Is the Bible wrong?

[Elduran]

Your view of "standard academia" is very, very, very limited, and leaves out thousands of accredited universities, including many top tier Universities.

Since you listed certain Universities to support your view, I am, by all means, interested in knowing what M.I.T., and Harvard and Cambridge say about the authorship of Genesis.

I'll ask a friend of mine studying theology what he was taught on his course if I can remember.

 

[cerad]

I know of at least one 4,000 goat hurder that knew a little bit about animal husbandry.

Genesis 30:32
I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.

Do you have their email or other contact info? Not only curious about their goat herding abilities but wouldn't mind learning about how they stayed alive for so long.

 

[TexasSky]

Since I know the documentary hypothesis reigns in academia and the people teaching this often use textual analysis in their work then I suggest you research their work and see what studies have been done. As I said this is 2006 and there will have been work on this in the last 25 years not performed by a Penthouse affiliated magazine.

I did my research, and found the 1982 study.
I haven't found anything that discounts that study as you claim. And by the way, the study I listed has nothing to do with Penthouse, so please stop tossing out such ridiculous claims. If you read Penthouse that is between you and your wife, but it has nothing to do with the University in Israel that fed the bible into the computer.

 

[TexasSky]

I'll ask a friend of mine studying theology what he was taught on his course if I can remember.

1) I studied theology. Not only for credit at the college level, but also one on one with the President of Southwestern Theological Seminary.
2) My brother-in-law has a degree in theology, and is a minister in a denomination other than my own. I tend to run such things by him as well as by the Seminary President.
3) A coworker down the hall has degree in theology, and teaches Greek. I run a lot of things past him.
4) My brother-in-law's friend is part of the Dead Sea Scroll team at a major university. His job is translating them.
5) My Uncle is a biblical translator.
6) My daughter lacks one semester having a degree in theology.
7) My pastor graduated with his doctorate in theology with a 4.0, and taught theology for six years. I tend to run a lot of things by him as well.

But let me know what your friend says.

 

[TexasSky]

I was just throwing out a generic list of respected academic schools to be contrasted to Bible colleges - I was not implying MIT had a Middle East history speciality - which I am sure they do not.

No, you were just implying that colleges which are founded on Christian principles know less about biblical history than places like M.I.T.

Are you aware that Harvard University was founded by a minister, and that for many years the only graduates of Harvard were ministers?

Yale was also founded by "fundamental ministers." In fact, Yale's motto used to be "To plant and under ye Divine blessing to propagate in this Wilderness, the blessed Reformed, Protestant Religion, in ye purity of its Order and Worship."

Are you aware that Baylor University, a Baptist University, is one of the top medical research facilities in the world?

Do you have any respect for Notre Dame?

What about good ole Cambridge? The records on Cambridge are so old its actually difficult to determine when it was really founded, as opposed to when it was "officially sanctioned" by the king of England. It was originally a gathering of clergymen in Cambridge Village who got together to sudy the teachings of the Benedictine priests. In 1231 they had such a reputation as being supportive of scholarly achievement that scholars around the world came to Cambridge to study with these Benedictine Munks. In 1231 King Henry III offered them his protection.

Funny how the attitude of the world has changed isn't it? Today, Christian Universities are treated as being for the ignorant, yet, without them, the entire world would still live in ignorance.

 

[OdwinOddball]

No, you were just implying that colleges which are founded on Christian principles know less about biblical history than places like M.I.T.

Are you aware that Harvard University was founded by a minister, and that for many years the only graduates of Harvard were ministers?

Yale was also founded by "fundamental ministers." In fact, Yale's motto used to be "To plant and under ye Divine blessing to propagate in this Wilderness, the blessed Reformed, Protestant Religion, in ye purity of its Order and Worship."

Are you aware that Baylor University, a Baptist University, is one of the top medical research facilities in the world?

Do you have any respect for Notre Dame?

What about good ole Cambridge? The records on Cambridge are so old its actually difficult to determine when it was really founded, as opposed to when it was "officially sanctioned" by the king of England. It was originally a gathering of clergymen in Cambridge Village who got together to sudy the teachings of the Benedictine priests. In 1231 they had such a reputation as being supportive of scholarly achievement that scholars around the world came to Cambridge to study with these Benedictine Munks. In 1231 King Henry III offered them his protection.

Funny how the attitude of the world has changed isn't it? Today, Christian Universities are treated as being for the ignorant, yet, without them, the entire world would still live in ignorance.

What is funnier is how the modern Christian University bears little to no resemblance to the Christian founded universisties you mentioned.

MIT was indeed founded by a minister, as were many universities. There was a time when most major scientists were actually trained in seminaries.

But something changed here in America during the last century. Instead of valuing rigorous academic standards and scientific inquiry as these great institutions did, todays modern Bible colleges eschew experimentation and scientific rigeour in favor of absolute faith in God and the bible. They toss out many of the ideas and theories that the Christian universities of old developed.

Christianity itself has continously whittled itself down over the years by self examination and scientific study carried out by its own proponents.

Evoltuion? Proposed by a Christian.

Big Bang? Proposed by a Christian.

Global flood? Disproved by Christians.

Today you have realised just what shaky ground you truely are on. You apply scientific theory and method only when it is convient now. No longer are you willing to examine even the most cherished believes of your religion. This is what started the Fundamentalist revivals that created people like Henry Moris. The fear that eventually science will disprove every aspect of Christianity, including god himself. So instead of scientific method, Christianity now teachees close minded traditionalist dogma. Anything that casts doubt on accepted cannon is derided, feared, and denied.

Wait, I should rephrase all that. It is not Christianity that does all this anymore. No, it is only the more fundamentalist among you that propose such vapid and primitive superstition. Christianity as a whole continues to move forward. Witness the acknoledgements of Minsiters here in America and the Vatican, of Evolution and other scienttific theories that contradict a literal Bible.

Where ignorance is found, Fundamentalism will flourish. This board is living proof of the truth of this statement. Every time one of you steps forward with your **** poor knowledge of science. Every time one of you states a twisted and patently absurd version of a scientific theory. Every time one of you references known conmen and liars, you do more to discredit Christianity in general than any amount of Atheism can ever do.

So keep it up. Keep up your willfull ignorance. Keep refusing to actually learn about or study the subjects you deride. Keep quoting Moris, Hovind, or the other con men out for a fast buck. Keep demonstrating just how frightened people can get when they are faced with the truth of the world.

 

[JohnR7]

Funny how the attitude of the world has changed isn't it? Today, Christian Universities are treated as being for the ignorant, yet, without them, the entire world would still live in ignorance.

You can thank Darwin for that. He made a mockery out of the whole thing.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

You can thank Darwin for that. He made a mockery out of the whole thing.

Support with actual quotes or retract the claim.

 

[TexasSky]

Found another study, this one done by linguistics experts, done in 1986, that supports "one author".

In the study they divided the text according to "type of text" (narrative, human speaker, Divine Speech), the documentary source (text using Jhwh, text using Elohim, and test indicating a priestly author), and "story type." (creation, flood, heros, ....).

They also did a statistical analysis of words used. They focused this on verbal morphology that are unique to writers and cannot be consciously manipulated. They discovered that even in places where the words for God differed, the authorship was definately the same person. The words that were presented as priestly gave some variance. Even with the variances, less than 1/2 the variables indicated the possibility that liguistically the authorship might vary.

The second phase also indicated that the authors were the same individual, presenting different aspects of personality.

I did find a note during my search that said, "many liberal protestant scholars," accept a theory that the book has multiple authors, but it says the majority of scholars support the belief that Moses was the author, based on early literary tradition that, when applied to Genesis, indicates Moses' authorship.

 

[JohnR7]

Big Bang? Proposed by a Christian.

The big bang is a hebrew belief from the Kabbalah.

 

[TexasSky]

Ah yes, good ole Darwin.

Whether he was a Christian or not is debateable.

Many Christians believe that you cannot know Christ and then deny Christ exists. Darwin did exactly that, identifying himself as an agnostic late in his life.

So, was he ever a Christian? Or was he, like many other people in this world, a person that pretended to believe in Christ?

 

[TexasSky]

You're right about Georges-Henri Lemaitre. He was actually a Priest.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

The big bang is a hebrew belief from the Kabbalah.

Really. And you sure have something up your sleeve to support that claim.

Many Christians believe that you cannot know Christ and then deny Christ exists. Darwin did exactly that, identifying himself as an agnostic late in his life.

How convenient. A Christian who converts to atheism was never a christian to begin with, because Christians per definitionem cannot lose their faith.

So, was he ever a Christian? Or was he, like many other people in this world, a person that pretended to believe in Christ?

First of all, you are hardly in the position to imply that a man dead for 120 years was nothing but a hypocrite. Second, why would it matter?

 

[JohnR7]

Really. And you sure have something up your sleeve to support that claim.

They claim the theory goes back to Nachmanides.

 

[OdwinOddball]

Ah yes, good ole Darwin.

Whether he was a Christian or not is debateable.

Many Christians believe that you cannot know Christ and then deny Christ exists. Darwin did exactly that, identifying himself as an agnostic late in his life.

So, was he ever a Christian? Or was he, like many other people in this world, a person that pretended to believe in Christ?

Ahh, that tired old chestnut.

It's bogus. you know, I know it, and everyone who says it knows it.

It is an excuse for Christians so they don't have to face the fact that their theology might not be 100% perfect. That yes, there may be uncertainty there. That maybe, just maybe, no matter how improbable, that they really have been deluding themselves for all these years.

It is just another way for Christians to project their arrogance and superiority complex onto everyone else.

Get over youselves.

When we who were once Christian professed such a belief, we were not being false. We believed, just as devoutely, sincerly, and will all our heart and soul just like you do. The thought that we could toss all that aside was unthinkable to us then, just as it is to you now. The idea that we actually were able to do so scares the crap out of you

 

[MrGoodBytes]

They claim the theory goes back to Nachmanides.

Who is they?

 

[JohnR7]

Who is they?

Hebrew creationists like gerald schroeder.

 

[fatpie42]

Ah yes, good ole Darwin.

Whether he was a Christian or not is debateable.

Many Christians believe that you cannot know Christ and then deny Christ exists. Darwin did exactly that, identifying himself as an agnostic late in his life.

So, was he ever a Christian? Or was he, like many other people in this world, a person that pretended to believe in Christ?

Darwin's reason for giving up on Christianity was nothing to do with his theory of evolution. To the very end he saw no contradiction between evolution and Christianity. What prevented Darwin from believing in Christianity was a problem suffered by many religious people, Christian and non-Christian alike: the problem of evil.

Darwin said that he could not believe that the good God of Christianity had created parasites with the purpose of devouring the insides of other animals causing them to die in agony. Darwin had presumably wanted to see in nature the wondrous splendour of God's creation. Evolutionary processes often show such splendour, but there are many aspects of nature which simply do not.

If you saw Christ strike a baby until it died in horrifying agony would you still have faith? That is the equivalent of what Darwin thought he saw in nature, and a good God would understand such a lapse in faith....

 

[Abongil]

Ah yes, good ole Darwin.

Whether he was a Christian or not is debateable.

Many Christians believe that you cannot know Christ and then deny Christ exists. Darwin did exactly that, identifying himself as an agnostic late in his life.

So, was he ever a Christian? Or was he, like many other people in this world, a person that pretended to believe in Christ?

There are few peopel who "know Christ" If you take that into account, there are more Christian posers than actual Christians.

 

[five]

Can fiction be wrong?