Is "Pro-Choice" the right "choice" for a Christian to make? Why or why not?

[St_Worm2]

I was a junior in high school when "Roe" became the law of the land. And for the next 13 years I was by choice, "Pro-Choice", and I remember not giving that decision a second thought. Abortion, from the first time I heard of it, seemed to make sense to me. I wasn't sexually active at the time, so I didn't have a personal stake in it, but I can remember that I approved of it as if it had always been the way of things (when, of course, it hadn't been).

But a miracle happened to me 13 years later. On November, 2nd, 1986, I became a Christian, and EVERYTHING changed (which included how I felt about abortion). For the first time in my life I became aware of (and now know Biblically) how intimately involved God is in bringing each new life into this world.

So my first questions are these, how do "Pro-Choice" Christians justify being "Pro-Choice" before God? Do you believe that God approves of abortion in most or all cases and, if you do, why do you believe that? Also, if your position is, "I personally disapprove of abortion, but will not judge someone else who has an abortion", please justify your claim with a Christian argument."

Thanks everyone, let's begin

Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - Just to be clear from the get-go, I believe that in the very rare case of a pregnancy that poses a real and immediate threat to the mother's life, attending physicians must do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child. But if that is not possible, and the physicians decide that both baby and mother will be tragically lost if they do not intervene, then the mother's life, of course, must be spared. For more information about this, please go here.

"He will be filled with the Holy Spirit
while yet in his mother’s womb"
Luke 1:15c​

 

[redleghunter]

I'm pro-Life.

Life begins with conception and the OT testifies this.

Genesis 5 New King James Version (NKJV)

5 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh.7 After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.

9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died.

As revealed as early as Genesis 5 we see new life described by the act of fathering a child and not birth or brain function etc.

It's all in the begat, begets and begot.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/begat

 

[St_Worm2]

Hey there Pro-Choice Christians, this thread won't work without you posting in it Please come join in and let your opinions and beliefs be known

Thanks!!

--David

 

[George95]

Test.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you believe that God approves of abortion in most or all cases and, if you do, why do you believe that? Also, if your position is, "I personally disapprove of abortion, but will not judge someone else who has an abortion", please justify your claim with a Christian argument."

Decide abortion issues for others, just as much as
you would wish them to decide abortion issues for you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

 

[St_Worm2]

edit: All and all, this was just too snippy of a post for me to leave up, sorry about that. Here's my revised post:

God bless you

 

[FireDragon76]

The independent, liberal catholic church I used to attend had an unusual but creative stance on the issue. They refused to take a political stance. In the case of that particular church, the pastor lost a baby sitter to an illegal abortion, and his moral deliberation was part of the (relatively small) synod's decision. He was criticized by some local Roman Catholic clergy for refusing to participate in protests at clinics. But the church made a collection regularly for a ministry for pregnant mothers and regarded abortion as something that was not the Christian ideal.

The pastor was committed to a church that was a place for healing, not politics. Sometimes we must live with a tension without resolution as Christians. It's not easy, but perhaps it is more faithful than being self-righteous and being the self-appointed judge of all things.

 

[redleghunter]

But the church made a collection regularly for a ministry for pregnant mothers and regarded abortion as something that was not the Christian ideal.

Which is a most productive way to give a person the correct and just alternative.

Which pro Life Christians have been doing for a very long time.

 

[FireDragon76]

Which is a most productive way to give a person the correct and just alternative.

Which pro Life Christians have been doing for a very long time.

I'd like to see more private action, less politics. Particularly ways for people to process their grief and frustration. I think what some Catholics do by having memorials is a good example. In Japan they do something similar with their Buddhist religious practices and memorials for the unborn and miscarried. It also moves the issue beyond abortion to dealing with miscarriage, which much of society does not understand the woman's POV.

 

[brinny]

I was a junior in high school when "Roe" became the law of the land. And for the next 13 years I was by choice, "Pro-Choice", and I remember not giving that decision a second thought. Abortion, from the first time I heard of it, seemed to make sense to me. I wasn't sexually active at the time, so I didn't have a personal stake in it, but I can remember that I approved of it as if it had always been the way of things (when, of course, it hadn't been).

But a miracle happened to me 13 years later. On November, 2nd, 1986, I became a Christian, and EVERYTHING changed (which included how I felt about abortion). For the first time in my life I became aware of (and now know Biblically) how intimately involved God is in bringing each new life into this world.

So my first questions are these, how do "Pro-Choice" Christians justify being "Pro-Choice" before God? Do you believe that God approves of abortion in most or all cases and, if you do, why do you believe that? Also, if your position is, "I personally disapprove of abortion, but will not judge someone else who has an abortion", please justify your claim with a Christian argument."

Thanks everyone, let's begin

Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - Just to be clear from the get-go, I believe that in the very rare case of a pregnancy that poses a real and immediate threat to the mother's life, attending physicians must do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child. But if that is not possible, and the physicians decide that both baby and mother will be tragically lost if they do not intervene, then the mother's life, of course, must be spared. For more information about this, please go here.

"He will be filled with the Holy Spirit
while yet in his mother’s womb"
Luke 1:15c​

I've always believed that babies are live human beings upon conception, just of course, smaller, and i believed this before i became a Christian. I believed the "littler" a person was, the more they needed protection.

I think it's because i've always had this uncanny sort of empathy or something of putting myself in the others shoes. If i was a small little tiny smidgen of a person, i'd want someone to protect me and not let me get hurt.

I'm with Dr. Seuss on this one:

“A person's a person, no matter how small.” ~Dr. Seuss

 

[St_Worm2]

The independent, liberal catholic church I used to attend had an unusual but creative stance on the issue. They refused to take a political stance. In the case of that particular church, the pastor lost a baby sitter to an illegal abortion, and his moral deliberation was part of the (relatively small) synod's decision. He was criticized by some local Roman Catholic clergy for refusing to participate in protests at clinics. But the church made a collection regularly for a ministry for pregnant mothers and regarded abortion as something that was not the Christian ideal.

The pastor was committed to a church that was a place for healing, not politics. Sometimes we must live with a tension without resolution as Christians. It's not easy, but perhaps it is more faithful than being self-righteous and being the self-appointed judge of all things.

Hi FD, when did the "sin" of murder (or any other sin for that matter) become a "political" rather than a "moral" problem for our society (much less the church), or for the hundreds of millions of unborn children worldwide who have lost their lives to abortion? I guess I agree that it has come to be looked upon as such, and that's a big part of the problem

The loss of your pastor's baby sitter to an illegal abortion is a horrible thing, a tragedy that should never have happened, but should the loss of even a single unborn child to abortion be considered any less tragic?

 

[FireDragon76]

Hi FD, when did the "sin" of murder (or any other sin for that matter) become a "political" rather than a "moral" problem for our society (or for the hundreds of millions of unborn children worldwide who have lost their lives to abortion so far)? I guess I agree that it has come to be looked at as such, and that's a big part of the problem

The loss of your pastor's baby sitter to an illegal abortion is a horrible thing, a tragedy that should never have happened, but should the loss of even a single unborn child to abortion be considered any less tragic?

No. But he wasn't focused on the transformation of society into something "godly". That's more of a Calvinist theme than a Catholic or Lutheran one. You might see it as defeatist, he just saw it as being realistic. The Church being the hospital for sinners, not boot camp for the righteous.

 

[St_Worm2]

No. But he wasn't focused on the transformation of society into something "godly". That's more of a Calvinist theme than a Catholic or Lutheran one. You might see it as defeatist, he just saw it as being realistic. The Church being the hospital for sinners, not boot camp for the righteous.

Hi FD, I don't know anyone personally, be they Roman Catholic, Lutheran, or any other sect for that matter, who takes a "political" stance on abortion because they hope to, "transform society in something godly". That's NEVER been our intention or the thing that motivates our hearts where abortion is concerned.

For everyone that I know on the Pro-Life side, it begins and ends with people's lives (and the affect that that abortion has, to one degree or another, on everyone). Granted, we are most concerned with those who are most "affected" by abortion, those who have no "choice" in the matter, no say-so about whether they live or die for the sake of someone else's "convenience" (which, BTW, remains the sole reason that mothers choose to abort their children more than 99% of the time). This isn't a political issue, no matter how much the world (with the help of its "prince") tries to convince itself that it is! Rather, it's sin, which always was and always will be a "moral" issue

We know that society, which is non-Christian, will NEVER be effectively/truly "transformed" politically or morally into anything resembling "godliness" this side of Christ's return and reign, but that doesn't mean that we should start considering sin as something that is simply, "less the ideal". Do you believe the One we serve has ever considered it so? (the Cross quickly ends any speculation about that)

The church has always been/will always be a place of healing and restoration for sinners, but it must also continue to be a place that considers the "truth" as something that is equally important, because it cannot be a place of healing and restoration APART from the truth. As the Bible clearly tells us:

"Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth" .. 1 Corinthians 13:6​

That said, why should our teaching that sins can and will be forgiven in Christ on the one hand mean that we need to teach that sin is really "no big deal" on the other Quite frankly, if we begin to teach that sin should simply be seen as something that is, "less than the Christian ideal", then that's all that sin will ever amount in the hearts and the minds of those who desperately need to know the truth.

Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - I can't speak for Lutherans, but Roman Catholics continue to be a majority presence in the Pro-Life movement. Their desire to take a public stance in the face of this sin, with the hope that at least some of the lives that would otherwise be lost to abortion might be saved, can hardly be considered, "Calvinistic".

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm not sure I see your point. The pastor never indicated he was OK with abortion. I think he was looking for more practical ways to respond to abortion, ones that did not compromise the integrity of his overall witness. I realize his response may be harder to understand to someone conditioned to accept only abstract concepts of justice, because his response is based on a concrete ethic of care, but that doesn't mean I find it an inappropriate response. I see it as a realistic response given overall Christian ethical values.

 

[Paidiske]

I wouldn't describe myself as pro-choice, exactly. I believe abortion is wrong.

However, I don't promote making it illegal again, because the evidence is that when it's illegal it still happens, only with much worse outcomes. You could say I take a harm-minimisation approach.

It might be worth noting that I've moved on this. I used to be very "abortion should be illegal, we should make it as difficult as possible," in my approach. I've since provided care to people at all stages of the journey - from contemplating an abortion to having had one long ago - and I have more compassion for the difficulty of that journey, the costliness, the pain. I have no appetite for making that even harder than it is.

 

[St_Worm2]

I'm not sure I see your point. The pastor never indicated he was OK with abortion. I think he was looking for more practical ways to respond to abortion, ones that did not compromise the integrity of his overall witness. I realize his response may be harder to understand to someone conditioned to accept only abstract concepts of justice, because his response is based on a concrete ethic of care, but that doesn't mean I find it an inappropriate response. I see it as a realistic response given overall Christian ethical values.

I don't believe that conservative Christians, who seek to tell people the truth about sin and its consequences, can be said to have nothing more than an, "abstract concept of justice", especially considering that we are also the ones who reveal the Remedy, a Remedy who is both freely and presently available to all who have sinned.

Those who sin need to understand just how seriously God sees their sin, and it seems to me that simply telling them that it is, "less than the Christian ideal", will never get the point across. Christianity is about "the Good News", but the necessity of the Gospel can never be expressed apart from the reality of the "bad news" (which is the very "news" that made the Incarnation and the Cross an absolute necessity).

Why is revealing the truth about sin and its consequences, and thereby our need for the Savior, not seen as something that we should "rejoice" in (and as the only thing that is truly "loving" where others are concerned), because apart from knowing the truth about this sin, the lives of those who are involved in abortion, both physical (AND spiritual .. where the moms are concerned), will continue to be lost in increasing numbers (just like this world's "prince" intends them to be).

Yours in Christ,
David

"Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness,
but rejoices with the truth"
1 Cor 13:6​

 

[RDKirk]

No. But he wasn't focused on the transformation of society into something "godly". That's more of a Calvinist theme than a Catholic or Lutheran one.

That's absolutely a Catholic stance, as I've discovered upon engaging Catholics on the issue of separation of Church and State.

 

[RDKirk]

Which is a most productive way to give a person the correct and just alternative.

Which pro Life Christians have been doing for a very long time.

A minority. In fact, a former pastor of a megachurch I attended a few years ago was forced out because he took that stance.

 

[RDKirk]

Hi FD, when did the "sin" of murder (or any other sin for that matter) become a "political" rather than a "moral" problem for our society

When earthly governments started defining their own legal differences between socially acceptable homicide and socially unacceptable homicide.

 

[redleghunter]

A minority. In fact, a former pastor of a megachurch I attended a few years ago was forced out because he took that stance.

On the contrary, being quite involved in Evangelical community I've seen great charity and love with respect to helping women before and after the birth. The family life pastors also do good work with women who have had abortions. We don't hear much because many of these churches won't let the left hand know what the right is doing.

Any Google search can show these ministries in all 50 states. From pregnancy crisis centers, shelters and adoptive services to post birth academies of education and job placement.

Here's a sampling:

Christian Pregnancy Services and After Care:

Just a few examples here:

https://cmda.org/resources/publication/crisis-pregnancy-centers
Pregnancy Centers in PA
Listing Of Crisis Pregnancy Centers In Illinois
Christian Life Resources
Special Delivery | Overlake Christian Church
Top 10 Non Profit Organizations that help Mothers
Creating a Cradle Care Ministry for Expectant & New Parents

These are a few examples of Christian ministries which span all 50 states.

Sanctuary of Hope:

https://www.jhm.org/SOHCares
The above is a grand scale example of after and future care. Others include Catholic charities and Samaritans Purse.

Becoming Adoptive Parents - FAQs
Counseling
Help Protect Vulnerable Women


Here's just one example of a conservative Evangelical charitable organization's ministry:


Help Families Fleeing the Fighting in Mosul

Emergency Field Hospital Sent as Christmas Gift to Iraq

Loving Care for an Orphan | Samaritan’s Purse Gift Catalog

A Brighter Future for Ebola Widows

Women’s Programs

Crisis & Disaster Response

Feeding Programs

Health & Medical Ministries

Water, Sanitation & Hygiene

Children’s Heart Project

Putting a Stop to Human Trafficking

Deadly Earthquake in Nepal

U.S. Disaster Relief