Is the law useless for stopping sin?

[BIBLE TIMES]

Often it is said..

The law is keeps us from sin!

We know sin was in the world before the law.Yet scripture is quite clear..

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

And we know that the more Paul tried to “fix” his sin,via the law,it got worse..

Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.


Romans 7:11
For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

In Galatians we see that they were bound in sin..


Galatians 3:22
But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Under what conditions?

Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.

I say scripture says that the law is powerless in stopping sin,in fact is strengthens it.

What say ye?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Law tells me how crooked I am; grace comes along and straightens me out. This verse, Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Through God's grace in our hearts, we know God's laws. The Lord will not save those He cannot command.

We will never be sinless or without sin. I would never grow. Pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes. When studying the Word, I have to be careful because my flesh is always searching for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives. Sinning by accident is part of our sinful nature because those who are in Christ Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

I am learning that "holiness" is the balance between my nature and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within me. True "sanctification" is only through the Holy Spirit who produce the evidence of my own true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God that my flesh CANNOT DO. We need to guard our minds, emotions, and wills, "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). I will never be perfect as long as I live in my body which is why God's grace is more than sufficient.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Law tells me how crooked I am; grace comes along and straightens me out. This verse, Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Through God's grace in our hearts, we know God's laws. The Lord will not save those He cannot command.

We will never be sinless or without sin. I would never grow. Pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes. When studying the Word, I have to be careful because my flesh is always searching for pleasure, pride, passions and selfish motives. Sinning by accident is part of our sinful nature because those who are in Christ Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

I am learning that "holiness" is the balance between my nature and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within me. True "sanctification" is only through the Holy Spirit who produce the evidence of my own true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God that my flesh CANNOT DO. We need to guard our minds, emotions, and wills, "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). I will never be perfect as long as I live in my body which is why God's grace is more than sufficient.

I have found,that the law gives me a conciousness of sin,but that is about all it can do.(Rom 3:20)

Yes,I agree,grace changes us and imputes righteousness.

3 times in Romans 6,it says we have been set free from sin.

There is a sin/ law connection.
In rom 4:15, 5:13.and 7:8.is says basically the same thing.

Apart from the law,sin is dead.

Also.

Romans 7:13 (English Standard Version)


13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.

We know the law is spiritual,and produces a spiritual result...increase sin.
That was the intent.

Romans 5:20 (English Standard Version)

20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Paul said in 1 Cor 9,he was not under law..

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I have found,that the law gives me a conciousness of sin,but that is about all it can do.(Rom 3:20)

Yes,I agree,grace changes us and imputes righteousness.

3 times in Romans 6,it says we have been set free from sin.

There is a sin/ law connection.
In rom 4:15, 5:13.and 7:8.is says basically the same thing.

Apart from the law,sin is dead.

Also.

Romans 7:13 (English Standard Version)


13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.

We know the law is spiritual,and produces a spiritual result...increase sin.
That was the intent.

Romans 5:20 (English Standard Version)

20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Paul said in 1 Cor 9,he was not under law..

I disagree with one thing you said.

"We know the law is spiritual,and produces a spiritual result...increase sin.
That was the intent." The spiritual result cannot be to increase sin. That cannot be a spiritual result. See the law is spiritual, but we are carnal, sold under sin. That means that carnal people cannot keep a spiritual law therefore they will be slaves to sin. The carnal mind is enmity against God because he is not subject to the law of God. But sin does increase with the law because the knowledge of sin increases with the law. In times of ignorance God winks, the law removes ignorance and therefore God will no longer wink making the sin increase. It is not that the law brought sin, but instead the law made sin known. For a carnal man, the knowledge of sin will cause him to sin. For a spiritual man the knowledge of sin will cause him to abstain from sin. Paul said that he is carnal. What did he say the law did to him? It killed him meaning that he was completely ruled by sin, he was sold under sin, he was a slave to sin. When a carnal man comes to Christ and is transformed he is no longer under the effect of the law. The law does not kill him because he can have victory over sin.

Being under the law does not mean being subject to the law. Remember the bible says that the carnal man is not subject to the law of God. The carnal man is the one who is a slave to sin. Being under the law means that you are a slave to sin. You are under the law and its penalty. The penalty of sin which comes by violation of the law is death. You cannot be saved if you are under the law. Because you will be subject to death. Grace removes the penalty of the law and when you are under grace you are saved. But then when you sin again you should have to be subject to die but grace saves us again.

So the law can only be useful in stopping sin when one is spiritual and accepts Christ and not carnal. If you are carnal then the law will increase the sin in your life.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

I disagree with one thing you said.

"We know the law is spiritual,and produces a spiritual result...increase sin.
That was the intent." The spiritual result cannot be to increase sin. That cannot be a spiritual result. See the law is spiritual, but we are carnal, sold under sin. That means that carnal people cannot keep a spiritual law therefore they will be slaves to sin. The carnal mind is enmity against God because he is not subject to the law of God. But sin does increase with the law because the knowledge of sin increases with the law. In times of ignorance God winks, the law removes ignorance and therefore God will no longer wink making the sin increase. It is not that the law brought sin, but instead the law made sin known. For a carnal man, the knowledge of sin will cause him to sin. For a spiritual man the knowledge of sin will cause him to abstain from sin. Paul said that he is carnal. What did he say the law did to him? It killed him meaning that he was completely ruled by sin, he was sold under sin, he was a slave to sin. When a carnal man comes to Christ and is transformed he is no longer under the effect of the law. The law does not kill him because he can have victory over sin.

Being under the law does not mean being subject to the law. Remember the bible says that the carnal man is not subject to the law of God. The carnal man is the one who is a slave to sin. Being under the law means that you are a slave to sin. You are under the law and its penalty. The penalty of sin which comes by violation of the law is death. You cannot be saved if you are under the law. Because you will be subject to death. Grace removes the penalty of the law and when you are under grace you are saved. But then when you sin again you should have to be subject to die but grace saves us again.

So the law can only be useful in stopping sin when one is spiritual and accepts Christ and not carnal. If you are carnal then the law will increase the sin in your life.

Well lets put it this way.

The spiritual law,has an effect on the lower nature.

It is a spiritual dynamic.

As we see here,the way to not be in the flesh,is to not be in the law.



Galatians 5:16-18
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.


Gal 5:24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

I guess it depends on what nature you are talking about.


Here Paul said,it was not his sin?!

Romans 7:17
17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Maybe we are saying the same thing..

We live by a law of faith now.Rom 3:27


Romans 3:27 (English Standard Version)

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

I supose what Paul meant was that he walked in the spirit,which meant he was not under law,because faith grace and law dont mix.(rom 11:6)

We walk in resurrection power,which is the new man.

Dont forget,that law has dominion as long as a man lives,yet through the law,Paul dies to the law.Who is living now?

A natural man subject to the law,or a whole new man?

That is why in Romans 6,he says walk likewise,in the raised man.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.

I say scripture says that the law is powerless in stopping sin,in fact is strengthens it.

What say ye?

Well yeah ....

An episode of Ramond had Raymond thinking of something and he told his brother about the problem . Robert told him to simply not think about it . Raymond said , "Oh yeah ... don't think about zebras ." To which Robert said "Wow" .

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Well yeah ....

An episode of Ramond had Raymond thinking of something and he told his brother about the problem . Robert told him to simply not think about it . Raymond said , "Oh yeah ... don't think about zebras ." To which Robert said "Wow" .

There is alot of truth to what you said here.

 

[Yarddog]

I say scripture says that the law is powerless in stopping sin,in fact is strengthens it.

What say ye?

I agree.
Being a Christian and baptized in the Holy Spirit doesn't automatically give us understanding of what God wants us to do, but it does give us access to that information. Do we try to get it or still use our own minds to understand it is the to how faithful we become.

After being baptized, I felt that I needed to be a better person and the 10 Commandments was the a good place to start. The trouble was, the harder I tried to obey them the harder it became to obey them. I kept seeing my failures and I kept getting more and more frustrated. It was a vicious circle.

Finally, I turned to God and cried out to him for help. I heard him say, "I didn't ask you to be perfect, Jesus has already done that for you". He then showed me the cross and the purification which comes from the blood. I embraced the cross and cast my sinful nature upon it. I now carry that cross with me where ever I go.

I don't worry about my sins any longer, I give them to the cross. The desire to sin began to fade and things became easy because the Spirit of God was in control. I still commit sin but I go to my Father in heaven and he helps to change me. He makes me a new man.

I take on Jesus' perfection and not one of my own.
Romans 4:
3 For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 A worker's wage is credited not as a gift, but as something due. 5 But when one does not work, yet believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 So also David declares the blessedness of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record." 9 Does this blessedness apply only to the circumcised, or to the uncircumcised as well? Now we assert that "faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness."

 

[MamaZ]

The law has never been able to stop sin. LOL..

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

I agree.
Being a Christian and baptized in the Holy Spirit doesn't automatically give us understanding of what God wants us to do, but it does give us access to that information. Do we try to get it or still use our own minds to understand it is the to how faithful we become.

After being baptized, I felt that I needed to be a better person and the 10 Commandments was the a good place to start. The trouble was, the harder I tried to obey them the harder it became to obey them. I kept seeing my failures and I kept getting more and more frustrated. It was a vicious circle.

Finally, I turned to God and cried out to him for help. I heard him say, "I didn't ask you to be perfect, Jesus has already done that for you". He then showed me the cross and the purification which comes from the blood. I embraced the cross and cast my sinful nature upon it. I now carry that cross with me where ever I go.

I don't worry about my sins any longer, I give them to the cross. The desire to sin began to fade and things became easy because the Spirit of God was in control. I still commit sin but I go to my Father in heaven and he helps to change me. He makes me a new man.

I take on Jesus' perfection and not one of my own.
Romans 4:
3 For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 A worker's wage is credited not as a gift, but as something due. 5 But when one does not work, yet believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 So also David declares the blessedness of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record." 9 Does this blessedness apply only to the circumcised, or to the uncircumcised as well? Now we assert that "faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness."

Excellent post,so well said.

What fascinates me is how the law still has the same effect on people today.Gentiles react the same way to the law,even if it is not Mosaic law verbatum.

So often in churches I have attended,the preacher is ministering law,and does nort even know it.

Basically the message is always the same.

Point to the old man,say it is you,now go fix it!

Instead of imparting righteousness,and equating you with your new man,created in righteousness and true holiness,as per Eph 4:24.

Thanks.

 

[Yarddog]

Excellent post,so well said.

What fascinates me is how the law still has the same effect on people today.Gentiles react the same way to the law,even if it is not Mosaic law verbatum.

Jesus chastised the Pharisees because they knew the word of the Law but failed to understand the Spirit of the law. Pharisees are all around us.

So often in churches I have attended,the preacher is ministering law,and does nort even know it.

Basically the message is always the same.

Point to the old man,say it is you,now go fix it!

Instead of imparting righteousness,and equating you with your new man,created in righteousness and true holiness,as per Eph 4:24.

Thanks.

What attracted to the Catholic Church was the love and mercy which was taught. The message is always about forgiveness and understanding. Though they may talk about sin, they do not seek to condemn us for it but instead try to help us find forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

We should not walk out of our churches feeling oppressed and depressed but instead be blessed and refreshed.

God Bless

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Jesus chastised the Pharisees because they knew the word of the Law but failed to understand the Spirit of the law. Pharisees are all around us.
What attracted to the Catholic Church was the love and mercy which was taught. The message is always about forgiveness and understanding. Though they may talk about sin, they do not seek to condemn us for it but instead try to help us find forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

We should not walk out of our churches feeling oppressed and depressed but instead be blessed and refreshed.

God Bless

Lol..yes they are all around! Kinda scarey too. (pharisees)

I totally understand.Though absolutely protestant,my wife and I often watch EWTN.Yes,it seems like catholics do much better in the mercy realm,than do prot preachers.

We love father Groeschel! What a deep man he is.

 

[BrotherDave]

Gal 3:21”...for if there had been given a law by which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been given by the law.” To be righteous through the law we would have to be perfectly obedient to the whole law (Gal 3:10) which is impossible because our hearts are wicked (Jer 17:9). Recall the rich ruler of Luke 18 he kept the law but still loved this world. The only way we can be righteous is through Christ (Gal 2:21). So the law does not stop sin.

God gave us the law because of our transgressions (Gal 3:19). It is our schoolmaster (Gal 3:24) through it we learn what sin is and that we are dead because of our sin and need Christ our savior. When we try to live in accordance to the law we will fail every time and what we are saying to God is that I believe I can live perfectly and earn my salvation. Doing this we are trusting in our works and our best work is as filthy rags (Is 64:6) in God’s eyes. We have to trust completely in Christ alone. Only after he changes our hearts (Prov 20:9, II Thes 3:5, Gal 4:6) will we find a love of the law (Ps 1:2) and live more in accordance to the law even though we are free from it (Ro 10:4).

 

[peace4ever]

Often it is said..

The law is keeps us from sin!

We know sin was in the world before the law.Yet scripture is quite clear..

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

And we know that the more Paul tried to “fix” his sin,via the law,it got worse..

Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.


Romans 7:11
For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

In Galatians we see that they were bound in sin..


Galatians 3:22
But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Under what conditions?

Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.

I say scripture says that the law is powerless in stopping sin,in fact is strengthens it.

What say ye?

Of course the law is powerless to stop sin which is why God gave us the new covenant. The law simply exists now to convict us of sin.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Gal 3:21”...for if there had been given a law by which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been given by the law.” To be righteous through the law we would have to be perfectly obedient to the whole law (Gal 3:10) which is impossible because our hearts are wicked (Jer 17:9). Recall the rich ruler of Luke 18 he kept the law but still loved this world. The only way we can be righteous is through Christ (Gal 2:21). So the law does not stop sin.

God gave us the law because of our transgressions (Gal 3:19). It is our schoolmaster (Gal 3:24) through it we learn what sin is and that we are dead because of our sin and need Christ our savior. When we try to live in accordance to the law we will fail every time and what we are saying to God is that I believe I can live perfectly and earn my salvation. Doing this we are trusting in our works and our best work is as filthy rags (Is 64:6) in God’s eyes. We have to trust completely in Christ alone. Only after he changes our hearts (Prov 20:9, II Thes 3:5, Gal 4:6) will we find a love of the law (Ps 1:2) and live more in accordance to the law even though we are free from it (Ro 10:4).

Yes,we will love God and man naturally,supernaturally.Good post you wrote,thanks.