul that is weaker than angels. Its what confines our soul that makes us weaker. This body of dust.

The Lord God of Israel took on human flesh and placed his Deity on hold. When he did that? His soul ceased functioning as God, and he became as a man.

The human soul has a potential that is so great that we as mere men of the dust can not begin to fathom nor dream what God has in store for those who love Him.

The Human soul was created by God to experience the highest level of knowing God experientially. Even greater and higher than any of the angels can now know God. For the Lord God of Israel before the incarnation possessed a soul along with Deity as one.

Leviticus 26:10-12 10
'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because
of the new.Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you,
and My soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among
you and be your God, and you shall be My people."​

Psalm 11:5
"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as
the wicked one, and anyone loving violence
his soul certainly hates."​

God the Son uniquely possesses a soul! Read the above passages?


That is what makes the second person of the Trinity to be the Son of God. That is what differentiates him from the Father. For he is both Deity and Soul eternally. His incarnation was simply the adding of the body of dust of the earth. He already was having his soul.

Christ Jesus always was Soul and Deity, even before the incarnation. Some here are bent on obscuring the importance of the human soul. Satan and his angels ENVY what they know our potential as souls can be. They want to rob us of understanding and knowledge of the truth.

The soul of man is God's highest creation. The human soul was designed to share God's life on a level that Satan gnashes his teeth over the thought of.

Hebrews 1:14
"Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve
those who will inherit salvation?"​

Angels will be loving and joyous servants to the Bride of Christ in Eternity. Satan despised the notion of having to serve anyone but himself. That is why Jesus rubbed it in his nose when He said he came to serve. That the greatest of us will be a servant to all.

The human soul has been created to be a higher life than the spirits of angels. Knowledge of that reality at this time remains hidden from many.

Lets see... Fallen angels will remain tormented in the Lake of Fire forever. But? The higher level of the human soul will perish? Its called the Second Death for angels. Its a death. Death does not have to mean existing no longer. It means an altered existence where what one was before no longer exists. The fallen angels will not cease to exist when in the Lake of Fire in that kind of death. Yet some here claim that the creation of the soul will not be as durable as what is the lower angelic spirit?

Judges 10:16
"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst
and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient
because of the trouble of Israel."​

The Son of God has always been Deity and Soul. And, as God his soul has no blood! The life of the human soul is not in his blood. Its in his soul! It was through that very Soul of God that all things have been created. Created through his Soul so that all that was created could be related to by our souls.



.


In Christ, GeneZ




.
.

.

thanks so much for your scriptures and comments. i'm persuaded that some part of us must exist on into the afterlife for some time or another in some higher or lower realm. whether as a spirit or soul, i'm not certain what to call it. whether conscious or not, i'm not absolutely sure.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

thanks so much for your reply.

do those who experience the second death not experience resurrection but continue to exist somehow?

The second death is the final death. There is no resurrection after the second death. Whoever experiences the second death will perish. They will not and will never exist every again.

 

[vnct]

The second death is the final death. There is no resurrection after the second death. Whoever experiences the second death will perish. They will not and will never exist every again.

is there a resurrection before the second death? do the wicked resurrect and die again, or do they never resurrect and go straight to the second death?

 

[archierieus]

yes, i can see this. please don't assume that i'm ignorant. others in this thread have been telling me otherwise though. that there are no conscious souls existent between mortal death and the resurrection.

they seem to assert that the verse quoted below exists nowhere in the bible and that all souls are non-existent between mortal death and the resurrection. i don't know why they assert this. they tell me that the soul of my deceased mother (who passed away three years ago) doesn't currently exist.

Revelation 6 is a symbolic vision, of the seven seals. There was not a literal white horse or red horse or black horse or speckled horse. They were symbolic. Logically, the fifth seal depiction as well would be symbolic. Several figures are employed. 'under the altar,' or at the base of the altar; and the 'souls crying out' In Gen. 4, God told Cain that 'the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.' Blood does not have a voice. But the witness of what had been done, the shed blood of Abel, cried out to God. Similarly, in the sanctuary service, the blood of the sacrifice was dashed on the sides of the altar as a witness to the sacrifice. The blood ran down the sides to the base of the altar, under the altar. It was testimony of the sacrifice, it cried out in witness of the sacrifice. Why the blood as testimony? God said, 'The life of all flesh is the blood thereof.' The shed blood was testimony that a life had been given as a sacrifice. The shed blood of the martyrs, their life blood, was a witness crying out to God for what had been done to them. Their lives had been sacrificed, and their blood was a testimony of the sacrifice, crying for vengeance. The tool of personification is used here, as part of a symbolic prophecy.

Dave

 

[vnct]

Revelation 6 is a symbolic vision, of the seven seals. There was not a literal white horse or red horse or black horse or speckled horse. They were symbolic. Logically, the fifth seal depiction as well would be symbolic.

how does one tell if any given text is symbolic or literal?

for example, the book of revelation also refers to the 'tree of life' in a manner similar to the genesis account:

Revelation 22:2 (New International Version)
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14 (New International Version)
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:19 (New International Version)
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

if we thus assume that the 'tree of life' is fictional, shall we then assume that the genesis creation account is also fictional, since it too depicts the 'tree of life'? is the genesis creation account also fictional?

 

[archierieus]

how does one tell if any given text is symbolic or literal?

for example, the book of revelation also refers to the 'tree of life' in a manner similar to the genesis account:

Revelation 22:2 (New International Version)
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Very good and important questions IMO. And resolvable using an approach like you have above. The book of Genesis mentions the Tree of Life. It is not a prophetic book. Nor, according to the Bible, is the city symbolic. It is even measured.

By contrast, the scroll with the seven seals is a prophecy, and the seals are clearly symbolic. Why? A seal is not a horse. A seal is made of wax. Thus, the first four seals are symbolic, as they read. And the fifth seal has too many symbolic elements.

Dave

 

[PROPHECYKID]

is there a resurrection before the second death? do the wicked resurrect and die again, or do they never resurrect and go straight to the second death?

The wicked who were dead at the coming of the Lord remain dead. Rev 20:5,6. The wicked who were alive are slain at his coming by his glory and his righteousness, the same way no man could touch the ark of the covenant and live. No man can behold God's true glory and live. So there will be a resurrection before the second death, for all the wicked. They must be resurrected to die the second death. Read Rev 20.

 

[vnct]

Very good and important questions IMO. And resolvable using an approach like you have above. The book of Genesis mentions the Tree of Life. It is not a prophetic book. Nor, according to the Bible, is the city symbolic. It is even measured.

By contrast, the scroll with the seven seals is a prophecy, and the seals are clearly symbolic. Why? A seal is not a horse. A seal is made of wax. Thus, the first four seals are symbolic, as they read. And the fifth seal has too many symbolic elements.

Dave

so prophecies and/or prophetic books are generally not real? only symbolic? as opposed to historical books? am i interpreting you correctly?

for example: isaiah chapter 6? or isaiah chapter 53?