Is the left holding them hostage?

[Godlovesmetwo]

http://m.ncregister.com/blog/armstr...the-left-is-holding-them-hostage#.VyU5ks5OL4h

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

or maybe we should avoid this kind of thread? , I dunno
just now and then perhaps

 

[Martinius]

The initial point about "free speech" being bullied away is true, but it is not one sided. Everything the author says about the "radical left" applies to his side as well. Both extreme right and radical left (as the author describes that group) are trying to control what people can say. Neither side is innocent in this. For every example one can give for censorship of conservatives, there is an example of attempts to censor liberals. For instance, the issue of the professor at Wheaton college. In the past, the far right tried to prevent blacks, and women, from exercising their rights of free speech and more.

Each side stigmatizes the other, and each side tries to drown out the other. Tell me something I don't know.

Paul, it is too late to wonder about avoiding this kind of thread. I doubt we will see the invective here that occurs elsewhere on topics like this.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

good balanced answer marty, similar to what I would say too

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

I know what I am about to say may upset some people who will disagree with me, but I decided to respond anyway.

Personally speaking, I do not think it is persecuting Christians to object to the mistreatment and often times discrimination against LGBT. I think the people who cry foul simply do not like to be called out and challenged on their poor behavior. They simply do not have the right to do whatever they want and not expect some kind of consequences and repercussions for their actions. And hiding behind their religious beliefs is not a valid enough reason anymore to justify their behavior or breaking the law.

If they are going to single out LGBT by refusing them service or mistreat them in other ways based on their religious beliefs, then there will be some backlash because that kind of behavior is no longer acceptable in our society. If some Christian business owners cannot in good conscience deal with serving LGBT in their public business, then they should find another line of work. Because no one should be discriminated against or mistreated based on their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

It is unacceptable and that kind of behavior will be challenged whenever it happens and it should be challenged. There are other people in this country other than Christians and these people also deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. They deserve to be treated equally and have the same rights and privileges as Christians enjoy in this country. They should not be singled out, mistreated or rejected simply because of who they are and the lifestyle they live. And if a Christian business owner chooses to turn away and discriminate against LGBT people, then they also inadvertently choose to take whatever the consequences are, especially if they break anti-discrimination laws.

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

I also think that education programs to combat LGBT mistreatment and discrimination is a good idea. Unfortunately, there are still people who need to learn that they cannot single out and mistreat (or discriminate) against other people they dislike and not have any consequences for their poor decisions and actions. Mistreating people and discriminating against them based on their sexual orientation is just as wrong as mistreating and discriminating against someone based on their race, gender or religion. There is no excuse for it. It is the year 2016 and the United States of America still has citizens who have to fight for equality and civil rights. And for a country that repeatedly boasts of its freedom and liberties, that is rather pathetic and shameful, in my opinion. But fortunately, more people are starting to stand up for equality and civil rights.

 

[Martinius]

It is the year 2016 and the United States of America still has citizens who have to fight for equality and civil rights. And for a country that repeatedly boasts of its freedom and liberties, that is rather pathetic and shameful, in my opinion. But fortunately, more people are starting to stand up for equality a

As we used to say in the sixties, when we heard a stirring civil rights speech, "right on sister!" There will always be those who want to restrict or even deny basic rights to minorities of one kind or another. Even today this occurs, often for economic or political reasons. Sometimes it is just plain prejudice, clothed in a veneer of morality. We Catholics should be an example to others in following Jesus, and our Pope, in not judging but instead promoting acceptance and mercy.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

in not judging but instead promoting acceptance and mercy.

agreed

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

As we used to say in the sixties, when we heard a stirring civil rights speech, "right on sister!" There will always be those who want to restrict or even deny basic rights to minorities of one kind or another. Even today this occurs, often for economic or political reasons. Sometimes it is just plain prejudice, clothed in a veneer of morality. We Catholics should be an example to others in following Jesus, and our Pope, in not judging but instead promoting acceptance and mercy.

I also agree. Well said.

 

[FrancesJames]

Being a gay man myself, I cannot feel sorry for this man. The thing about free speech is that while it may be the writer's desire to spread borderline hateful messages about me and my orientation, it is my right to toss it right back at him and say exactly what I think about his opinions. I don't think people who are the targets of "anti-free speech bullies" are necessarily being bullied. I think that what's really going on is that their ideas are being challenged and called out for what they are.

I'm not in the business of shutting down the ability to state his opinion but I'm not gonna be shy about calling them out on it, either. It is, to me, disingenuous to suggest that gay people have dignity and are equal to other humans and are yet intrinsically disordered or are guilty of sin. Separate but equal is a doctrine we tried in this country in both overt and covert ways and they have been miserable failures. I don't believe it has ever been successful to separate people on the basis of some arbitrary difference with the effect of having anything resembling Justice.

 

[Rhamiel]

. It is, to me, disingenuous to suggest that gay people have dignity and are equal to other humans and are yet intrinsically disordered or are guilty of sin.

well when you pile it all together like that it does sound nonsensical
lets walk thought these statements one by one

gay people have dignity
accurate, all humans are made in the image and likeness of God and thus are created with dignity and rights that should be respected

gay people are equal to other humans
also accurate, basic human dignity belongs to all of mankind, and is not effected by race, gender, social status, or sexual orientation

gay people are intrinsically disordered
accurate, homosexuality, like all temptations, is a disordered passion, where we wish for something that is not good, either an excess or a deficit or a perversion of a good
Romans 1:26 refers to homosexual temptation/acts as "degrading passions" and "unnatural", so "intrinsically disordered" is kind of a polite way of putting it.

gay people are guilty of sin
well all humans are guilty of sin (with the exception of our Lord and His most Blessed Mother)
that is why we needed Jesus to die for us
but yeah, other than them two, all of us are sinners
homosexual desires are disordered (same as any desire to sin), the Church does not teach that such actions are a sin in and of themselves
so it is only a sin if you engage in sexual activity with another man

so while you might feel these statements are disingenuous, they each make sense when looked at with a soberness and seriousness

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

homosexuality, like all temptations, is a disordered passion

I'm not gay, but out of respect to the gay person on here, I wouldn't use language like this. I don't think its accurate anyway, Rhamiel.
Yes, the Bible is the Word of the Lord, but seems to me that a lot of it was addressing the issues of the day. The behaviour of pagans at the time was promiscuous and out of control.

 

[Rhamiel]

I'm not gay, but out of respect to the gay person on here, I wouldn't use language like this. I don't think its accurate anyway, Rhamiel.
Yes, the Bible is the Word of the Lord, but seems to me that a lot of it was addressing the issues of the day. The behaviour of pagans at the time was promiscuous and out of control.

disordered, something that is not orderly or rational or beneficial
passion, a strong compulsion

so what did I say that was inaccurate?

rage would also be a disordered passion
envy too
we all suffer from disordered passions

you are correct, the pagan behavior at that time was out of control. but the issue here is not the degree, but rather the sinfulness of the act itself.
In Romans, Paul does not say that it is wrong because of the promiscuity of it, but rather that the passions are of an unnatural characteristic in and of themselves

 

[anjelica]

The initial point about "free speech" being bullied away is true, but it is not one sided. Everything the author says about the "radical left" applies to his side as well. Both extreme right and radical left (as the author describes that group) are trying to control what people can say. Neither side is innocent in this. For every example one can give for censorship of conservatives, there is an example of attempts to censor liberals. For instance, the issue of the professor at Wheaton college. In the past, the far right tried to prevent blacks, and women, from exercising their rights of free speech and more.

Each side stigmatizes the other, and each side tries to drown out the other. Tell me something I don't know.

Paul, it is too late to wonder about avoiding this kind of thread. I doubt we will see the invective here that occurs elsewhere on topics like this.

Exactly Marty (if I may call you that too). This isEXACtLY it.

Forgive my ignorance but what does LGBT stand for? I guess it is Liberal something

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Exactly Marty (if I may call you that too). This isEXACtLY it.

Forgive my ignorance but what does LGBT stand for? I guess it is Liberal something

Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender

 

[anjelica]

Ah, thanyou.

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

I seriously doubt that any of us posting in this thread are in the moral position to judge other people when we each have a plank in our own eye. As it has often been said, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. There is not one of us here who is without sin, so no one here has the right to cast the first stone.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

When I first read the article, the part about climate change stood out. It didn't fit because denying science isn't really the same thing as having a difference of opinion on a moral issue. It's also not a left/right thing. Sadly I find fellow liberals and those in the center can also fall in the category of science denial on a variety of issues such as vaccination.
But I'll be honest, I don't get the focus on LGBT issues as a moral issue. In my opinion the Church should and does define sacramental marriage in line with Catholic teaching. However, I personally can't see the need in opposing gay marriage everywhere and for everyone.

 

[Martinius]

We may think someone's choices or behavior is wrong, but we should not deny them basic rights because of that.

Consider parents of a gay son or daughter. In most instances they stick with their children, they don't abandon them or disown them. That does happen in some instances, but from what I have observed and read the majority of parents adapt to the realization of their children's sexual orientation and still love them, and are there for them when needed.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

We may think someone's choices or behavior is wrong, but we should not deny them basic rights because of that.

Consider parents of a gay son or daughter. In most instances they stick with their children, they don't abandon them or disown them. That does happen in some instances, but from what I have observed and read the majority of parents adapt to the realization of their children's sexual orientation and still love them, and are there for them when needed.

I agree. I'm a mom of two boys and as my oldest is just hitting puberty (yikes!) ..well I can't imagine not loving them and supporting them however they are oriented.