Is masturbation a sin?

[Pteriax]

There are lots of immoral things that are not specifically mentioned in the bible. The bible establishes principles which teach us how to judge all things. It is impossible to mention every conceivable thing that people could ever come up with.

Nope. The Bible is quite exhaustive when it comes to lists of right and wrong. As I said, lust is a sin, so masturbation is a sin if you lust during it. Anything else is pure conjecture and not Biblical.

 

[wrexsti]

Nope. The Bible is quite exhaustive when it comes to lists of right and wrong. As I said, lust is a sin, so masturbation is a sin if you lust during it. Anything else is pure conjecture and not Biblical.

So masturbation is not selfish, and not intended for self pleasure only, and not an exploit of God's divine design of procreation?

 

[Pteriax]

So masturbation is not selfish, and not intended for self pleasure only, and not an exploit of God's divine design of procreation?

It can be selfish, depending on the attitude of the person. Then it could be a sin.

Where is pleasure condemned in the Bible, chapter and verse please?

It has no effect on procreation one way or another, so no.

 

[wrexsti]

It can be selfish, depending on the attitude of the person. Then it could be a sin.

Where is pleasure condemned in the Bible, chapter and verse please?

It has no effect on procreation one way or another, so no.

Your reasoning is so flawed!
So using your reasoning, if I get pleasure from a sinful act, its not a sin?
So if I get pleasure from viewing inappropriate contentography that makes it ok with God to get pleasure from it...?

Romans 13
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

 

[Pteriax]

Your reasoning is so flawed!
So using your reasoning, if I get pleasure from a sinful act, its not a sin?
So if I get pleasure from viewing inappropriate contentography that makes it ok with God to get pleasure from it...?

Romans 13
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Not at all, you are assuming the act of masturbation itself is sinful and it is not. Elements of it are sinful, such as lust, but the act itself is not. Getting pleasure from a non-sinful act is not a sin; that is what I said.

Romans 13:13-14 NASB
(context always helps)
Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

You see the preceding verse explicitly states which fleshly lusts that we are to make no provision for! And go figure, masturbation isn't one of them... Taking the Bible out of context is never a good way to prove a point. The truth works so much better.

 

[wrexsti]

Not at all, you are assuming the act of masturbation itself is sinful and it is not. Elements of it are sinful, such as lust, but the act itself is not. Getting pleasure from a non-sinful act is not a sin; that is what I said.

Romans 13:13-14 NASB
(context always helps)
Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

You see the preceding verse explicitly states which fleshly lusts that we are to make no provision for! And go figure, masturbation isn't one of them... Taking the Bible out of context is never a good way to prove a point. The truth works so much better.

Romans 6
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

given these verses, How does using your penis to touch make you righteous?

 

[wrexsti]

It has no effect on procreation one way or another, so no.

How?

 

[Pteriax]

Romans 6
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

given these verses, How does using your penis to touch make you righteous?

"Let not sin..." You have got to establish that the Bible clearly states masturbation to be a sin for this to even apply to it. This could refer to anything without context, it does not even specify sexual passions over any others. How does eating a ham sandwich make you righteous? I mean looking this up in context shows that it applies to all sin, not any specific kind of sin, and we know what is sinful by what the Bible says specifically is sinful, such as lust. If you lustfully eat a ham sandwich it would be a sin because of the lust.

 

[Pteriax]

How?

What possible effect do you think masturbation could have on procreation? It cannot make you infertile. It cannot make you less likely to impregnate your wife. Every sperm is not a separate life since millions die every time you have intercourse, even if a child is conceived. So you tell me, how can it possibly affect procreation in any way? And if so, where is it in the Bible - chapter and verse please.

 

[wrexsti]

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

So Masturbation is not a desire of the flesh?

 

[wrexsti]

What possible effect do you think masturbation could have on procreation? It cannot make you infertile. It cannot make you less likely to impregnate your wife. Every sperm is not a separate life since millions die every time you have intercourse, even if a child is conceived. So you tell me, how can it possibly affect procreation in any way? And if so, where is it in the Bible - chapter and verse please.

As per God's divine design, men's sperm is intended to meet a woman's egg for procreation... not a towel or a sock or whatever else.

Going against God's design is not an act of rebellion?

 

[Johnnz]

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

So Masturbation is not a desire of the flesh?

I suspect you may be confusing Paul's more technical use of 'flesh' meaning life outside of Christ and the the Spirit, with normal, human physicality. The latter becomes 'flesh' when a moral principle is violated, but only then.

John
NZ

 

[Pteriax]

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

So Masturbation is not a desire of the flesh?

Desires of the flesh are anything the fallen sinful man desires apart from God. It could be a ham sandwich. In context he is clearly talking about sinful desires, since the desire to be intimate with your spouse is clearly not a sin, yet could be considered a desire of the flesh. Again, this only means masturbation if that is what you are determined to make it mean. It does not say that. It is not included if it is not sinful. Show me where it is sinful specifically. Lust is a desire of the flesh. Lustful masturbation therefore is clearly a sin based on this text, since lust is specifically mentioned as a kind of sin in scripture.

 

[Pteriax]

As per God's divine design, men's sperm is intended to meet a woman's egg for procreation... not a towel or a sock or whatever else.

Going against God's design is not an act of rebellion?

So are you claiming that recreational sex (not to conceive a child) between a married man and woman is an act of rebellion? Because that seems to be an implication if you are right. I don't think you are right, I am just pointing out a problem with your logic here.

 

[wrexsti]

I suspect you may be confusing Paul's more technical use of 'flesh' meaning life outside of Christ and the the Spirit, with normal, human physicality. The latter becomes 'flesh' when a moral principle is violated, but only then.

John
NZ

If I understand you correctly, Paul's use of the word "Flesh" more similarly means "World" or even "Mortal"?


But if that were so, his use of the word Flesh would take multiple meanings as he uses Mortal, world, and flesh in many other letters.
So logically, they would all have different meanings to him.
Which leads me to believe he meant literally means flesh as in perishable, dust of the earth, human bodies.

He would used better words as he used in other letters, such as mortal and world, to take on your translation.
Because using your logic, if he intends flesh as a different meaning (your meaning), this following verse would make no sense:
because his use and his definition of flesh would not have been used if a better word could have been used, in using the definition of flesh from Paul's other letters.

Colossians 2
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

 

[wrexsti]

So are you claiming that recreational sex (not to conceive a child) between a married man and woman is an act of rebellion? Because that seems to be an implication if you are right. I don't think you are right, I am just pointing out a problem with your logic here.

I do believe that to be sinful: sex without the intent of conception.
You would be using sex, a gift from God, for your own selfish desires.
God wants us to multiply on this earth and subdue it.

In my opinion, sex without intention of conceiving a child would have no sin attached to it if at one point either spouse became infertile.
I would assume that is God's way of saying, you did your job now have fun!

 

[wrexsti]

Desires of the flesh are anything the fallen sinful man desires apart from God. It could be a ham sandwich. In context he is clearly talking about sinful desires, since the desire to be intimate with your spouse is clearly not a sin, yet could be considered a desire of the flesh. Again, this only means masturbation if that is what you are determined to make it mean. It does not say that. It is not included if it is not sinful. Show me where it is sinful specifically. Lust is a desire of the flesh. Lustful masturbation therefore is clearly a sin based on this text, since lust is specifically mentioned as a kind of sin in scripture.

But what draws you to your spouse?
Your boner or your God-given desire to become one with them?
Intimacy with a spouse is a God-given desire, not a desire of the flesh.
But intimacy with yourself, masturbation, is a selfish and rebellious act against God's design.

 

[Pteriax]

I do believe that to be sinful: sex without the intent of conception.
You would be using sex, a gift from God, for your own selfish desires.
God wants us to multiply on this earth and subdue it.

In my opinion, sex without intention of conceiving a child would have no sin attached to it if at one point either spouse became infertile.
I would assume that is God's way of saying, you did your job now have fun!

But when a woman is pregnant or nursing, she cannot conceive, and you are suggesting that married couples should therefore only have sex once every two or so years, and anything else would be selfish and rebellious. If that were so, the Bible would say as much. Exodus 20 - the end of Leviticus is a solid chunk of rules and laws, many of which are very minor. If something like what you are suggesting were true it would be listed among those verses. God does not simply gloss over things that important, He tells us, and then tells us again what to do and what not to do. It simply is not in the Bible. If you want to live as a monk or be celibate, that is your choice, and Paul made that choice, but please do not tell people it is sinful to do otherwise because that is a misrepresentation of the Word of God. He designed us they way we are for a reason. If He wanted us to have sex only for procreation, He could have simply made it impossible to do otherwise, or non pleasurable anyways. The intimacy it builds between a married couple and the strength it can add to a godly marriage demonstrates intercourse apart from procreation is good. And again, you cannot simply declare it sinful, the Bible must declare it sinful. And it does not.

 

[Pteriax]

But what draws you to your spouse?
Your boner or your God-given desire to become one with them?
Intimacy with a spouse is a God-given desire, not a desire of the flesh.
But intimacy with yourself, masturbation, is a selfish and rebellious act against God's design.

You mean with me, or with couples in general? Because a lot of people start their relationship with a boner. lol. In fact many godly couples in the OT married because they were physically attracted to them, and only grew in intimacy later on. And unless the Bible declares it a sin and a rebellion, it is not. You are assuming all those things: selfish (can be but not always, not supported by the Bible) rebellious (an assumption not supported by the Bible) act against God's design (an assumption not supported by the Bible). See the pattern here?

 

[wrexsti]

But when a woman is pregnant or nursing, she cannot conceive, and you are suggesting that married couples should therefore only have sex once every two or so years, and anything else would be selfish and rebellious. If that were so, the Bible would say as much. Exodus 20 - the end of Leviticus is a solid chunk of rules and laws, many of which are very minor. If something like what you are suggesting were true it would be listed among those verses. God does not simply gloss over things that important, He tells us, and then tells us again what to do and what not to do. It simply is not in the Bible. If you want to live as a monk or be celibate, that is your choice, and Paul made that choice, but please do not tell people it is sinful to do otherwise because that is a misrepresentation of the Word of God. He designed us they way we are for a reason. If He wanted us to have sex only for procreation, He could have simply made it impossible to do otherwise, or non pleasurable anyways. The intimacy it builds between a married couple and the strength it can add to a godly marriage demonstrates intercourse apart from procreation is good. And again, you cannot simply declare it sinful, the Bible must declare it sinful. And it does not.

So using your logic of "if it's not explicitly stated in the Bible it doesn't exist" such as masturbation, Where did Cain get his wife from?

Leviticus 15
16 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
18 The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.

Now what would "unclean" mean?
Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before , as I have also told you in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

[/THREAD]

I don't think this can be argued any further.
Masturbation is a sin.

That doesn't go without saying that your sins are forgiven by God's grace through Jesus Christ.