Is the law "done away " and abolished I mean the ten commandments? for believers?

[LoveofTruth]

"7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."2 Corinthians 3:7-14

even when reading Moses many are confused and blinded.

Notice the word end of the commandment, done away, abolished, a ministration of death and condemnation.

also we read about the law

"5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;' (1 Timothy 1:5-10)

 

[Imagican]

NOPE, the commandments have NOT been 'done away with'. They have been FULFILLED. The commandments were ONLY meant to be a TEACHER from their introduction. Christ openly performed the LESSON and therefore FULFILLED them. COMPLETED them. We are no longer bound by words written on STONE. We are NOW bound by God's laws written into our HEARTS. And I can assure you that the TEN COMMANDMENTS are IN THE HEARTS of those that LOVE God and His Son.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[LoveofTruth]

NOPE, the commandments have NOT been 'done away with'.

"engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away"

I don't know if we are reading the same bible. It seems clear. you just dont understand what done away means perhaps, they are also said to be "abolished"

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:"

notice the word "IS" abolished.

They have been FULFILLED

Yes Love is the fulfilment of the law, and we read about this also,

"5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart," 1 Timothy 1:5

Notice the words the END of the commandment. What does end mean to you?

and we read,

"9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," (1 Timothy 1:9)

the law is not made for a righteous man, do you claim to be righteous in Christ, is he your righteousness? Then the law is not made for you.

The commandments were ONLY meant to be a TEACHER from their introduction.

Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Yes the law was a schoolmaster but,

"
Galatians 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith....But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:24,25)

believers are NO LONGER UNDER IT.

we are dead to it

Romans 7:4
" Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

can you comment on the two laws Paul speaks of here, what do you see?

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

 

[LoveofTruth]

you may want to read this as well

"
Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

and

"10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" (Galatians 3:10-13)

The law is not of faith, consider this word.

and

no Jew or Gentile has to keep the law either. As scripture says

"23 The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" acts 15:23,24

and

"...but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing" (Acts 21:24,25)

"2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:2-4)

 

[LoveofTruth]

NOPE, the commandments have NOT been 'done away with'. They have been FULFILLED. The commandments were ONLY meant to be a TEACHER from their introduction. Christ openly performed the LESSON and therefore FULFILLED them. COMPLETED them. We are no longer bound by words written on STONE. We are NOW bound by God's laws written into our HEARTS. And I can assure you that the TEN COMMANDMENTS are IN THE HEARTS of those that LOVE God and His Son.

Blessings,

MEC

I can use the law lawfully to show sin etc. But they are not made for righteous believers in Christ.There is a distinction in what some understand as done away or abolished and others say about that. The ones that try to be teachers of the law and teach on the OT sabbath law and tithing and feast days etc etc, they dont know what they say. They do not understand that the law is done away and abolished. and that believers are dead to it, free from it, not under it, cursed if they break it etc, fallen from grace if they seeking to be justified by trying to keep it

 

[Imagican]

I can use the law lawfully to show sin etc. But they are not made for righteous believers in Christ.There is a distinction in what some understand as done away or abolished and others say about that. The ones that try to be teachers of the law and teach on the OT sabbath law and tithing and feast days etc etc, they dont know what they say. They do not understand that the law is done away and abolished. and that believers are dead to it, free from it, not under it, cursed if they break it etc, fallen from grace if they seeking to be justified by trying to keep it

Oh my. Must be a Calvinist.

God has NEVER given a LAW or commandment that is no longer VALID. If you believe this, you believe that God is a LIAR or that He has CHANGED.
It is STILL just as wrong to STEAL as it was when the commandment not to was given to the Hebrews. It is JUST as righteous to honor one's parents TODAY as it was THEN.
The difference is that men were bound to the law THEN often TO THE DEATH. And men are NO LONGER subject to a DEATH penalty for disobedience.
Here is the TRUTH that so many never seem to GROW UP enough to recognize: We are bound to UNLIMITED Law now. There is no way to even COUNT the commandments we are NOW UNDER. While we are not bound to them by the chains of death as the Hebrew were, we ARE, nevertheless COMMANDED THUS: We are to LOVE God with all our hearts, we are to LOVE our neighbors AS OURSELVES. Any and everything that you do or don't do can BREAK these commandments. So while the Hebrew were only bound to a couple of hundred laws, we NOW, if we CLAIM to be followers of the TRUTH, are bound to more laws than one could even COUNT in a lifetime. Where those laws were ONCE written on tablets of stone, now there wouldn't be ENOUGH stone to write them on, so they are instead placed within the HEARTS of them that are 'born again'.
And if they aren't? Well, might I suggest developing a BETTER understanding.

Blessings,
MEC

 

[Imagican]

"engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away"

Oh my. Do YOU claim to be righteous in Christ?

I can only HOPE. For I can assure you that I disappoint Him EVERY DAY.

So many seem so insistent that it's ALL about 'grace'. But that is NOT what the Bible says. YES, it is grace through which the offers have been made. But it comes with a PRICE. And anyone that refuses to acknowledge this is only reading and accepting a PART of what the Bible offers.
Every time that the Bible states that ONE MUST............what do you think that means? That it is up to YOU to either accept or deny? No, it means what it says: ONE MUST................that means that you HAVE TO. If you do not, then the promises made are VOID and without merit.

Like I said, we must be discussing this from a Calvinist perspective for I know of no other denomination that INSISTS that it is STRICTLY a matter of GRACE. Every OTHER denomination refuses to DELETE the passages that disagree with such a concept.

Faith without WORKS is DEAD. So if you believe that your works make no difference, then your beliefs are COMPLETELY in contradiction to the BIBLE.

Blessings,

MEC

Blessings,
MEC
I don't know if we are reading the same bible. It seems clear. you just dont understand what done away means perhaps, they are also said to be "abolished"

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:"

notice the word "IS" abolished.



Yes Love is the fulfilment of the law, and we read about this also,

"5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart," 1 Timothy 1:5

Notice the words the END of the commandment. What does end mean to you?

and we read,

"9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," (1 Timothy 1:9)

the law is not made for a righteous man, do you claim to be righteous in Christ, is he your righteousness? Then the law is not made for you.




Galatians 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Yes the law was a schoolmaster but,

"
Galatians 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith....But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:24,25)

believers are NO LONGER UNDER IT.

we are dead to it

Romans 7:4
" Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

can you comment on the two laws Paul speaks of here, what do you see?

"2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)

 

[Imagican]

Those that loved God were once under a covenant of LAW. And the Bible explains to us that THAT law was MEANT to be a TEACHER. But instead of learning the lessons that the LAW was meant to TEACH, the Hebrews/Jews merely became followers of the LAW instead of learners of the LESSONS meant to be TAUGHT by the LAW.
This changed. God didn't, but the UNDERSTANDING was suppose to INCREASE as time passed. But it took something BIGGER than TIME.
God sent His ONLY begotten Son to SHOW them what they couldn't SEE through the LAW.
The law was meant to teach ONE THING: LOVE.
And that is EXACTLY what Christ offered as an example. What Christ offered as THE message of ALL His Words.
So we are NO LONGER under a covenant of LAWS written upon stones. We are NOW held to an even HIGHER standard: LOVE.
So EVERY TIME that you see someone in NEED that you could fulfill and DENY them, you are a TRANSGRESSOR of the NEW covenant, the NEW LAW.
And anyone that would teach you differently is leading you in a false direction. Anything you do that DENIES a sharing of your love for others is SIN. It IS 'breaking the LAW'. It's called WORKS. And each man and woman will be JUDGED by their WORKS. If someone teaches you otherwise, they are MISLEADING you into a false understanding of the TRUTH.
The ONLY difference between the OLD covenant and the new is that once God's laws were written upon stone and meant to be a TEACHER.
Now they are no longer written upon tablets of stone, but in the HEARTS of them that have been 'born again'. But the LAW still exists today and will ALWAYS exist. There is NO 'freedom' FROM the LAW, but we know have freedom to FOLLOW the LAW if we allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in conviction.
But LOOK at the silly concepts that the 'churches' teach that would lead one completely away from the TRUTH. Very sad indeed.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

When asked of Christ, "What is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT?" Christ didn't hesitate, "Love God with all your heart, mind and soul." And He didn't stop there. "The SECOND, much like the first is: Love your neighbor as YOUSELF." And He didn't stop there, He went on to expound upon the ULTIMATE TRUTH: 'And ALL the LAW and ALL the PROPHETS HANG on THESE TWO'.
Get it? Love God, love your neighbor. And ALL the laws every offered by God, and ALL the prophets ever SENT by God, HANG on these two COMMANDMENTS: LOVE God, LOVE your neighbor. Basically it can be boiled down to even simpler terms. LEARN AND SHARE LOVE.
Now, if you believe that you share your love PERFECTLY with God and your neighbor, perhaps YOU ARE BETTER THAN I, perhaps YOU AREN'T under ANY law. But the REST of us are BOUND to forever, (in this life), rely upon the HOLY SPIRIT to lead us to conviction as to SHARING our love towards GOD and EACH OTHER. We ARE bound to those TWO commandments, LAWS: Love God above all else and each other as ourselves.
And it's amazing how many there are that claim to be followers that don't even understand the MESSAGE. So how does one become a FOLLOWER of that which they don't even understand?
Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Look folks, a COMMANDMENT is a LAW. And the New Testament is FULL of commandments offered by CHRIST Himself.
One is FORGIVENESS. We are COMMANDED that "IF" we WISH to be forgiven, then we are COMMANDED to forgive others. That is THE LAW: FORGIVE OTHERS if you WISH TO BE FORGIVEN.
We are COMMANDED to follow GOD'S WILL, NOT OUR OWN. That is the LAW.
We are COMMANDED to share our love with God above all else.
We are COMMANDED to share our love with each other.
We are COMMANDED to DO these things IF we wish to obtain the GIFT that has been offered. COMMANDED to do these things.
Perfectly? Not hardly. But WILLINGLY as we are LED in conviction by the Holy Spirit. We get BETTER at following these laws the MORE we follow in CONVICTION.
But while we are incapable of FOLLOWING these laws PERFECTLY, that doesn't eliminate the ability to come to a PERFECT UNDERSTANDING, even if unable to RESPOND perfectly.
And that is what Christ and the apostles HOPED to convey: the ability to TEACH US to come to a PERFECT understanding of LOVE. TRUE LOVE. Not LUST, a desire of one's own flesh. But TRUE love that allows a man to SHARE regardless of the FLESH. No greater gift can a man offer than to substitute HIS life for that of another. GET IT? It's NOT about being PREDESTINED, it's about our ability to LEARN and to SHARE our love.
Yet so many would choose a path SO DIFFERENTLY than the TRUTH. A path created by MEN and their OWN laws and concepts that are contrary to the very Words of God, His Son and the apostles. Placing their faith in the words of MEN rather than in their OWN potential to understand God's Word offered in the Bible and revealed through the Holy Spirit. If you ARE 'born again in Spirit', then you don't NEED men to tell you THEIR interpretation of something that they don't even understand. You can trust in the SPIRIT to guide you in understanding when you read God's Word with an open heart. The Holy Spirit is going to LEAD you in CONVICTION. It is going to REVEAL the TRUTH to you in a manner NO MAN CAN. And you can TRUST in the Holy Spirit for UNLIKE MAN, it doesn't have to battle with the FLESH.
I've been posting on this forum for quite some time. And it has amazed me since first joining how little most that post understand ANYTHING about the BIBLE. Yeah, many can quote quite a bit of it. But when it comes to understanding, the MAJORITY that I encounter are understandings of MEN, almost completely VOID of any TRUE understanding. They have LEARNED what "CHURCHES" have taught them and then insist upon spreading it regardless of whether or not it conforms to the BIBLE. There IS NO denominationalism in the BIBLE. It does NOT EXIST. The Body is to be UNIFIED, not separated by the concepts and ideas devised by MEN.
So any TEACHING that serves to separate instead of unify is a FALSE teaching. A bogus concept. The Body of Christ is NOT DIVIDED.
Blessings,

MEC

 

[LoveofTruth]

Those that loved God were once under a covenant of LAW. And the Bible explains to us that THAT law was MEANT to be a TEACHER.

"5 Now the end of the commandment i...6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." (1 Timothy 1:5,-7)

The law was added because of transgressions and by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But the LAW still exists today and will ALWAYS exist.

"7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones [ten commandments], was glorious, ...which glory was to be done away:...13 And not as Moses, ... to the end of that which is abolished:...14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;" 2 Cor 3:7,13

"4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ" (Romans 7:4)

"6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;" (Romans 7:6)

There is NO 'freedom' FROM the LAW,

Romans 8:2
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

"free from that law;" (Romans 7:3)


"that the law is not made for a righteous man" (1 Timothy 1:9)

"
For Christ is the end of the law" (Romans 10:4)

and

"And the law is not of faith:"(Galatians 3:12)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Oh my. Must be a Calvinist.

I am not a Calvinist, God forbid such a horror

God has NEVER given a LAW or commandment that is no longer VALID. If you believe this, you believe that God is a LIAR or that He has CHANGED.[/QUOTE]

"12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." ( Hebrews 7:12)


"7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones [ten commandments], was glorious, ...which glory was to be done away:...13 And not as Moses, ... to the end of that which is abolished:...14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;" 2 Cor 3:7,13

"4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ" (Romans 7:4)

"6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;" (Romans 7:6)

 

[timewerx]

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;' (1 Timothy 1:5-10)

That is one of the paradoxes of Christianity.

Indeed the righteous man or woman doesn't need the law, because he or she will do what is right regardless of whether the laws exists or not or whether anyone is looking or not....

....Whether if heaven or hell or God doesn't exist, the righteous man or woman will choose to do what is right...

If you are NOT this person or have failed to understand this paradox, then you need to follow the laws of God so you are less likely to harm or take advantage of the righteous, innocent children of God.

Many of Apostle Paul's writings (and possibly the whole Bible) are esoteric in nature. In short, some fool way way back, decided it's okay that everyone should read it! So voila, we have thousands of denominations today! The irony is that it may doom you more and some Atheists look way better to God's eyes than many of those who are religious.

 

[Wgw]

I very much wish people in this forum would not use all capa in an effort to drive home their point; it does not actually work as a rhetorical device in online discourse.

Now, on the main point, my view is that Gentile Christians are obliged to follow the Noachide Laws as expressed by the Council of Jersualem in Acts 15, with the Mosaiac Legislation providing further detail on what is right and wrong; not the Decalogue apecifically but the entire thing. But as per Paul if we start adhering to the Torah in one reapect we are bound to keep the whole law, specifically, if we ritually initiate ourselves into it through, for example, circumcision. However, when the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 bans sexual immorality or fornication, the ancient Jewish law combined with the Pauline epistles helps us identify with clarity what is meant.

One thing that caught me off guard by the way with the Eastern Orthodox view that the Conciliar legislation of Acts 15 is binding was thr ban on eating blood, which to my horror I realized I had often violated during my stays in the UK when eating Black Pudding, which is in fact made from congealed pig's blood. It transgresses a post-Ascension, conciliar commandment to consume it, but fortunately I never cared much for it anyway, and to the extent I did, there is apparently a new vegetarian replacement that supposedly has the same flavor without in fact being made from clotted blood, which is actally rather gross.

 

[DamianWarS]

A drop out is ashamed and considers his time spent in studies wasted but a graduate is proud and hangs their diploma on a wall to remind himself of the accomplishment. Both are very different but the direct state of both are the same in that both are no longer in school. Obviously the latter is the better.

This is the same with the law. It is not discarded or thrown away but it is fulfilled. The direct state of both are the same in that we are no longer under the law but with the latter, similar to a diploma hung on a wall, we look back to the law as an integral part of how we got where we are now and are pleased.

 

[1213]

Is the law "done away " and abolished I mean the ten commandments? for believers?

Hmmm… what would that mean, that murder is now ok? I don’t think so.

Bible says that Law is fulfilled by this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

If we are righteous, we want to live according to that, because we understand it is good.


And then our actions can show that we are righteous. Right actions are like fruit of good tree. The fruit is not reason for salvation or eternal life, but if we don’t have fruit or we have rotten fruit, we are not righteous and then we don’t get the eternal life.

By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.
Mat. 7:16-19

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[LoveofTruth]

I very much wish people in this forum would not use all capa in an effort to drive home their point; it does not actually work as a rhetorical device in online discourse.

Now, on the main point, my view is that Gentile Christians are obliged to follow the Noachide Laws as expressed by the Council of Jersualem in Acts 15, with the Mosaiac Legislation providing further detail on what is right and wrong; not the Decalogue apecifically but the entire thing. But as per Paul if we start adhering to the Torah in one reapect we are bound to keep the whole law, specifically, if we ritually initiate ourselves into it through, for example, circumcision. However, when the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 bans sexual immorality or fornication, the ancient Jewish law combined with the Pauline epistles helps us identify with clarity what is meant.

One thing that caught me off guard by the way with the Eastern Orthodox view that the Conciliar legislation of Acts 15 is binding was thr ban on eating blood, which to my horror I realized I had often violated during my stays in the UK when eating Black Pudding, which is in fact made from congealed pig's blood. It transgresses a post-Ascension, conciliar commandment to consume it, but fortunately I never cared much for it anyway, and to the extent I did, there is apparently a new vegetarian replacement that supposedly has the same flavor without in fact being made from clotted blood, which is actally rather gross.

A drop out is ashamed and considers his time spent in studies wasted but a graduate is proud and hangs their diploma on a wall to remind himself of the accomplishment. Both are very different but the direct state of both are the same in that both are no longer in school. Obviously the latter is the better.

This is the same with the law. It is not discarded or thrown away but it is fulfilled. The direct state of both are the same in that we are no longer under the law but with the latter, similar to a diploma hung on a wall, we look back to the law as an integral part of how we got where we are now and are pleased.

Not quite, by the law is the knowledge of SIN it is not how we got where we are believers got where they are by Christ giving them life and saving them. The law was a ministration of death and condemnation of their life the law kills but the spirit gives life.

The law drags the woman in adultery to Jesus to be killed but Jesus can forgive now the law is not applied to her in the same way . And Jesus rebuked those who dragged her to him also

 

[Winken]

Exegetical Commentary ~ Romans 7

Do you not understand, Christian brethren (for I am speaking to those of you who are aware of the Hebrew moral code), that it is in control for one's lifetime? Think about it this way: One who is wed to her husband is bound by that code during his lifetime. When he dies his wife is released from that code, referred to as the law. If during their marriage she gets married to another man she is counted under the law as an adulteress. On the other hand, if her husband has died, she is free to marry another man. [Conclusion: Brethren, those of you who were under the moral code are now free to embrace and are blessed by salvation by Grace through Faith.]

Now, Christian Brethren, just as a wife's husband dies, each one of you was put to death with reference to the law, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (Romans 10:8-13) with the result that each one of you were married to Jesus who was raised up from the dead, mobilizing your Spiritual (Divinely-ordained) Nature.

When we Christians were without Christ, the sinful nature revealed by the law was within our awareness, the awareness of guilt, of impending doom. As Christians we are set free from the law, having died to that which constantly beset us, now walking Spiritually by Grace through Faith.

As individuals, what is your understanding? Was the law sin? NO! The law made me aware of sin! I would not have known the difference without the law! Without the law I was unaware of my sinful nature. With the law, I became aware of it 24/7! I was deceived, defying the law!

The fact is that the law, revealing and condemning my sin, was a righteous Holy outreach, therefore positive. Did the law become death? NO! The law revealed the sinful nature! The law itself produced awareness. Me, personally? I am sold out to the sinful nature. I don't know why I do certain things. I desire Holiness yet I practice sin. Aware of the law, I agree that it is good. Not my Spiritual "I" doing wrong, but my sinful "I". In the flesh, in the sinful nature, there is nothing good. Sin is a constant companion. I desire Holiness, yet practice evil. Now that I am a Christian, it is not the Spiritual "I" which does this, but the sinful "I" dwelling within me. I see myself (my sinful self) as a prisoner of the sinful nature.

Wretched man that I am, WHO shall deliver me from this merciless anguish? Praise God, Jesus, our Lord! In my Divinely Ordained Nature I serve Him, but in my sinful nature, I serve sin.

 

[timewerx]

Not quite, by the law is the knowledge of SIN it is not how we got where we are believers got where they are by Christ giving them life and saving them. The law was a ministration of death and condemnation of their life the law kills but the spirit gives life.

The law drags the woman in adultery to Jesus to be killed but Jesus can forgive now the law is not applied to her in the same way . And Jesus rebuked those who dragged her to him also

1 Timothy 1:5-10 in your OP looks pretty clear and logical

Paul is clearly saying there that the Law serves as a deterrent for evil and ignorant people to keep them from doing harm....

...It is no different than Civil Laws in usage and context... For the establishment of law and order to minimize/eliminate crime, etc, etc....

Remove the laws completely and we won't even be here discussing these things... We'd be in caves hiding from marauding gangs of cannibals and sexually depraved men.

 

[LoveofTruth]

1 Timothy 1:5-10 in your OP looks pretty clear and logical

Paul is clearly saying there that the Law serves as a deterrent for evil and ignorant people to keep them from doing harm....

...It is no different than Civil Laws in usage and context... For the establishment of law and order to minimize/eliminate crime, etc, etc....

Remove the laws completely and we won't even be here discussing these things... We'd be in caves hiding from marauding gangs of cannibals and sexually depraved men.

I am not talking about cicil government that is set up and the laws of man. I am talking about the law of God in reading the Old testament.

2 cor 3 read that again slowly and consider all the words. Words like Tables of stone, ..done away, abolished, ministration of death and condemnation ..veil on the heart in reading Old testament etc