Is The Church STILL Carnal?

[GodsTwo]

To rely on the presence, power, authority, or physical restraint of others to “keep you straight” is carnality at it’s highest. It is the nature of all dead religion to do these things.

Sanctification works from the inside out, not the outside in.

Those bound up by religion never believe they are in bondage. They just rail against those who don’t measure up to their standard.


John O.

WOW! That is very profound. True wisdom!

 

[GodsTwo]

Maybe you are free from habitual sin, maybe you're not. I don't know you personally so I can't say.

If he says he is, HE IS!

But I do know that many people try and brush off sin as if it wasn't sin.
"Woe unto those that call evil good, and good evil"

Many also suffer from unnecessary guilt when they have not sinned.

And I do know that we need each other to make this life work.

One only needs God.

If the Holy Spirit cleaned us from the inside out, then why do the mass majority of Christians have habitual sin?

Because they are STILL carnal. The Holy Spirit does not clean. The cleansing happens as a result of acquiring the nature of God.

Why do so many Christian leaders fall? I'm not talking about a slip, I'm talking about habitual sin.

Because they are STILL carnal.

 

[GodsTwo]

Hey, don't let me stop you, run right out there in the street and change things. You think you can do it, then have at it.

The ONLY FAILURE is NOT TRYING!

That is the problem with most believers. They believe that all they have to do is sit back and do nothing, and God will change everything. They believe that because they are Born Again, that that alone makes them righteous in the eyes of God. ALL that does is make them saved. Roghteousness comes from a spiritual relationship where a person will acquire the nature of God. And, if you want a spiritual relationship, you have to go after it. it will not come to you through scriptureal reading and study. It is a result of TOTAL self-giving.

If you (generalization) want to sit and do nothing, then you will be carnal till you die. And as a carnal believers, you can not reap the blessings of God.

 

[GodsTwo]

Ok since you asked, I'll tell you exactly what I'm doing.

I'm literally living out of my car just so I can save up money to open up a Christian Bootcamp.
This will be a place where the homeless and those who are trapped in sin want strength from fellow believers to over come their sins.

People can come and go as they please, you don't have to be any specific denomination.
But while they are there there will be rules to follow.
No A/C, no drugs, no smoking,no tv/net, no sodas, no junk food or sweets, you have to workout, you have to give back to the community some how, and you have to learn some trade if you don't have one.

Other than that people will be asked to set their own program.
If a drug addict needs to be watched 24 hours for a month, then so be it, but they must ask for that kind of help.

It's all free if they can't afford it, the food will be stuff like rice, oatmeal, veggies, water, sometimes fish and chicken.

The place will have bunkbeds, no one sleeps by themselves.

It will be documented on video, and that video will be shown to other churches in the hopes that other believers will adopt the same battle plan, or perhaps improve on it.


Sleeping out of my car sucks. I swet all night long, and the misquitos bite me almost every night.
But if Paul can do it, then I'll suffer for the sake of others.

Sunstone - I'm making an announcement right here, right now. Your consecration is going on and will soon be finished. God has incredible blessings for you. Your suffering has not been in vain.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

That is the problem with most believers. They believe that all they have to do is sit back and do nothing, and God will change everything. They believe that because they are Born Again, that that alone makes them righteous in the eyes of God. ALL that does is make them saved.

If you (generalization) want to sit and do nothing, then you will be carnal till you die. And as a carnal believers, you can not reap the blessings of God.

Simply not true.
Many, rather, have already GONE that route, for YEARS, and have thoroughly exhausted it and come to the END of ourselves -- which had been where God wanted us all along. Far from "sitting and doing nothing" these have turned away from futile efforts at self-improvement and behavioral modification and have decided to try obeying the Gospel instead and having faith in His completed work and in the fact of His all-transcending mercy which endures forever. Where He decides to place these people from there will be entirely up to Him. As it bes Him what works in us BOTH to will AND to do of HIS good pleasure, all responsibility for that ultimately resides with Him.

 

[GodsTwo]

Simply not true.
Many, rather, have already GONE that route, for YEARS, and have thoroughly exhausted it and come to the END of ourselves -- which had been where God wanted us all along. Far from "sitting and doing nothing" these have turned away from futile efforts at self-improvement and behavioral modification and have decided to try obeying the Gospel instead and having faith in His completed work and in the fact of His all-transcending mercy which endures forever. Where He decides to place these people from there will be entirely up to Him. As it bes Him what works in us BOTH to will AND to do of HIS good pleasure, all responsibility for that ultimately resides with Him.

It is absolutely true, The reason all their efforts seem to have been in vain is because they have grown fat theologically, but lack any spiritual growth. Most of the time, works by carnal believers are not love-based, but instead are based on attempting to fit into a mold. It is all about appearance for them.

 

[Father Rick]

The ONLY FAILURE is NOT TRYING!

That is the problem with most believers. They believe that all they have to do is sit back and do nothing, and God will change everything. They believe that because they are Born Again, that that alone makes them righteous in the eyes of God. ALL that does is make them saved. Roghteousness comes from a spiritual relationship where a person will acquire the nature of God. And, if you want a spiritual relationship, you have to go after it. it will not come to you through scriptureal reading and study. It is a result of TOTAL self-giving.

If you (generalization) want to sit and do nothing, then you will be carnal till you die. And as a carnal believers, you can not reap the blessings of God.

Wow...

Your statements here are a direct contradiction of scripture.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no * * flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [/FONT]

Here, Paul has just written that the righteousness of God is "upon all them that believe". It does NOT say it is upon some who believe and others are "just saved".

But this is not said just one time in scripture... it's a recurring theme...

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 4 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found ? [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:3 For what saith the scripture * Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Romans 10 Read This Chapter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2 Corinthians 5 Read This Chapter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

I could list several others, but these should be sufficient for now...

We have righteousness imputed to us simply because we are in Christ... solely as a result of our faith in Christ's accomplished work. Yes, it is true that James teaches that faith without corresponding actions is dead... however, that does not change our position in Christ...

 

[Angeloffire]

Our only righteousness comes from the blood of Jesus Christ.

Sanctification comes from communion with the Holy Spirit as He corrects, teaches, and guides us.

Any effort made by a persons flesh to become holy is religion and self-righteousness.

If you don't operate in the gifts, how are you spiritual? How is God working through you? If He isn't working through you, then who is?

You cannot become 'Holy" on your own no more than you can save yourself.

When people try and become holy in their own efforts you have a 'carnal' church.

This is seen by the lack of the presence of God, the gifts, and revelational knowledge within the body of Christ today.

The emotions people move from....hatred, strife, self-righteousness, anger, self glorification, seeking of titles, putting others down for self advancement, the desire to separate.....etc.

This is the carnal church in action, moving from the spirit of error.

 

[ARBITER01]

Simply not true.
Many, rather, have already GONE that route, for YEARS, and have thoroughly exhausted it and come to the END of ourselves -- which had been where God wanted us all along. Far from "sitting and doing nothing" these have turned away from futile efforts at self-improvement and behavioral modification and have decided to try obeying the Gospel instead and having faith in His completed work and in the fact of His all-transcending mercy which endures forever. Where He decides to place these people from there will be entirely up to Him. As it bes Him what works in us BOTH to will AND to do of HIS good pleasure, all responsibility for that ultimately resides with Him.

Very nice explanation!

We are to let patience have it's perfective work. Some folks overstep that process and rush out there in their own power.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, He started this in us, so it is His work to accomplish and receive glory over, not ours, and also His to finish.

 

[brinny]

To rely on the presence, power, authority, or physical restraint of others to “keep you straight” is carnality at it’s highest. It is the nature of all dead religion to do these things.

Sanctification works from the inside out, not the outside in.

Those bound up by religion never believe they are in bondage. They just rail against those who don’t measure up to their standard.


John O.

amen.

 

[brinny]

Yes, I’m free from the bondage of sin, not because I did anything other then surrender to Christ (who did everything)

Yes I’m free from habitual sin, This does not mean I don’t mess up occasionally, but, as a habit I don’t sin.

The flesh is to be crucified with Christ in order that I might be in Him also raised.( Life can actually be joyful on the other side of the cross) Jesus is not still hanging there, I’d rather be alive with Him. Both Christ and I are aware of my weaknesses. He helps me to overcome. If a fail today, I have tomorrow. He is mush more patient with me then you.

Yes I help the poor, but I can’t help them all, I work with those I can. I don’t beat myself up over the ones I can’t. I only ask God to enable me to do more. I’m only a rusty pipe, He is the living water.

I pray for sick people, I don’t see much of what I would call dramatic results. I still pray. Maybe someday I will, until then I’ll keep doing it, if it ever starts happening I’ll still keep doing it (although I might have to deal with the pride that tends to sneak upon you when God does something through you)


I am very plugged into a group of believers, for the most part as free as I am. But, I do not need them to keep me straight. I only need them to help in the work and to be my friends.

John O.

amen.

 

[brinny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbps9k5Dj0

Revival Hymn​

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It is absolutely true, The reason all their efforts seem to have been in vain is because they have grown fat theologically, but lack any spiritual growth. Most of the time, works by carnal believers are not love-based, but instead are based on attempting to fit into a mold. It is all about appearance for them.

No, you would be incorrect about that, at least in terms of the cases Moriah bes thinking about when it posted. That may be the case for some. It would not be the case for all. IF you had actually read its post, you would have seen it clearly bes not talking about the type you refer to here.
But feel free to think what you wish. God knows.

 

[Leimeng]

~ I could have said no, but even a brief perusal of CF would make me out to be a liar.
~ As a whole, the church is both carnal and spiritual. Mature and immature, wise and less than wise. This is not a contradiction. It is a fact of life. Consider that every day around the world, new believers are being added to the Church. They are clearly immature and need to be fed the Word so they can grow. (Along with a need to pray, pray in the Spirit, worship, fast, ect...) At the same time there are those who have received their salvation decades ago AND are praying, praying in the spirit, studying the Word, worshiping, fasting etc... As a result of that they more mature than a new believer.
~ Of course, at what point is a person considered mature? I would suggest that when we have gone home to be with our Lord, then we can be considered mature. Until then, EVERY ONE of us has some area of immaturity.
~ One of the problems interfering with true spiritual maturity is the desire to study dead and sick theology and insisting that agreement with such manmade theological systems is a sign of true maturity.
~ An offshoot of this problem comes in a lot of ethnic, particually Asian churches. That is, if you are in college or have a degree, you are automatically more mature than someone who has been saved and serving faithfully for many years. I have seen this happen time and time again.
~ Still worse is those who think that because they went to some theological cemetary, they are mature. Bleck. Head knowledge does not one mature make.
~ Another problem from time to time is thinking that because someone has a natural gifting, that makes them automatically mature. This not only is wrong, it causes confusion and more often than not causes a great deal of harm to many involved (cf Bob Dylan).
~ Really though, the focus on true maturity should be on the person sitting in your chair reading this.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[GodsTwo]

I thought this was important enough to bring back.