Is our Lord Jesus Christ and Christmas just Chalk and Cheese?

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Elijah2

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“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Cor. 6:14-18)

“For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Master. Walk as children of light – for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, and righteousness, and truth – proving what is well-pleasing to the Master. And have no fellowship with the fruitless works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of what is done by them in secret. But all matters being reproved are manifested by the light, for whatever is manifested is light. That is why He says, “Wake up, you who sleep, and arise from the dead, and Messiah shall shine on you.” (Eph. 5:8-14)

Over the past decade it has become mind-boggling, when out of the corner of our eye while driving past churches, the new emerging churches, we see extolled in HUGE white letters the words across their churches: “Merry Christmas”, and and a “Christmas light display” designed to lure only the community via a gold coin donation, and has nothing to do with our Lord Jesus Christ.

Link here: http://www.adam.com.au/moriah/textar...istlessmas.htm
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Bless you Elijah2 for this. Unfortunately the majority of christians just arent ready for the truth of this at the moment.

Also if you take away their pagan holiday they dont think they have anything to replace it with to celebrate the birth of Jesus.


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jiminpa

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Most theologians agree that the true date of His birth was late September or early October. The Scriptures, however, are specifically silent on this.

There are many God ordained festivals and feasts to be celebrated but Y’shuah’s birthday is not one of them. When one considers that all of the Jewish festivals (the Feast of Trumpets, the Passover, etc.) are prophetic indicators of the coming Messiah, His mission on earth, and His pending millennial reign, the celebration of Christmas is all the more ridiculous. Of the seven Jewish Feasts, four have been fulfilled in Christ – the Passover Supper (the Last Supper), the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the Crucifixion) the Feast of First fruits (The Resurrection), and the Feast of Pentecost (the impartation of the Holy Spirit in the upper room). There are three remaining, the Feast of Trumpets (Armageddon), the Day of Atonement (Great White Throne Judgment) and the Feast of Tabernacles (when Y’shua comes to live with His people bodily on earth in His millennial reign). Compare this with the trite festival of ‘Christmas’ with all of its tinsel, lights and frivolity, which, according to the pagans who celebrate it, refers to the coming of their anti-Christ.
know is wrong, but that which also grieves our Heavenly Father?”
I see John the Baptist, and Messiah's birth fulfilling "the feast of trumpets", and "the feast of tabernacles," not that there can't be multiple fulfillments of those type of prophesies.

I don't go insane over people celebrating Christmas either. For me it is more cultural now, like Thanksgivng. It still reminds me of the importance of family and friends, and is a nice celebration to break up the cold weather.
 
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cyberlizard

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Obscure Messianic Title: Green Tree (don't look for it in the NIV, as the NIV kills it completely.)

even though the vast majority of believers do readily acknowledge christmas has nothing to do (historically) with the birth of Jesus the Christ, it is generally felt, at least according to the people i talk with that christmas is a wonderful witnessing tool.... i say witness to the truth of who Jesus was (a Jew), which feast is coming was best associated with (succot) and use that as a witnessing tool.

christianity is more than happy to perpetuate a myth if it serves their purpose... a justifiable lie so to speak.... personally i do not see it as justifiable - it is not a life and death issue.

so before anyone spouts off with not judging one another about days, just remember that the idea of christmas was not even an idea, and to impose or attempt to include christmas within the argument of this verse is a complete non-starter, from a historical and biblical basis.

For me, the biblical feasts pointed forwards to Jesus before he came, pointed to him whilst he was here, and continue to point towards him in the future... and point to him in the age to come...



Steve

p.s. if you want to celebrate christmas, all well and good, but at least have the guts and the gall to remove the unneccessary and idolatrous aspects and practices associated with it.
 
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Prizm

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Most of us are aware that Christmas was based on a pagan holiday. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that actually celebrates a pagan deity on this day. The relation is simply not there anymore. When people think of Christmas, they think Christian holiday, birth of Christ, etc. The connotation of pagan gods is simply non-existent. Non-biblical traditions, yes, but pagan gods, no.

I think as Christians, we'd do more harm than good to not celebrate Christmas. We'd constantly get asked why, and we'd have to delve into a history lesson about pagan religion, and blah blah blah about why we don't just choose to acknowledge the birth of Christ on this day as most other Christians do. Even though we know it's not the actual day. We'd be seen as having problems with other Christians who simply celebrate the birth of Christ on that day. It would just cause meaningless disputes and arguments, and we won't really be a witness for Christ.

For many unsaved family members and friends, Christmas and Easter is the only time they'll come to church. We should seize that opportunity to bring them along and let them hear the real gospel. Or it's the only time certain family members all get together in one place. Again, a great opportunity to be an example for Christ. I believe Christians would do themselves a disservice if they stopped acknowledging the birth of Christ on Christmas day.

The western world stops in its tracks on this day, and it's not because of a pagan god. It's because Christians around the world decide to acknowledge Jesus Christ on this day. Sure, unbelievers use the opportunity for commercialism or whatever else, but no one will deny the reason behind it is still Jesus Christ.
 
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Elijah2

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Obscure Messianic Title: Green Tree (don't look for it in the NIV, as the NIV kills it completely.)

even though the vast majority of believers do readily acknowledge christmas has nothing to do (historically) with the birth of Jesus the Christ, it is generally felt, at least according to the people i talk with that christmas is a wonderful witnessing tool.... i say witness to the truth of who Jesus was (a Jew), which feast is coming was best associated with (succot) and use that as a witnessing tool.

christianity is more than happy to perpetuate a myth if it serves their purpose... a justifiable lie so to speak.... personally i do not see it as justifiable - it is not a life and death issue.

so before anyone spouts off with not judging one another about days, just remember that the idea of christmas was not even an idea, and to impose or attempt to include christmas within the argument of this verse is a complete non-starter, from a historical and biblical basis.

For me, the biblical feasts pointed forwards to Jesus before he came, pointed to him whilst he was here, and continue to point towards him in the future... and point to him in the age to come...



Steve

p.s. if you want to celebrate christmas, all well and good, but at least have the guts and the gall to remove the unneccessary and idolatrous aspects and practices associated with it.


Thanks Steve,

Those photos in the article is of one of those such churches of over 4000 in their congregation, and there are many other churches exactly the same. I am sure what I've posted is enough truth to consider that these churches spend much money and more time on Santa, which use of the same letters as "Satan", than the real reason, our Lord Jesus Christ.

By the way, the churches wouldn't have the guts and gall to remove that stuff, because it would make them uncomfortable, and they would lose patronage.
 
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Elijah2

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Most of us are aware that Christmas was based on a pagan holiday. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that actually celebrates a pagan deity on this day. The relation is simply not there anymore. When people think of Christmas, they think Christian holiday, birth of Christ, etc. The connotation of pagan gods is simply non-existent. Non-biblical traditions, yes, but pagan gods, no.

I think as Christians, we'd do more harm than good to not celebrate Christmas. We'd constantly get asked why, and we'd have to delve into a history lesson about pagan religion, and blah blah blah about why we don't just choose to acknowledge the birth of Christ on this day as most other Christians do. Even though we know it's not the actual day. We'd be seen as having problems with other Christians who simply celebrate the birth of Christ on that day. It would just cause meaningless disputes and arguments, and we won't really be a witness for Christ.

For many unsaved family members and friends, Christmas and Easter is the only time they'll come to church. We should seize that opportunity to bring them along and let them hear the real gospel. Or it's the only time certain family members all get together in one place. Again, a great opportunity to be an example for Christ. I believe Christians would do themselves a disservice if they stopped acknowledging the birth of Christ on Christmas day.

The western world stops in its tracks on this day, and it's not because of a pagan god. It's because Christians around the world decide to acknowledge Jesus Christ on this day. Sure, unbelievers use the opportunity for commercialism or whatever else, but no one will deny the reason behind it is still Jesus Christ.


By the way those photos are of a very large church in Australia, and so what do you think they are promoting, I didn't see any mention of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They don't intentionally celebrate a pagan holiday, but they promote it to the expense of the real reason, and spend a lot of money just to promote their church and not our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mate, this is all about a one world religion. And it's time we got back to the REAL MESSAGE.
 
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irenemcg

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You know first and foremost we need to celebrate Christ Jesus, and spend time in prayer over the Christmas period , a lot of things the enemy loves, many mid week prayer meetings in churches are closed for the holidays, he gets us busy with the Christmas shop, , then all the fun and business of Christmas day, let it be Christmas - not XMAS. Celebrate Jesus today and every day.
 
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Elijah2

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You know first and foremost we need to celebrate Christ Jesus, and spend time in prayer over the Christmas period , a lot of things the enemy loves, many mid week prayer meetings in churches are closed for the holidays, he gets us busy with the Christmas shop, , then all the fun and business of Christmas day, let it be Christmas - not XMAS. Celebrate Jesus today and every day.

:amen:
 
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EternalSummer

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Now let's see...does my bible say anything about this sort of thing?
Hmm... (checking) ...

Romans 14:4-6a
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it ....


OK, so it basically says if you're cool with celebrating it, fine, go for it, and if you're not cool with it, then don't. But it doesn't matter either way, so there's no call for trying to make those celebrating feel guilty over it, any more than anyone should be trying to push others to celebrate it if they don't want to.

Basically Romans 14 says we should chill out and stop trying to bully-patrol everyone to control what they do. We should give it over to God and chill out. ;)
 
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zaksmummy

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Basically Romans 14 says we should chill out and stop trying to bully-patrol everyone to control what they do. We should give it over to God and chill out. ;)


Its not about bullying anyone, its about showing the truth.

What happens when God shows you that he doesnt like the paganism? Can you continue to celebrate something you know he doesnt like?

This happened to me, and by the looks of it to Elijah2 as well, please dont mistake his concern for bullying, he has written in a spirit of truth and love.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Now let's see...does my bible say anything about this sort of thing?
Hmm... (checking) ...
Romans 14:4-6a
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it ....

OK, so it basically says if you're cool with celebrating it, fine, go for it, and if you're not cool with it, then don't. But it doesn't matter either way, so there's no call for trying to make those celebrating feel guilty over it, any more than anyone should be trying to push others to celebrate it if they don't want to.

Basically Romans 14 says we should chill out and stop trying to bully-patrol everyone to control what they do. We should give it over to God and chill out. ;)

I don't see that anyone is being judged here.

Romans 14:4-6, as cyberlizard pointed out was not in referance to whether it was ok to celebrate a day especially set aside to celebrate a pagan god. The early believers in Jesus as Messiah would not even have considered such a thing.

For me, at this point in my walk with God, I don't take much issue with the celebration of Messiahs birth (even though it is an incorrect date) as I do the trappings of the pagan being mixed with the celebrating. I personally, don't see why a believer would "want" to have the trappings of a pagan festival as part of their celebration of Yeshua's birth. God says He hates it and tells us specifically not to do it. It may be the OT He says it in but He says He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. He also says He NEVER changes. :scratch: How Christians talk their way around that I will never understand.

God says "My people perish for lack of knowledge". We have the knowledge yet choose to continue to do it anyway.

Again, celebrating His birth is not really what I take issue with, it's the santa's (along with lying to the kids), the decorated trees, the spending, etc..


(Deut 12:2-4) You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree. 3 And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. 4 You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.
 
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EternalSummer

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Hey, if everyone else gets a chance to share their two cents, then so do I. I'm sticking with God's direct and trustworthy word to me in Romans 14. It hasn't failed me so far.

Not to mention, God has shown me specifically through this word in scripture (Romans 14) that I NEVER have to worry about these kinds of disputes for one single second in my life. I believe raising them goes against His direct word in Romans 14. I believe God has shown me that from His word as part of His goal to set me free -- because whom the Son sets free is free indeed -- not just from sin but from bondage to fear and multiplying rules (e.g. making bigger burdens on ourselves than we need to and calling it His service when HE says HIS yolke is EASY and His burden LIGHT).

So just as surely as you believe He's given you some important revelation that celebration of Christmas day is evil and should be shunned, I believe He has shown me directly from the scriptures that I don't have to listen to those kinds of things, nor pay them any mind or heed, nor allow them to dictate my relationship with Him or how I live my life before Him. It was for LIBERTY that Christ set us free, and I'm not about to be entangled again in any yolke of bondage. (Galatians 5:1)

So......... Merry Christmas to you and yours!
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I enjoy Christmas because of the family gathering, the fellowship, and the happy faces on the kids.
I personally do not feel grieved in my spirit at all.
Our nativity scene is firmly entrenched on our mantle, and nobody has any doubts that we are celebrating the birthday of our Lord Jesus on this earth. When we move back home to Sumter we plan on having a life size nativity scene on the front yard from Thanksgiving through Superbowl.
I realized the world has perverted this celebration for its own selfish and lustful desires. But as Christians we can make up and celebrate anything we want. The more Christ centered celebrations the better! We have lost to many of these as it is. I say more not less. I like the way the Catholics have a calendar of such days. Quaffer, I think the Messianics do also?​
 
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