Is not going to church a sin?

[muffler dragon]

For the OP, I figured I would shed some light:

I have not attended an 'organized church' for three years. It was at the leading of G-d and I fully trust what He is doing in my life. I have learned lessons that have nothing to do with a 'corporate body'. Furthermore, my growth has been exponential within the Word without listening to a guy at a podium.

For those who would like to categorize me as "acting in sin", "rocky soil", "backsliding", or anything that can be construed as a suffering upon my walk, then I fully invite you to show me in Scripture (in context) where your judgment upon me or anyone walking outside of an 'organized church' is doing so.

There is more of an admonition in Acts to attend synagogue and learn about "Moses" than there is to go to a weekly Sunday meeting and listen to a pastor/reverend/minister/bishop...

Shalom,

m.d.

 

[Rich48]

For the OP, I figured I would shed some light:

I have not attended an 'organized church' for three years. It was at the leading of G-d and I fully trust what He is doing in my life. I have learned lessons that have nothing to do with a 'corporate body'. Furthermore, my growth has been exponential within the Word without listening to a guy at a podium.

For those who would like to categorize me as "acting in sin", "rocky soil", "backsliding", or anything that can be construed as a suffering upon my walk, then I fully invite you to show me in Scripture (in context) where your judgment upon me or anyone walking outside of an 'organized church' is doing so.

There is more of an admonition in Acts to attend synagogue and learn about "Moses" than there is to go to a weekly Sunday meeting and listen to a pastor/reverend/minister/bishop...

Shalom,

m.d.

I will not accuse you of backsliding; however, I will tell you that you are missing a lot by not meeting with fellow Christians for worship at least once a week.

As to your last point, can you cite any scripture where GENTILES were told to attend a synagogue to learn about Moses? And if they ever were, the reason would be to learn that the Christ was, indeed, to come from the line of Judah.

Rich

 

[muffler dragon]

I will not accuse you of backsliding; however, I will tell you that you are missing a lot by not meeting with fellow Christians for worship at least once a week.

As to your last point, can you cite any scripture where GENTILES were told to attend a synagogue to learn about Moses? And if they ever were, the reason would be to learn that the Christ was, indeed, to come from the line of Judah.

Rich

I'll address your statements in reverse order:

B) Acts 15
13 After they had stopped speaking, (30) James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 "(31) Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15 "With this the words of (32) the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16
'(33) AFTER THESE THINGS (34) I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17
(35) SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES (36) WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18
(37) SAYS THE LORD, WHO (38) MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.
19 "Therefore it is (39) my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from (40) things contaminated by idols and from (41) fornication and from (42) what is strangled and from blood.
21 "For (43) Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

It was not a command, but instead what could be viewed as a recommendation. You have the four precursors: abstinence from idols, fornication, strangled animals, and blood. For further education and understanding in the Word of G-d, Ya'acov (James) states that these Gentiles can learn more about Moses (Law/Torah) since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

A) Worship once a week with fellow 'Christians'
There is probably a lot more that I could say about this particular topic, but I don't think it's all that conducive to the 'harmony' of the thread or the people who attend these forums. All I can share is that I had been involved in 'worship' at 'organized churches' before. I've been in the praise band, and I've shared in the 'ecstasy' of the 'corporate' element. However, I have not found, since my absence, that I have been found wanting in any regard towards this manner. My worship, instead, has taken a much more solemn and reverent approach. I stand in awe when I just think of G-d. He overwhelms me. This can happen at any moment, in any place, with anyone.

G-d has taken me out of the 'corporate' church. This was His choosing. I never had to acquiesce from that removal. I simply trust G-d, and that's what He asks of me. At this present time, and for as long as G-d deems fit, I probably won't bother attending again.

There simply is too much that I 'see' with opened eyes that I can't help but sit there and evaluate the problems. Granted, nothing is perfect. But G-d is, and He is the One alone that I will follow.

Shalom,

m.d.

 

[New_Wineskin]

G-d has taken me out of the 'corporate' church. This was His choosing. I never had to acquiesce from that removal. I simply trust G-d, and that's what He asks of me. At this present time, and for as long as G-d deems fit, I probably won't bother attending again.

There simply is too much that I 'see' with opened eyes that I can't help but sit there and evaluate the problems. Granted, nothing is perfect. But G-d is, and He is the One alone that I will follow.

Shalom,

m.d.

Of course , we are together in that . Go by the Lord's leading and not manmade traditions and laws designed to imprison .

 

[Bomber2k]

Apparently not so foolish to Christ, as I have shown, he felt selling everything you own was part of becoming perfect, and indeed is even rewarded in Heaven for doing so. I've seen this 'its not Gods will for you to be poor' line of reasoning before, usually from a TV preacher trying convince people to send him more money so he can get a new mercedes. Christ was concerned with being rich in spirit, not with worldy success and riches, with building heavenly treasures and not earthly. Worldly riches meant nothing to Him, and honestly, they shouldn't mean much to us, this life is short and you can't take it with you. As the saying goes "man does not live by bread alone....."


Of course, we all know it takes money to get around in this world, to print bibles, to make videos, etc etc. Where money becomes a problem is when we fail to put it to good use. When we decide to spend it on our selves for luxury and not to help others. Most of us probably fail miserably at that. Christ probably looks at our country and wonders how we can allow so many to be poor when we have so much. Something for the Christians driving fancy cars and living in nice big houses, and even myself with my nice thousand dollar computer, to think about. What we own and what we choose to do with our money should have purpose with Christ. He didn't give it to us just so we could have a merry old time making ourselves feel good.

Surely there are problems when you abuse money, but it is not God's will for Him to withold it from you. Remember that Solomon asked for wisdom, and what he got was a lot more than that. Aparently here God is not against rewarding with earthly riches.

I live my life without striving for earthly riches, but I would be offended if someone told me I was sinning if God had decided to give me earthly riches.

 

[newname]

the target is entering the kingdom of God, becoming an "overcomer", keeping the faith, victory over death, having eternal life instead of eternal death,

the true church is not built with man's hands, but by the power of God,

going to a denomination built by the hand's of man will not get you to reach the "target",

seek the kingdom of God, that is only built by God,

trust God, if you are seeking Him above everything else, he will guide you in what ever directions you need to go,

study His word and trust Him, follow Jesus Christ,

speaking truth by the Holy Spirit, only because of the mercy and compassion of God,
newname

 

[Starcrystal]

gailmac,
I actually like one on one fellowship more. It seemed as though everyone got all dressed up on Sunday to put on a good Sunday show, but after Sunday was over...nothing special.

To be honest, I am enjoying having a break from church....Not God....just the church games.

I ask God to show us a church that we will fit in to.

Amen to that!
One on one or small group fellowship is great! Jesus only had 12 disciples, though he taught multitudes as well. Home churches were mainly what existed in the early days. (I go to a home church with 6 - 8 people)
When man began to organise religion around Christ, it quenched the Spirit and all kinds of divisions & argumenst began. Probably what you mean by church games...

And NO! Its not a sin not to go to "church" as in attendance to a meeting in a building where a preacher speaks down at you. That verse in Hebrews about not forsaking fellowship has been abused terribly, and used to put a guilt trip on people to go to church.
True "church" is fellowship where 2 or more are gathered in Christs name. Thats what Jesus said, and so thats good enough for us!

 

[gailmac]

Amen to that!
One on one or small group fellowship is great! Jesus only had 12 disciples, though he taught multitudes as well. Home churches were mainly what existed in the early days. (I go to a home church with 6 - 8 people)
When man began to organise religion around Christ, it quenched the Spirit and all kinds of divisions & argumenst began. Probably what you mean by church games...

And NO! Its not a sin not to go to "church" as in attendance to a meeting in a building where a preacher speaks down at you. That verse in Hebrews about not forsaking fellowship has been abused terribly, and used to put a guilt trip on people to go to church.
True "church" is fellowship where 2 or more are gathered in Christs name. Thats what Jesus said, and so thats good enough for us!

Thanks for your encouragment and your private message. I agree 100% with you. I have been treated so poorly by people, that it makes all fellowship zip/zero. I want to keep my focus on the Lord and not the act of going to church because it's what we must do.

 

[Starcrystal]

^When I went through a similar thing (probably far more extreme) I totally disassociated myself from churches and most Christians. I spent a lot of time alone, with the Scriptures, and going into the woods to seek God in a natural environment unencumbered by man. I beleive God was able to speak to me more clearly there without the clutter of a million peoples voices and different opinions circulating around church traditions & doctrines.

 

[StevenL]

^When I went through a similar thing (probably far more extreme) I totally disassociated myself from churches and most Christians. I spent a lot of time alone, with the Scriptures, and going into the woods to seek God in a natural environment unencumbered by man. I beleive God was able to speak to me more clearly there without the clutter of a million peoples voices and different opinions circulating around church traditions & doctrines.

"Going to church" can cloud your view of everything you see in the Word. I didn't really begin to understand much until I got out of the atmosphere of denominational brainwashing and let the Spirit begin to speak to me directly from the Word. Ah, the Word Himself is Wonderful without the traditions of men hanging all over Him.

Of course it isn't a sin not to "go to church." Do what's written in the Scriptures and you'll do fine. Get together with some Saints and the Holy Spirit wherever that may be and encourage one another to be Holy and worship God in spirit and in Truth. The "go to church" thing can be nothing more than a guilt trip. "Going to church" as is done today is not commanded by anyone in the Bible.

 

[Tenorvoice]

It may not be a sin (or it may be we do not know only God does), All I have to say on the subject is something that our Youth Pastor mentioned a few weeks ago. Did you ever think that jsut because YOU are there @ Church that you may be an encouragment to someone else. Just you and your smiling face may be just the thing to keep others coming.

Just think, if everyone took the same attitude that we do not need to be in Church then all of the Pastors would not have anyone to preach to.


Just like you said, THE BIBLE SAYS that we are not to forsake the our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25

 

[muffler dragon]

It may not be a sin (or it may be we do not know only God does),

We'll just continue with the strong presumption that it is not since there is nowhere that says otherwise.

All I have to say on the subject is something that our Youth Pastor mentioned a few weeks ago. Did you ever think that jsut because YOU are there @ Church that you may be an encouragment to someone else. Just you and your smiling face may be just the thing to keep others coming.

I'm not quite sure how attendance encourages someone. But that's neither here nor there.

Just think, if everyone took the same attitude that we do not need to be in Church then all of the Pastors would not have anyone to preach to.

And this would be a bad thing? It might actually encourage to learn on their own.

Just like you said, THE BIBLE SAYS that we are not to forsake the our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25

I have no idea who 'you' is, but I figured I would respond anyways. Forsaking the assembly has nothing to do with not attending a particular church or denomination. It's a matter of turning your back on fellow believers. This understanding is a fairly significant difference.

Take care,

m.d.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I pretty much agree , m.d. .

 

[All4THALORD]

I think the question shouldn't be whether or not it is a sin but whether or not it is good for you.

For example, it's not a sin to go without sleep, but if you do it long enough your body just doesn't have what it needs to function properly.

Same with church. There is someting about the comeing together of believers for corporate worship that you just can't get anywhere else.

Pax Christi!

I love the example you used about sleep. It explains it very clearly.

 

[Tenorvoice]

This is staight from Matthew Henry's Commentary on Hebrews 10:25 and just about every other commentary that I have found says about the same thing on the subject of Not forsaking the gathering of belivers. :

2. Not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, Heb. 10:25. It is the will of Christ that his disciples should assemble together, sometimes more privately for conference and prayer, and in public for hearing and joining in all the ordinances of gospel worship. There were in the apostles’ times, and should be in every age, Christian assemblies for the worship of God, and for mutual edification. And it seems even in those times there were some who forsook these assemblies, and so began to apostatize from religion itself. The communion of saints is a great help and privilege, and a good means of steadiness and perseverance; hereby their hearts and hands are mutually strengthened.

And this is from Zondervan's NIV commentary:
25 The exhortation in this verse belongs grammatically with v.24, rather than functions as an independent exhortation. Some believers were giving up "meeting together." We have no way of knowing who these abstainers were; we know no more than that the early church had its problems with people who stayed away from church. It was a dangerous practice for any early Christian to try to live without the support of the community. Perhaps these abstainers saw Christianity as just another religion to be patronized or left alone. They had missed the finality on which the author lays such stress.

The writer goes on to suggest that Christians ought to be exhorting one another, and all the more as they see "the Day" getting near. Most certainly this Day is the Day of Judgment. The main thing is that the writer is stressing the accountability of his readers. They must act toward their fellow believers as those who will give account of themselves to God.

So as you can clearly see this verse is saying that we are to gather together and Worship God as a GROUP of belivers.

 

[New_Wineskin]

This is staight from Matthew Henry's Commentary on Hebrews 10:25 and just about every other commentary that I have found says about the same thing on the subject of Not forsaking the gathering of belivers. :

2. Not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, Heb. 10:25. It is the will of Christ that his disciples should assemble together, sometimes more privately for conference and prayer, and in public for hearing and joining in all the ordinances of gospel worship. There were in the apostles’ times, and should be in every age, Christian assemblies for the worship of God, and for mutual edification. And it seems even in those times there were some who forsook these assemblies, and so began to apostatize from religion itself. The communion of saints is a great help and privilege, and a good means of steadiness and perseverance; hereby their hearts and hands are mutually strengthened.

And this is from Zondervan's NIV commentary:
25 The exhortation in this verse belongs grammatically with v.24, rather than functions as an independent exhortation. Some believers were giving up "meeting together." We have no way of knowing who these abstainers were; we know no more than that the early church had its problems with people who stayed away from church. It was a dangerous practice for any early Christian to try to live without the support of the community. Perhaps these abstainers saw Christianity as just another religion to be patronized or left alone. They had missed the finality on which the author lays such stress.

While both commentaries are based on handed down traditions , the NIV does a slightly better job . But , both interpretations are extremely broad for using one sentence in the middle of a passage .

Does the passage from where that sentence comes indicate *how* the people were "forsaking" ? No . Does it state what an "assembly" is , how often they were being held , that it is a requirement for anyone ? No , no , no . A law must be clear . In what way were these "some" forsaking ? It doesn't say . What is the punishment for doing so ? Doesn't say . In fact , using this sentence in the way that it has been used is a direct contradiction to one of the main themes of the letter from which it comes .

If someone wants to obey this law of "not forsaking" , then , any time that one knows of any Christian assembly that one can attend and does not , is forsaking . If one is going to an meeting and passes another along the way , *that* is forsaking . The very idea of being a "member" of a group and not meeting with others in the same way as that group is forsaking in the most clear way .

The writer goes on to suggest that Christians ought to be exhorting one another, and all the more as they see "the Day" getting near. Most certainly this Day is the Day of Judgment. The main thing is that the writer is stressing the accountability of his readers. They must act toward their fellow believers as those who will give account of themselves to God.

So as you can clearly see this verse is saying that we are to gather together and Worship God as a GROUP of belivers.

In what way does this verse say that *we are* to gather ? If you are allowed to choose which way you obey this sentence for the sake of obtaining righteousness , all are allowed to choose which way they obey it .

 

[muffler dragon]

I, honestly, can't believe that New Wineskin and I are having to have this type of discussion with people.

Here's the deal, Tenorvoice, in case you haven't read my posts elsewhere:

G-d called me out of the 'organized' church. Whether you can accept that or not, I don't care. My first goal in life is to be obedient to G-d and man second.

As for the commentaries you have presented, neither of them is substantiating their beliefs with a historical context. As New Wineskin has alluded to above, neither commentary says what is and what is not acceptable.

Furthermore, commentaries are a second-hand source of information at best. They are determined and written by people that will have a particular bent or bias. One thing that I think would be beneficial for the situation is for you to do me a favor: if you're going to call me out as someone who is in sin, because I am not attending an 'organized' church; then do so. If you decide to go this route, then I further suggest that you add some meat to the argument to make it stick.

Forsaking the assembly would be seen in a number of different ways:

1) dismissing people, who believe in G-d, when they are in need.
2) becoming an athiest.
3) causing disharmony or disrupting the growth and beliefs of others.

Where I am at in my walk with G-d does none of the above. My faith has grown more from not being under a 'pastor/reverend/minister/bishop/whatever'. I have learned more from laypeople on this forum and others as well as from reading books. My reliance on G-d in trust has multiplied in conjuction with my faith. He shows me the things He wants me to do, and I try to follow.

Since this thread has nothing to do with testimony time of m.d. I am going to discontinue this tirade.

But one thing that I find interesting is reading Sha'ul's words in Galatians:

Galatians 1
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and (32) called me through His grace, was pleased
16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might (33) preach Him among the Gentiles, (34) I did not immediately consult with (35) flesh and blood,
17 (36) nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to (37) Damascus.
18 Then (38) three years later I went up (39) to Jerusalem to become acquainted with (40) Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.
19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except (41) James, the Lord's brother.
20 (Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you (42) before God that I am not lying.)
21 Then (43) I went into the regions of (44) Syria and (45) Cilicia.
22 I was still unknown by sight to (46) the churches of Judea which were (47) in Christ;
23 but only, they kept hearing, "He who once persecuted us is now preaching (48) the faith which he once (49) tried to destroy."
24 And they (50) were glorifying God because of me.

Galatians 2
1 Then after an interval of fourteen years I (1) went up again to Jerusalem with (2) Barnabas, taking (3) Titus along also.

During Sha'ul's 17 years of not attending an 'organized' church, do you think that he was forsaking the assembly?

Take care,

m.d.

 

[newname]

Jesus Christ says "follow me"

there is a season for everything,

remember when Paul did not see any of the other teachers or apostles for three years, he was being taught by God,

we are under govorners and tutors for a season,

at the appointed time, we are no longer taught by man, IF you keep the commandments of God,

most do not hear this, but this is to those who do,

trust God and His ability to guide you in the "right" direction,

speaking truth by the Holy Spirit,
newname

 

[SkyAngel]

**

 

[gailmac]

Why does it take a church building and a pastor to put a smile on someones face? I am a nurse. I going into homes all day and help people. I put smiles on their face, but I didn't have to be at church.]