Is Slavery an Acceptable Practice?

[Paul of Eugene OR]

You do understand that less than half of US citizens are forced serve the needs of others, right? Most people don't pay income tax.

You also understand what the working definition of slavery is, as I set out plainly in the OP, and to which everyone agreed, until, that is they understood I was the salve. Then there was backpedaling.

I'm sorry, where did anyone ever agree to your definition of what slavery is? I see where you requested people to reply consistently to the definition you gave in the opening post. But that doesn't mean, even when people comply, that you have accurately captured the definition of slavery.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

However, it was clearly stipulated such exceptions were limited to a period of no more than "seven years", (Exodus 21:2, Leviticus 25, and Jeremiah 34:14). After seven years, a Hebrew was required by law to "release" a slave, or suffer punishment from God. There were no exceptions to this stipulation. . . .
.

The scriptures make it plain that it is perfectly legal in the Mosaic law to own slaves that were NOT HEBREW in perpetuity.

Lev 25:44-46
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have -- you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.
NASU

 

[2 know him]

Defining slavery as the forceful use of one person to serve the purpose of another, is slavery an acceptable practice?

Does God approve of it?

Is it acceptable under certain circumstances?

Why is it wrong?

The simple answer is no.

The complex answer is that Jesus stated his words would judge mankind on judgement day and that we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves: which means with equality. Slavery took place in the scriptures for 2 main reasons: 1, men were in debt and paid their debts off through it. 2, to spare ones life in war: it was a kind of taxation of the loser. In both cases Christ taught against the behaviour which caused slavery to exist.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

which means with equality

You are making an assumption there. You are adding words to Christ's. Love is not only possible but greater when demonstrated by two people who are not equal.

 

[Philip_B]

Does the question really ask is paying tax, where some good part of that taxation is used to support the poor, the disadvantaged, and the needy, in terms of Pygmalion be they deserving or undeserving, mean that you are indeed in servitude to them.

Charity and hospitality are expectations on all those who have been blessed, according to the Old Testament Standards. In this sense it seems to me that this is our duty and service, and whilst you may feel the weight, it is not the same as bondage and ownership. I think that the question is being stretched beyond where the principal was intended to go.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It helps towards truth (for those seeking TRUTH) IF
and ONLY IF
you can FIND
a translation that puts the word "slave"
EVERYWHERE
that it is in SCRIPTURE. (instead of mis-translating it)

The greatest figure in Jewish history is Y'SHUA MESSIAH.(HE is still Jewish, and KING OF THE JEWS).

The greatest figure in Jewish history is Moses.

==============================
Not so. Read what YHWH HIMSELF says about "slave" in both TORAH and NEW TESTAMENT. (IF you can find a translation that properly translates "slave" everywhere it is in the original). You are in for perhaps one of the biggest shocks of the last ten years if you can do this. (No, I don't know if it is "findable" online or not).

It is a pretty safe bet therefore, that when it comes to slavery, God is against it.

=============================
As above,
use what YHWH says about "slave", not what men say.
It is different than most everyone is claiming.

I'm sorry, where did anyone ever agree to your definition of what slavery is?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Does the question really ask is paying tax, where some good part of that taxation is used to support the poor, the disadvantaged, and the needy, in terms of Pygmalion be they deserving or undeserving, mean that you are indeed in servitude to them.

Charity and hospitality are expectations on all those who have been blessed, according to the Old Testament Standards. In this sense it seems to me that this is our duty and service, and whilst you may feel the weight, it is not the same as bondage and ownership. I think that the question is being stretched beyond where the principal was intended to go.

Apples and oranges. The US has been redistributing wealth for many decades.

Helping the poor is a voluntary action. Being forced to work so other able-bodied people don't have to is bondage. It fits the working definition of slavery, which I painstakingly asked all poster to confirm was an accurate one. All agreed it was.

 

[Philip_B]

Being forced to work so other able-bodied people don't have to is bondage.

This is perhaps the premise that needs testing. Many people in Western Democracies may feel some part of this pain.

 

[2 know him]

You are making an assumption there. You are adding words to Christ's. Love is not only possible but greater when demonstrated by two people who are not equal.

You say I am making an assumption and adding to the words of Christ, but what does it mean to Love your neighbor as yourself? Is it not to love them as your equal? Please explain. Do you think your version of Christianity is greater than that of the church at Jerusalem: which practised equality in selling their goods and sharing them as one had need?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The ecclesia in the NEW TESTAMENT is a very very good example of how to live right, according to YHWH'S WORD, PLAN, PURPOSE and DIRECTIONS; and LIFE IN Y'SHUA.
But,
note that they did not share things equally.
More important:
NOT ONE OF THEM HAD A NEED UNMET. (food or clothes or a place to stay).
IF anyone owned 2 or more houses, and the needs were there among the brethren,
they would sell a house to meet the needs of their brethren,
without a "rule" saying they had to.
They were completely OVERJOYED,
and CONTINUALLY FILLED WITH PEACE, JOY and <<<<<<< RIGHTEOUSNESS>>>>>>>
every day - DAILY - every one.....
and those who were WEALTHY rejoiced IN BEING BROUGHT LOW. (in Y'SHUA MESSIAH).
and those who were poorest, REJOICED in
BEING RAISED UP (in Y'SHUA MESSIAH).

And all the needs of the poor were met, not ignored.

Do you think your version of Christianity is greater than that of the church at Jerusalem: which practised equality in selling their goods and sharing them equally?

 

[2 know him]

The ecclesia in the NEW TESTAMENT is a very very good example of how to live right, according to YHWH'S WORD, PLAN, PURPOSE and DIRECTIONS; and LIFE IN Y'SHUA.
But,
note that they did not share things equally.
More important:
NOT ONE OF THEM HAD A NEED UNMET. (food or clothes or a place to stay).
IF anyone owned 2 or more houses, and the needs were there among the brethren,
they would sell a house to meet the needs of their brethren,
without a "rule" saying they had to.
They were completely OVERJOYED,
and CONTINUALLY FILLED WITH PEACE, JOY and <<<<<<< RIGHTEOUSNESS>>>>>>>
every day - DAILY - every one.....
and those who were WEALTHY rejoiced IN BEING BROUGHT LOW. (in Y'SHUA MESSIAH).
and those who were poorest, REJOICED in
BEING RAISED UP (in Y'SHUA MESSIAH).

And all the needs of the poor were met, not ignored.

Thank-you for correcting my comment.

I think jimmyjimmy is upset with people on welfare who can but don't work... But I think he should be more upset with those who feel justified with taking large pieces of the pie for themselves, while others have less. It is the greed of the wealthy that cause the people to steal what the wealthy take by force: laws (rules) are made and enforced by those who enslave others.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It read like you meant what Scripture meant, so no worries at all, especially now as you agree.
I don't know what anyone else said or says about this nor about people on welfare, etc. (if I didn't just check in fact, I wouldn't know what thread this is on!) ...
What YHWH'S WORD says is what is important, and few care to find out - it cost them too much.
For instance, a few times recently it was posted or published "whenever JESUS calls a man, it is to die" ...
This is so completely true,
and so little ever done or known or admitted, other than the more frequent parroting "die to self! die to self!..." without actually being willing to be crucified with Christ to live by faith in HIM, YHWH accomplishing this as HIS WORD SAYS CLEARLY.
Instead, as you pointed out, "g.r.e.e.d." is the root of all sin , as Y'SHUA says, and it is even what keeps most people from ever becoming born again.
They cannot live as the believers in the NEW TESTAMENT did, nor can they even see YHWH'S KINGDOM or the life of Y'SHUA or the immeasurably great blessings of YHWH poured out thru Y'SHUA to all of HIS children born from above as HIS WORD SAYS,
unless they give up their earthly , carnal, sinful life/lives and call on HIM to be healed|saved|redeemed / given the power to be becoming children of YHWH ! (1 JOHN et al).

Just being a member of a worldly club is as far as most people ever get, if that far. (i.e. like the religious ones opposed to Jesus in the NEW TESTAMENT, seeking (and getting) the approval of men instead of the approval of YHWH(GOD) ) ....
SALVATION IS STILL OFFERED FREELY, without merit, to all who are willing. (it just turns out that like Jerusalem, as Jesus lamented was not willing, so also multitudes find the wide road to destruction more to their liking, than the narrow (painful) road to life).

Check later and see if anyone found out how many times "slave" is in the NEW TESTAMENT alone.

QUOTE="2 know him, post: 70615039, member: 297920" Thank-you for correcting my comment.

I think j....y is upset with people on welfare who can but don't work... But I think he should be more upset with those who feel justified with taking large pieces of the pie for themselves, while others have less. It is the greed of the wealthy that cause the people to steal what the wealthy take by force: laws (rules) are made and enforced by those who enslave others.QUOTE

 

[stephen583]

The scriptures make it plain that it is perfectly legal in the Mosaic law to own slaves that were NOT HEBREW in perpetuity.

As indicated in the earlier post, Hebrews were permitted under Mosaic Law to take "slaves" from the kingdoms they "conquered". However, they were not allowed to just go out and kidnap people from kingdoms they were not at war with, or foreigners travelling through their land, or take slaves from kingdoms with whom they entered into treaties with in the name of God.

So although you are technically correct, perpetual slavery of enemies was lawful under the rules of war, you have used this one passage (ignoring the full context) to make an erroneous argument that slavery in its' worst form was legal under Mosaic Law.. Which it expressly was not !

I also stand by my follow up statement. Hebrews were (under Mosaic Law) required to treat their "slaves" (whether Hebrew or not), fairly and with respect for them as also being God's creation. Cruelty, rape and the indiscriminate killing of slaves was never ever condoned by Mosaic Law. Not in ancient times, and not now either..

 

[stephen583]

.The modern day state of Israel operates an "Apartheid" system in which Palestinians are enslaved and deprived of fundamental human rights.

In order to access basic services (such as medical care, work and food), Palestinians are herded into barred and gated enclosures like cattle at Israeli checkpoints. Pregnant women have given birth to children under these inhumane conditions.

During the numerous Israel military incursions into Gaza and the West Bank, Palestinian (civilian noncombatants) men, women and children have been killed by IDF soldiers.

Palestinian shops, schools, medical facilities and homes have been systematically leveled in the West Bank to make way for "illegal" Israeli settlements.

And again, as I pointed out earlier.. some of these Palestinians are Christians ! So good luck trying to use Mosaic Law to deflect any responsibility and justifying the worst kind of slavery imaginable.

 

[tienkhoanguyen]

Defining slavery as the forceful use of one person to serve the purpose of another, is slavery an acceptable practice?

Does God approve of it?

Is it acceptable under certain circumstances?

Why is it wrong?

I personally think that everyone has to chip in for each other. If nothing else their own weight. In The Holy Bible there is what is called manservants and maidservants. In modern times it is called an employee. Although live-in maids are similar it is the same concept. The Holy Bible shows everyone goes through the same sequence of events. First you are a lower person on the totum pole. Then with time you advance into more experiences just by living life. Even a kid is like a slave since all kids must work 6 days out of the week. In the USA you go to school and learn a skill 5 days out of the week. Hopefully in all your kindergarden through high school years you learned enough to get by and be able to not be that much of a burden. Those who are successful end up producing much and bringing in value for the family in the world. Some people choose to be private and not associate with the world. They don't need public approval.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Defining slavery as the forceful use of one person to serve the purpose of another, is slavery an acceptable practice?

Does God approve of it?

Is it acceptable under certain circumstances?

Why is it wrong?

Do to others as you'd have them do to you. Easy.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Defining slavery as the forceful use of one person to serve the purpose of another, is slavery an acceptable practice?

Does God approve of it?

Is it acceptable under certain circumstances?

Why is it wrong?

There are two sets of laws that regulate slavery in the modern world: The Christian Law found in the Bible and Sharia Law found in the Quran. Under the Law of Moses you have indentured servants that sign a 7 year contract. In the event of war a person from a foreign country can be keep as a slave for 49 years but slavery does not pass from generation to generation. The slavery we had in the south was based on Muslim law. They bought the slaves from Muslims in Africa. If they had followed Moses and the Bible then they would have had to release them in 7 years. Slavery is a shadow and a type of the bondage that people put themselves in when they sin. They think they are free to do what they want and they do not realize what a slave they are to the bondage they are in.

As others have mentioned we now live under grace. So we are free from the law of God and we have the love, mercy, grace and forgiveness of God. IF we reject the Grace of God then we put ourselves into bondage and we are under the law. The problem is when we try to justify ourselves because it is only God that can justify us. In the story of the Pharisees and the Tax collector, it was the tax collector that was accepted by God and not the Pharisees who tried to justify himself.

11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I receive.’ 13 But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’…

14 I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”…Luke 18

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do to others as you'd have them do to you. Easy.

Some people say we are going to be treated the way we treat others. I am afraid to do something to others that I do not want them to do to me. Some call this Karma and in the streets they say what goes around comes around. A proverb meaning: the consequences of one's actions will have to be dealt with eventually. The Bible refers to that as sowing and reaping.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So outside of any laws which a government might make to support the practice, it's inherently wrong, is what you are saying.

Civilization cannot survive without laws.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Or do you argue for the reinstation of slavery laws in order to make legal the slavery that still exists?

China has a one week holiday once a year. People have the opportunity to go home and visit their family. 20% of the people do not return to their job. So at least once a year they are given the opportunity to walk away from their job. Although for most the choice is either factory work or build the infrastructure. Farming just does not pay as much in comparison.