Is repentance required for salvation?

[dms1972]

going back to the topic, repentance is not just admittance of sin but acknowledgement of who God is (holy and righteous) and we are not. it is also turning one's back from sin with remorse, and forward towards holiness, towards God. the word 'repentance' has motion, has movement, a person acts. it is not static or just lips service. this action testifies to ones faith in Christ, AND God working in one's life.

all that said, my position is: a saved person repents, and not repent so as to be saved.

our salvation hinges on regeneration (totally God's work),
and not repentance which follows it.

I don't know if the OP followed the thread, she liked the first reply, and didn't respond to acknowledge any others. I have no idea if she understands what has been said in several of the replies, and the importance of ongoing repentance.

So replying to your comment which I think is very well articulated I wanted to ask as people speak of salvation most of the time in the past tense whether this is correct?. To me salvation applied is an ongoing thing. Salvation accomplished is once for all, but as long as Christ remains outside of us all he done for our salvation is of no benefit to us.

"And the first thing to be attended to is, that so long as we are without Christ and separated from him, nothing which he suffered and did for the salvation of the human race is of the least benefit to us. To communicate to us the blessings which he received from the Father, he must become ours and dwell in us."

"... when we attribute the origin of repentance to faith, we do not dream of some period of time in which faith is to give birth to it: we only wish to show that a man cannot seriously engage in repentance unless he know that he is of God. But no man is truly persuaded that he is of God until he have embraced his offered favor." Calvin's Institutes Book Three.

Theological polemics have emphasised faith and minimized hope and love, the other two scriptural and theological virtues that are rooted in God's Grace in Jesus Christ. Faith basically agrees with what God has revealed - Who He is, His character, our sinfulness, our need His mercy and forgiveness, and His power to save. Hope is what keeps us moving forwards, running the race.

I have to say that since starting to read the Bible which contains the whole counsel of God and not merely listening to the little Gospel sound bites some repeat, I think the message of the Bible and the Reformation is being seriously distorted at times in these as I call them little "sound bite" versions of the Gospel.

No one is saved by giving a mere notional assent to a doctrine of justification.

If there is no repentance (to some extent) following there was no faith.

…4since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;… Colossians 1:4-6

 

[Geralt]

i have to agree. i discussed with a priest once, and his argument against justification by 'faith alone' is that it leaves people to be lawless or irresponsible.

but i always have to point out to them that IF God Saves people, He Also Changes Them.

the thief doesn't steal anymore, the homosexuals are no longer homosexuals, etc..

it is impossible to separate this works of God in a person's life, they are sequential.

everyone who disagrees with justification by FO alone thinks God leaves them to their own lives. without the understanding that what 'God has started He shall complete until the end', you can either have at one extreme, the antinomians and on the other extreme, legalism.

I don't know if the OP followed the thread, she liked the first reply, and didn't respond to acknowledge any others. I have no idea if she understands what has been said in several of the replies, and the importance of ongoing repentance.

So replying to your comment which I think is very well articulated I wanted to ask as people speak of salvation most of the time in the past tense whether this is correct?. To me salvation applied is an ongoing thing. Salvation accomplished is once for all, but as long as Christ remains outside of us all he done for our salvation is of no benefit to us.

"And the first thing to be attended to is, that so long as we are without Christ and separated from him, nothing which he suffered and did for the salvation of the human race is of the least benefit to us. To communicate to us the blessings which he received from the Father, he must become ours and dwell in us."

"... when we attribute the origin of repentance to faith, we do not dream of some period of time in which faith is to give birth to it: we only wish to show that a man cannot seriously engage in repentance unless he know that he is of God. But no man is truly persuaded that he is of God until he have embraced his offered favor." Calvin's Institutes Book Three.

Theological polemics have emphasised faith and minimized hope and love, the other two scriptural and theological virtues that are rooted in God's Grace in Jesus Christ. Faith basically agrees with what God has revealed - Who He is, His character, our sinfulness, our need His mercy and forgiveness, and His power to save. Hope is what keeps us moving forwards, running the race.

I have to say that since starting to read the Bible which contains the whole counsel of God and not merely listening to the little Gospel sound bites some repeat, I think the message of the Bible and the Reformation is being seriously distorted at times in these as I call them little "sound bite" versions of the Gospel.

No one is saved by giving a mere notional assent to a doctrine of justification.

If there is no repentance (to some extent) following there was no faith.

…4since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;… Colossians 1:4-6

 

[Lik3]

I don't know if the OP followed the thread, she liked the first reply, and didn't respond to acknowledge any others. I have no idea if she understands what has been said in several of the replies, and the importance of ongoing repentance.

So replying to your comment which I think is very well articulated I wanted to ask as people speak of salvation most of the time in the past tense whether this is correct?. To me salvation applied is an ongoing thing. Salvation accomplished is once for all, but as long as Christ remains outside of us all he done for our salvation is of no benefit to us.

"And the first thing to be attended to is, that so long as we are without Christ and separated from him, nothing which he suffered and did for the salvation of the human race is of the least benefit to us. To communicate to us the blessings which he received from the Father, he must become ours and dwell in us."

"... when we attribute the origin of repentance to faith, we do not dream of some period of time in which faith is to give birth to it: we only wish to show that a man cannot seriously engage in repentance unless he know that he is of God. But no man is truly persuaded that he is of God until he have embraced his offered favor." Calvin's Institutes Book Three.

Theological polemics have emphasised faith and minimized hope and love, the other two scriptural and theological virtues that are rooted in God's Grace in Jesus Christ. Faith basically agrees with what God has revealed - Who He is, His character, our sinfulness, our need His mercy and forgiveness, and His power to save. Hope is what keeps us moving forwards, running the race.

I have to say that since starting to read the Bible which contains the whole counsel of God and not merely listening to the little Gospel sound bites some repeat, I think the message of the Bible and the Reformation is being seriously distorted at times in these as I call them little "sound bite" versions of the Gospel.

No one is saved by giving a mere notional assent to a doctrine of justification.

If there is no repentance (to some extent) following there was no faith.

…4since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;… Colossians 1:4-6

I do need to follow up and read up on your comments. Thanks. Anyway, I have been having doubts off and on over the years. That is why I asked if repentance is a part of salvation.

 

[dms1972]

Thankyou for your comments Geralt

I understand it to be that Justification and Sanctification are basically something a believer has in Union with Christ, and I heard it used to be taught that one cannot be in union with 'half a Christ'. Not sure who it was that said that.

But as regards some of the other other posts all these questions about individual predestination seem mostly pointless to me. Interestingly Calvin said it was very unwise for the curious to probe into this 'dark mystery', and wrote:

"let us not be ashamed to be ignorant in a matter in which ignorance is learning. Rather let us willingly abstain from the search after knowledge, to which it is both foolish as well as perilous, and even fatal to aspire. If an unrestrained imagination urges us, our proper course is to oppose it with these words, 'It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory.'" (Prvbs 25:27)

To me the important thing is experiencing and responding to the inner pull of the Holy Spirit when reading the Bible, or at Church. I haven't bothered with the doctrine of Predestination since hearing others counsel against pre-occupation with it.

So if even Calvin counselled that, I don't think its wrong for me to ask "why so much talk about predestination?"

I also think one has to have attempted a moral life on some lines whether the classical virtues or recognition of the Tao or striving to live conscientiously, or one cannot really acknowledge their helplessness - one begins in some way and perhaps after a couple of months they realise they cannot keep going in their own power, or perhaps they are back to square one. Then one is placed to really say "I cannot save myself." and to seek salvation in Christ. But even at that moment one isn't instantly transformed into a paragon of virtue.

I'd say that no one can dogmatise a conversion experience. I cannot know what God might do for someone in their conversion, maybe some massive issues they have had are dealt with. Maybe with others their conversion is more prolonged - I read a while back Mario Bergner's testimony in his book Setting Love in Order. He became a christian in his teens, and though he struggled with several issues stemming from his early years, he finally repented of the sins involved during a Gospel service when heard an invitation for anyone needing to be reconciled to God to come forward for prayer.

 

[dms1972]

I do need to follow up and read up on your comments. Thanks. Anyway, I have been having doubts off and on over the years. That is why I asked if repentance is a part of salvation.

You are not alone in that, everyone has had doubts. I have them, even not very long ago. I am trying to keep going inspite of this.

I think we all experience periods of greater assurance, and other times of uncertainty because sin still can be a factor in our lives till we die.

That book by John White (Changing on the Inside) is one of the best recent books on Repentance - it will explain it much better than it is possible to explain in a Forum post, and its far more Pastoral than theological. For instance if you still are unsure about the Grace or willpower issue, he addresses that.

Two songs by christians have really helped me at times:

One is Steps of Faith By Margaret Becker
The other Thy Word by Amy Grant


If I haven't helped I hope maybe those will.

 

[Serving Zion]

I do need to follow up and read up on your comments. Thanks. Anyway, I have been having doubts off and on over the years. That is why I asked if repentance is a part of salvation.

Hi Lik3,

Yes, salvation is the word describing one who has chosen to live repentantly and who has a healthy relationship with God because He approves of their heart, mind and attitudes.

There is no salvation without repentance, because such one is choosing to live against God's expectations of them (that is the definition of sin).

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is [...] not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Look at these too:

Matthew 7:21
Luke 6:46
1 John 1:6
Genesis 4:7

Romans 1:28-32 describes a lot of Christians - why?

 

[Serving Zion]

This is something that I have just wondered about. I know and believe that we are saved by faith. If we are to repent as well, would that mean that repentance is a work or that God only saves once we repent? I believe that we are saved by faith because of His grace. Would repentance be required to be saved? In other words, is repentance required for salvation or is it just faith and then later repentance? In your opinion, is repentance being required for salvation biblical or is that a work that is added to faith?

I remembered you today as I watched this, beginning about 36 minutes: