Is Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament?

[doubtingmerle]

This question came up in another thread, and perhaps, instead of hijacking that thread, we can discuss it here. Was Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament? Arguably, it could be said he was. I turn to the Setuagint, the Greek translation that the New Testament writers relied on. There we read:

Zech 6:11 And thou shalt take silver and gold, and make crowns, and thou shalt put them upon the head of Jesus the son of Josedec the high priest; 12 and thou shalt say to him, Thus saith the Lord Almighty; Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall spring up from his stem, and build the house of the Lord. 13 And he shall receive power, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and there shall be a priest on his right hand, and a peaceable counsel shall be between them both. 14 And the crown shall be to them that wait patiently, and to the useful men of the captivity, and to them that have known it, and for the favour of the son of Sophonias, and for a psalm in the house of the Lord. 15 And they that are far from them shall come and build in the house of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you: and this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord your God. [http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Zacharias/index.htm ]
​

Interestingly, the Hebrew "Joshua" here is transliterated to the Greek "Jesus". "Jesus, son of Josedec" is not far from Jesus, son of Joseph. And this Jesus wears a crown, has power, sits on the throne with peacable counsel, and brings those that are far to the house of the lord. Sound familiar?

I am not saying that Zecahariah was prophesying of a future Jesus. He was probably talking about a Jesus (Hebrew Joshua) in his own time. Likewise Psalms 22, Daniel 9, and Isaiah 53 were not talking about a future Jesus. They were talking about events happening in the here and now for those writers. But somehow those passages got interpreted as prophesies of a far off savior.

Could it be that proto Christians combined Zech 6 with passages like Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22 to build the story of a dying savior god named Jesus similar to other saviors in the Roman empire? Could it be that the Jesus of Peter and Paul was nothing more than the imagination of people who "found" Jesus in such Old Testament passages?

 

[MWood]

God told Moses about Jesus back in Exodus, and was repeated again in Deut. The prophets, starting with Samuel and all the prophets that followed after Samuel prophesied Jesus. Everything from His virgin birth to His ascension. If you have read the prophesies you will recognize them when you read the four Gospels. King David wrote about Jesus in His psalms. Oh yeah, Jesus is talked about in the Old Testament.

 

[doubtingmerle]

God told Moses about Jesus back in Exodus, and was repeated again in Deut. The prophets, starting with Samuel and all the prophets that followed after Samuel prophesied Jesus. Everything from His virgin birth to His ascension. If you have read the prophesies you will recognize them when you read the four Gospels. King David wrote about Jesus in His psalms. Oh yeah, Jesus is talked about in the Old Testament.

To those with an active imagination, perhaps. When I read the Old Testament, I find a lot of verses totally unrelated to Jesus, which are taken out of context to mean Jesus. Can you give me an example of one mention of Jesus in the Old Testament that struck you as impressive when reading it?

 

[Greg J.]

All the places that say or imply God would send a savior.

 

[doubtingmerle]

All the places that say or imply God would send a savior.

OK, but are there any of them which clearly apply to Jesus?

 

[MWood]

OK, but are there any of them which clearly apply to Jesus?

All of them.

 

[Greg J.]

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. (Matthew 16:15-17, 1984 NIV)

Christ is the English word for the Greek word transliterated as Christos which is what is used in place of the Hebrew word transliterated as mashiach, which in English is Messiah. It means "annointed one"/"chosen one" and is a reference to God's promised savior. If you believe the OT is inspired by God, but that the NT is not, then this is not the answer I would offer. The alternative, as far as I know, is to examine the OT prophecies about Jesus and how Jesus fulfilled them.

 

[Grafted In]

Jesus is the OT.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Jesus is the OT.

Have you ever read the Old Testament?

Because if you ever cast aside the stories people tell you, and read it for what it says, I don't think you will find anything there about Jesus.

 

[doubtingmerle]

All of them.

Can you please show me one place in the Old Testament where the passage is clearly talking about the future life of Jesus.

 

[doubtingmerle]

The alternative, as far as I know, is to examine the OT prophecies about Jesus and how Jesus fulfilled them.

When I read the Old Testament, I don't find anything that is clearly foretelling Jesus. What I find is a whole lot of passages which can be taken out of context to match the story that we have of Jesus.

And the story of Jesus seems to me to have been written to match this conglomeration of out of context references. Could it be that the story of Jesus was made up to match a set of passages, rather than being a record of what happened?

 

[Grafted In]

Have you ever read the Old Testament?

Because if you ever cast aside the stories people tell you, and read it for what it says, I don't think you will find anything there about Jesus.

Stories?
"In the beginning was The Word, And The Word was with God, and The Word was God."

 

[Grafted In]

Ooops. Read those profiles folks.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Stories?
"In the beginning was The Word, And The Word was with God, and The Word was God."

I don't think this answers my question. Let's try again: Have you ever read the entire Old Testament?

Because if you cast aside the interpretations you have been given, and read it for what it says, I think you will be surprised. The "prophesies" there about Jesus really aren't talking about Jesus.

 

[Grafted In]

I don't think this answers my question. Let's try again:

You keep trying it again all you want. You admittedly are not a Christian. If that be the case you have no understanding of Spiritual matters.
End of discussion.

 

[Greg J.]

When I read the Old Testament, I don't find anything that is clearly foretelling Jesus. What I find is a whole lot of passages which can be taken out of context to match the story that we have of Jesus.

And the story of Jesus seems to me to have been written to match this conglomeration of out of context references. Could it be that the story of Jesus was made up to match a set of passages, rather than being a record of what happened?

If you don't believe the OT, an answer to your question doesn't matter. If you believe the OT but not the NT, then read what Jews for Jesus have written (or talk to them). If you're looking for the truth, then you need to be willing to investigate many other things as well.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You keep trying it again all you want. You admittedly are not a Christian. If that be the case you have no understanding of Spiritual matters.
End of discussion.

Interesting. Because all I am asking is whether you have read all the Old Testament. You make claims about what is in the Old Testament, so it certainly seems reasonable to ask if you have read it.

By the way, I understand the meanings of the words "Yes" and "No". If you would attempt to answer the question, I think I would understand what you are saying. Try me, please. Have you read all the Old Testament?

 

[doubtingmerle]

If you don't believe the OT, an answer to your question doesn't matter. If you believe the OT but not the NT, then read what Jews for Jesus have written (or talk to them). If you're looking for the truth, then you need to be willing to investigate many other things as well.

Can we investigate it here?

The top of the screen says this section is reserved for outreach. I was expecting this outreach forum would be a place for interactive dialog. Are you saying we won't get dialog here, just links?

 

[Greg J.]

You are right. I'm just not the right person to follow that line of inquiry.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You are right. I'm just not the right person to follow that line of inquiry.

Oh good, I came to the right place.

Now I have seen the lists of Old Testament verses that some say are prophesying Jesus. But it seems more to me that these are basically verses about something else that have been combined and said to prophesying Jesus. Can you point to an Old Testament passage that you think is an impressive foretelling of Jesus?