Is Jesus' Story Unique?

[ebia]

Where is he? Where is his physical flesh and blood? Show me the blood cells and the skin cells.

From my understanding, Christians believe that he resurrected in the flesh after 3 days and then ascended into heaven at some point after that. But he is not still physically walking around on Earth.

Shirdi SaiBaba

Essentially this describes the "resurrection". He was medically considered dead for three days: no pulse, no breathing. Then he came back to life. Its not the same as Jesus' resurrection. As I say in my OP, it doesn't occur by crucifixion.

There are other differences too. Sai Baba "resurrected" in the 1890s but then continued living until his second physical "death" in 1918 when he died and "gave up his body so that his Spirit may be resurrected in the hearts of [his followers]." Link

The language used to describe it is remarkably similar. People "accept the risen Jesus into their hearts" in a similar fashion.Link

Jesus is viewed as "spiritually alive" but no longer "physically alive".

The whole point of the Christian understanding of resurrection is that Jesus is physically and bodily alive, but in heaven not in earth. His is a going through death and out the other side into new, glorified, but still physical bodily life.

That's fundamental to historic Christianity - it's the hinge upon which everything else hangs. And so we have found out why the Sai Baba claims are not remotely of the same order even if they were true.

 

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FALSE. I'm surprised you don't recognize that! THIS is what our Faith is based on.

I'm also surprised I haven't recognized this.

Not to be offensive, but this seems to make the Christian claims even more difficult to possibly believe. You're saying that Christians believe that Jesus' physical body is alive somewhere.

You're saying that his physical, Middle-Eastern body is alive "somewhere" with a beating pulse, brain activity, functioning cells etc. In order for those physical components of his body to function, they need to be given physical food and water. His physical body, as a biological organism, needs to have sleep and rest.

This is how I define a physical organism known as a human being. Any other definition must, by definition, be considered spiritual, "the soul" or "the mind".

To me, the definition of physical means that it is composed of atoms and governed by atomic and electromagnetic forces.

I believe non-physical things exist which are not governed by those forces and are not composed of atoms. The mind, consciousness, the soul, heaven, God, the Holy Spirit etc all fall into this category. I have always thought the "Living Christ" referred to Jesus' spiritual alive-ness.

If you are claiming Jesus' body exists in heaven and is composed of atoms, I find this exceedingly hard to believe.

 

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The whole point of the Christian understanding of resurrection is that Jesus is physically and bodily alive, but in heaven not in earth. His is a going through death and out the other side into new, glorified, but still physical bodily life.

That's fundamental to historic Christianity - it's the hinge upon which everything else hangs. And so we have found out why the Sai Baba claims are not remotely of the same order even if they were true.

See my post to Ray

 

[ebia]

I'm also surprised I haven't recognized this.

Not to be offensive, but this seems to make the Christian claims even more difficult to possibly believe. You're saying that Christians believe that Jesus' physical body is alive somewhere.

You're saying that his physical, Middle-Eastern body is alive "somewhere" with a beating pulse, brain activity, functioning cells etc. In order for those physical components of his body to function, they need to be given physical food and water. His physical body, as a biological organism, needs to have sleep and rest.

This is how I define a physical organism known as a human being. Any other definition must, by definition, be considered spiritual, "the soul" or "the mind".

To me, the definition of physical means that it is composed of atoms and governed by atomic and electromagnetic forces.

I believe non-physical things exist which are not governed by those forces and are not composed of atoms. The mind, consciousness, the soul, heaven, God, the Holy Spirit etc all fall into this category. I have always thought the "Living Christ" referred to Jesus' spiritual alive-ness.

If you are claiming Jesus' body exists in heaven and is composed of atoms, I find this exceedingly hard to believe.

It's the physicality of the New Creation, not the old, and therefore the physical norms it's following are somewhat different. For a discussion of what that might mean I would suggest "The God of Hope and the End of the World" by theologian and physicist John Polkinghorne.


But yes, it's completely physical.

 

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It's the physicality of the New Creation, not the old, and therefore the physical norms it's following are somewhat different. For a discussion of what that might mean I would suggest "The God of Hope and the End of the World" by theologian and physicist John Polkinghorne.


But yes, it's completely physical.

Woah wait. We were talking about Jesus' physical body. I wasn't talking about a New Creation-physicality.

What does the "physicality of the New Creation" even mean?

I was talking about Jesus' physical body still existing, functioning and being alive as a physical organism. That is what "physically alive" means: neurons firing, heart beating, cells growing and dying, etc.

What is your definition for a being to be "physically alive"?

 

[ebia]

Woah wait. We were talking about Jesus' physical body. I wasn't talking about a New Creation-physicality.

What does the "physicality of the New Creation" even mean?

I was talking about Jesus' physical body still existing, functioning and being alive as a physical organism. That is what "physically alive" means: neurons firing, heart beating, cells growing and dying, etc.

What is your definition for a being to be "physically alive"?

You can't separate Jesus resurrection from New Creation. That's what the resurrection stories try to get across. This is not a spiritual/ghostly existence - it's physical. Jesus can be touched. He eats - and cooks fish for the others. And yet he can walk through walls. He can be mistaken for someone else - and yet it is totally different. "They dare not ask who it was because they knew it was the Lord" (a very strange statement).

To try to translate what the evangelists can't adequately describe even in their terms into scientific terms is beyond what we have data for - though if you're interested in pursuing speculation in that regard see the Polkinghorne book I recommended. What we do know us that this is some kind of bodily physical existence with both continuity and discontinuity with current existence.

It's not a disembodied non-physical existence. That's a dualism that's antithetical to everything the Judeo-Christian story is all about: God bringing about the restoration and completion of his physical creation.