Is The Church STILL Carnal?

[SUNSTONE]

Somebody has to do it. God is not going to do it for us. If you want to sit back, doing nothing and being part of the problem, don't critisize those who want to take the initiative and fix that which needs to be fixed. God is not going to do it, If he was, he would have already done it.

That's a big fat AMEN!

 

[SUNSTONE]

That's fine, then you be conformed to Jesus and do what He tells you. Worrying about others and trying to tell them what to do will not force them as a whole to do anything more than they want to. It is a fact, and a fruitless endeavor to try.

You seek sanctification for yourself and be what Jesus has called you to be. You be the example to others instead of on the sideline ranting at Jesus's church about what they are not doing.

It is not our responsibility to sort out His church and point out all of it's wrongdoings and somehow make it right, it is His responsibility. He will be the one that sorts out the tares.

You don't "worry" about others? That's one of the major problems in the church today, too many believers are just worried about themselves.
Most are trapped in the bondage of sin.

Saying something won't force anyone, that's true. But it's still our job to say something. The bible says the wise will listen and love wise advice, but fools will hate you for it. (I think it's in proverbs 3).

I am working hard to sanctify myself, I am in the game(not on the sidelines), and I am going to say something to others both sinners and saints.

Doing nothing will produce nothing. Saying nothing will produce nothing.

 

[jeolmstead]

It is not wise to speak evil of another man’s bride,

He is not interested in your opinion about her, he loves her, he gives his life for her. To him she is the most beautiful thing in all creation. You will never convince him otherwise.


John O.

 

[SUNSTONE]

This post actually illustrates my point perfectly.

You say "the church" has a major hole in church doctrine...

So... exactly which "church" are you referring to? Which denomination? Which local congregation?

Such broad generalizations clearly cannot, and do not, accurately represent the whole church. Sure, there may be specific individuals, or even groups, that this may apply to... but they do not apply to all... nor even to the majority of Christians (who ARE the church).

And yes, my eyes are open. I deal with those individual Christians on a daily basis. As a pastor, I have dealt with them-- and seen the 'behind the scenes' with them-- for years.

And, as I said before, in every congregation there are some Christians who are mature, some who are immature, and some in between.


And whether you realize it or not, such generalizations are actually a denigration of the Holy Spirit. Since it is He that is our teacher, He is the one who leads and guides the Church... bringing us to maturity in Christ... then, according to your pov, He apparently has been incapable of doing His job.

You just said that the majority of Christians are not carnal???
That is so far from the truth.

Only 3% tithe.
The churches divorce rate, and other sins mirror nonbelievers.

All churches have some things right, and some things wrong. But the overwhelming mass majority of Christians are trapped in the bondage of sin.

For me not to say anything would be going against the orders of God.

You may be a leader in a church, but so where the Jews at one time, and they did such a terrible job that God fired them and put someone else in charge.
Remember the parable of the vineyard keepers.

 

[ARBITER01]

You don't "worry" about others? That's one of the major problems in the church today, too many believers are just worried about themselves.
Most are trapped in the bondage of sin.

Saying something won't force anyone, that's true. But it's still our job to say something. The bible says the wise will listen and love wise advice, but fools will hate you for it. (I think it's in proverbs 3).

I am working hard to sanctify myself, I am in the game(not on the sidelines), and I am going to say something to others both sinners and saints.

Doing nothing will produce nothing. Saying nothing will produce nothing.

Really?

Well head on out there and do something. I'm not sure what you are going to do outside of The Lord Jesus doing it through you, but if you say so, have at it my friend.

Change the world.

 

[SUNSTONE]

It is not wise to speak evil of another man’s bride,

He is not interested in your opinion about her, he loves her, he gives his life for her. To him she is the most beautiful thing in all creation. You will never convince him otherwise.


John O.

No it is the sinner who is in love with their sin who is not interested in what some of us have been saying.

The bible is very clear on lawlessness. Paul said different things to different churches and people(all the same church, but the only difference was the location).
One church was luke warm.
A family was killed by the Holy Spirit for not giving what they purposed to give.
Another couple was kicked out of the church, a son who married his father's wife.
Whoever destroys the body, God will destroy them.
God will not be mocked, you shall reap what you sow.

Those things aren't a heaven or hell issue, it's a sowing and reaping issue.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Really?

Well head on out there and do something. I'm not sure what you are going to do outside of The Lord Jesus doing it through you, but if you say so, have at it my friend.

Change the world.

I'm helping the poor, and those trapped in the bondage of sin.

What are you doing? Nothing?
What if God askes you, "Why did you do nothing?" What will your answer be? "Well God I can't do anything without you controlling me like a puppet? Don't you control everything?"

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm helping the poor, and those trapped in the bondage of sin.

What are you doing? Nothing?
What if God askes you, "Why did you do nothing?" What will your answer be? "Well God I can't do anything without you controlling me like a puppet? Don't you control everything?"

Hey, don't let me stop you, run right out there in the street and change things. You think you can do it, then have at it.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Hey, don't let me stop you, run right out there in the street and change things. You think you can do it, then have at it.

Ok since you asked, I'll tell you exactly what I'm doing.

I'm literally living out of my car just so I can save up money to open up a Christian Bootcamp.
This will be a place where the homeless and those who are trapped in sin want strength from fellow believers to over come their sins.

People can come and go as they please, you don't have to be any specific denomination.
But while they are there there will be rules to follow.
No A/C, no drugs, no smoking,no tv/net, no sodas, no junk food or sweets, you have to workout, you have to give back to the community some how, and you have to learn some trade if you don't have one.

Other than that people will be asked to set their own program.
If a drug addict needs to be watched 24 hours for a month, then so be it, but they must ask for that kind of help.

It's all free if they can't afford it, the food will be stuff like rice, oatmeal, veggies, water, sometimes fish and chicken.

The place will have bunkbeds, no one sleeps by themselves.

It will be documented on video, and that video will be shown to other churches in the hopes that other believers will adopt the same battle plan, or perhaps improve on it.


Sleeping out of my car sucks. I swet all night long, and the misquitos bite me almost every night.
But if Paul can do it, then I'll suffer for the sake of others.

 

[jeolmstead]

God bless you in your endeavor…..


John O.

 

[ARBITER01]

If you The Holy Spirit has called you to do such things, continue.

 

[jeolmstead]

To rely on the presence, power, authority, or physical restraint of others to “keep you straight” is carnality at it’s highest. It is the nature of all dead religion to do these things.

Sanctification works from the inside out, not the outside in.

Those bound up by religion never believe they are in bondage. They just rail against those who don’t measure up to their standard.


John O.

 

[ARBITER01]

To rely on the presence, power, authority, or physical restraint of others to “keep you straight” is carnality at it’s highest. It is the nature of all dead religion to do these things.

Sanctification works from the inside out, not the outside in.

Those bound up by religion never believe they are in bondage. They just rail against those who don’t measure up to their standard.


John O.

That is exactly right!

Jesus is our sanctifier, and only He can bring us holiness. We can't do it on our own. It takes a direct personal relationship with Him. We must work on it.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Oh so you guys are free from the bondage of sin??? You have zero habitual sins, you're in perfect health, you're helping the poor, healing the sick, ah???

The flesh will always war against the spirit, always!

The bible is very clear that we are to work together. We are different parts of the body of Christ.

 

[jeolmstead]

Oh so you guys are free from the bondage of sin??? You have zero habitual sins, you're in perfect health, you're helping the poor, healing the sick, ah???

The flesh will always war against the spirit, always!

The bible is very clear that we are to work together. We are different parts of the body of Christ.

Yes, I’m free from the bondage of sin, not because I did anything other then surrender to Christ (who did everything)

Yes I’m free from habitual sin, This does not mean I don’t mess up occasionally, but, as a habit I don’t sin.

The flesh is to be crucified with Christ in order that I might be in Him also raised.( Life can actually be joyful on the other side of the cross) Jesus is not still hanging there, I’d rather be alive with Him. Both Christ and I are aware of my weaknesses. He helps me to overcome. If a fail today, I have tomorrow. He is mush more patient with me then you.

Yes I help the poor, but I can’t help them all, I work with those I can. I don’t beat myself up over the ones I can’t. I only ask God to enable me to do more. I’m only a rusty pipe, He is the living water.

I pray for sick people, I don’t see much of what I would call dramatic results. I still pray. Maybe someday I will, until then I’ll keep doing it, if it ever starts happening I’ll still keep doing it (although I might have to deal with the pride that tends to sneak upon you when God does something through you)


I am very plugged into a group of believers, for the most part as free as I am. But, I do not need them to keep me straight. I only need them to help in the work and to be my friends.

John O.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Maybe you are free from habitual sin, maybe you're not. I don't know you personally so I can't say.

But I do know that many people try and brush off sin as if it wasn't sin.
"Woe unto those that call evil good, and good evil"

And I do know that we need each other to make this life work.

If the Holy Spirit cleaned us from the inside out, then why do the mass majority of Christians have habitual sin?

Why do so many Christian leaders fall? I'm not talking about a slip, I'm talking about habitual sin.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Paul talked about his flesh and how it went against the spirit.

The bible says we should confess our sins to each other, why? If God is the one doing the cleaning, then why confess to other people?

Galations 6:2 says that the mature believer should help a person who is trapped in the bondage of sin.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

To rely on the presence, power, authority, or physical restraint of others to “keep you straight” is carnality at it’s highest. It is the nature of all dead religion to do these things.

Sanctification works from the inside out, not the outside in.

Those bound up by religion never believe they are in bondage. They just rail against those who don’t measure up to their standard.

John O.

trying to escape sin that way -- and believing it HAD to "or else" -- bes what DESTROYED daimonizomai's first, original time walking with God after it come to Christ at age 16, and left it open for demonic infestation as a result.

so good luck with that. let us know in 2 years or less how well that bes worksy, all that try to be good by increasing and tightening external attempts at control.

 

[Elijah2]

Hi Rick,

In every congregation there are those who are immature in their faith... those who are mature... and those in between.
Are you referring to the wayside, stony, and thorny Christians, who are not just immature, but half-hearted and lukewarm?

Anytime we make sweeping statements regarding "the church" as a whole, instead of dealing with individuals, then it is always very easy to become very self-righteous and point out everyone's faults.
I don’t know about “self-righteousness”, but many do get sick and tired of the Pharisees, the Apostasy, the legalism, and the “fairy-floss” teaching in the church.

Of course, in doing so we always overlook our own.
Well, I guess when we speak out, we are also expressing our own weaknesses.

And... after years of pastoring... I've found that usually when someone starts having a "burden" for "the church", it's usually that God is dealing with an issue in that person's own heart.
Well, I have burden for the church, particularly those Christians who are struggling with their strongholds of sin, and hurting “souls”, which I guess are the issues that you speaking about.

Be blessed in Jesus’ Name.

 

[Elijah2]

The problem with determining which Christians are carnal and which are spiritually mature is that it's usually the carnal ones who are running around with the little labeling machines.

Hi T,

I haven't seen any carnal ones getting around with a labelling machine, but I do know that they are well labelled by our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 13, The Parables of the Sower, Wheat, and Tares.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.